While i did a run of Weeping city i noticed one of my healers was asking from our bard to use mage's ballad to the point where he started flaming him but nvm for that.
Then i noticed that both of my healers had 27k hp , ~13,2k max mp with tank accessories and Mind V melded. I suppose his piety was really low so that his mp can be drained so easily and to ask for Mage's Ballad.
Anyway is this actually viable? I got vote-kicked for telling him that he is wrong with this kind of setup and i became curious ever since.
Note: One of them was a conjurer and the other whm
Note: I never played healer classes
New WHM Meta???
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03-23-2017, 04:59 PMTallonOverworldNew WHM Meta???
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03-23-2017, 05:13 PMTaika
Idk might be they're trying to get through some Savage progression with extra Vitality (I've personally never done or understood that, especially at these current item levels). Their MP doesn't seem particularly low though, my WHM (i266) has 12360 max (I don't raid with it though, only Dun Scaith etc.). How come you didn't kick a Conjurer in Weeping City though? :D
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03-23-2017, 05:52 PMTallonOverworld
I was trying to select for vote dismiss but they were already voting to kick me lol :confused:
Maybe i got confused with this as piety is for max mp and mind for healing potency but i am perfectly sure this guy got his mana drained soooo fast. What's the point of having normal amounts of max mp and not being able to heal by a fair amount?? ( amount which you healers know more than me.)
I was just curious if someone uses this kind of setup and i was wrong... -
03-23-2017, 06:40 PMNeelawell it may not be the common way most of us are used to see but I have several let's say exotic builds as well - f.e. my parry drk, pure ss smn or piety brd. I remember a time I think it was between Gordios and Midas, where u met more and more first cls farming proto-gear or anima-upgrade material just for fun. u know all those xcross skill the first cls are able to use could be pretty funny in the end. it's a rpg and without being mean... everybody can setup on his own desire, right? who are u to tell me that im wrong? maybe im "wrong" on purpose - like those healers you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallonOverworld
kicking people without job-crystal just because of that is a thing i can't understand. if they really hold you down okay, but if they handle their task okay-ish there is no reason for being bully... and if you run with a Brd who isnt aware of the healers mp status and won't play the song automatically without being asked for it - blame the unmotivated/lazy Brd not the Healer/Caster. :o
edit: i for myself was running arc and stuff as carbuncle-arcanist as well more than once - before we got the egi glam, it was really fun though :3 -
03-23-2017, 10:00 PMGhishlain
13.2K MP isn't the issue, it's the fact they're running VIT accessories with MND melds. While it's possible to do and not necessarily unviable, you're severely hampering your own Cure power and thus necessitating either more frequent cures, more powerful cures, or a combination of both and thus require more MP.
An i260 WHM will have 1,499 MND (ignore the fact we're doubling up Shire Rings for simplicity sake)
An i260 WHM with tank accessories melded with MND T5s will have 1,139 + (5 X 15) = 1,214 MND
The WHM in question with tank accessories is effectively healing at 80% the power of a WHM with the same ilvl running healing accessories. (1,214 / 1,499 = 80.99%) IE, they'll need to use five Cures when a "normal" WHM would only use four. As mentioned above, this would necessitate more frequent or more potent or a combination of both healing power and thus consume more MP. -
03-23-2017, 10:11 PMNeela
hmm true but - if the difference is 4:5 and he's running out of mp... the question might be if it's his fault cause he's just capable of 80% compared to a "standartbuild" or if the whole party just took to much dmg cause of failing mechanics... I don't get why grps with ilvl 260 or higher still have so much problems with arc 2 or arc 3... I don't think its a healer problem but more that people nowadays are overconfident and give a damn shit on mechanics or aoes. ^^
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03-23-2017, 10:50 PMExiled_Tonberry
Honestly? Sounds like trolls.
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03-23-2017, 11:32 PMNeela
why is everybody out of standard automatically a troll?
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03-23-2017, 11:49 PMSidaIf they are using a peculiar build knowingly, they must know they are, well, peculiar. As such they should be aware there will be people who will comment against it and straight out kicking the nay-sayer is not very constructive way to bring their point acros. Instead that should have explained why they are using build that goes against the common norm. Thus here their behaviour sounds more as persons who go in knowingly in odd set just to get a raise out of people to get some amusement of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neela
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03-23-2017, 11:57 PMNeela
hmm yeah but OP said he was trying to kick the first cls as well but was to slow... so he's not even better if we talk about attitude ^^'
But yeah you should at least get the chance to comment your build... sadly reality proofed that I were kicked 50% of my runs as carbuncle-arcanists right after the start without any word ^^
I don't complain about that because I know this com and am aware of the risk playing out of the norm - but somehow its really sad that a game which should be played for fun is given so many restrictions by their community itself... : ) -
03-24-2017, 12:10 AMExiled_Tonberry
You can do what you want, yes. But remember that this is a team based game.
Purposely holding your party back because you want to play Conjurer in Dun Scaith and constantly asking for others assistance because of this isn't very fair for others, don't you think? -
03-24-2017, 12:21 AMNeela
in general I would agree yeah if they really holding you back without even telling you why - its trolling. on the other hand like I said... people are overconfident nowadays if it comes to mechanics and if a grp where nearly everybody is above ilvl260 bring the healer out of mana... its most probably not the healers fault... and in this case it doesn't matter if its a common whm or a exotic fun conjurer build. ^^
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03-24-2017, 01:59 AMGhishlain
I missed the bit about a CNJ being in the party. I would call that a troll at that point, especially if you're complaining about MP. WHM's 51+ healing kits are either MP-free-healing and/or restore MP for the WHM so of course a WHM will have less MP issues than a CNJ. Take into account that a CNJ also has less MND then a WHM of equal gear level so their potency issues are even further exasperated too.
Even if people were running VIT accessories for "survival", melding VIT T5s into MND accessories would provide much more benefit than doing the reverse (VIT accessories w/ MND melds). No amount of HP will save you from party stack mechanics if no one does it properly and any individually-handled mechanic you can survive with the VIT you get from your gear in 250+ ilvl.
If we're talking PvP, that's another issue. I don't PvP but I have heard of VIT accessory healers to survive the damage bursts in PvP. Definitely not something to be used in non-savage-progression PvE content.
Lower healing potency can lead to deaths that are beyond a DPS' control. For example Scathach uses Thirty Souls back-to-back near the end of the fight with no other mechanics going out. If healer's aren't outputting enough HPS, people will die, thus leading to MORE MP being used for Raises.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neela
While some fault can attributed to missed mechanics, a player shouldn't be complaining about MP if they're not gearing properly in the first place as they themselves are at fault by making things more difficult as well. It's the pot calling the kettle black at that point. -
03-24-2017, 11:43 AMloreleidiangelo
CNJ = troll. Run of the mill WHM with vit accs = new/clueless, trying to skirt ilevel reqs for content by wearing higher ilevel gear meant for another role, or bizarrely, maybe just forgot to remove a set of PVP gear they had equipped (good healers generally use two or three fending accs in PVP). I have been known to do the third from time to time, but when politely critiqued for it in chat would swap back right away.
This game doesn't really offer a lot of variety in stat builds, so if you see someone who has melded sub-optimally or is wearing incorrect gear, just try to let them know as civil as you can. -
03-24-2017, 12:12 PMGunksFoy
If the Conjurer was running out of MP it's possibly because they don't have Regen, Assize, Tetra, Divine Seal, or Asylum. Regen and Asylum alone are massive heals and MP savers. If it was the WHM running out of MP, they were probably new/bad. Pretty sure I could heal Dun Scaith with only my left side gear and no right side at all without MP issues, but many WHMs don't know how to manage their MP properly.
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03-24-2017, 01:08 PMMimilu
Their Healer's item level was probably too low for Weeping, so they used Tank Accessories to fluff them up. :B
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03-24-2017, 09:06 PMTallonOverworld
thank god i was able to remember the name... http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/14513643/
Well nvm +1 for my bl, thanks for sharing your info -
03-24-2017, 11:52 PMloreleidiangeloThey're not a WHM because they never leveled ACN to 15...Quote:
Originally Posted by TallonOverworld
That was...not what I was anticipating, lol. I wonder if they simply have no idea how the job system actually works in this game? What kills me is that they've apparently done enough Dun Scaith to upgrade several of their left-side pieces, and STILL haven't bothered to unlock WHM or do the job quests. LMAO. -
03-25-2017, 12:00 AMGhishlainAt this point I'd say it's intentional since they have a full array of 60 DoH jobs. This is in vein of a permanent-LNC I know in passing whom was decently popular on Balmung. They did it as a challenge. I don't mind people doing things for personal challenge, but build your own groups to do that and don't take your intentionally gimped (for lack of better words) character and bog down my runs either.Quote:
Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo
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03-25-2017, 12:02 AMloreleidiangeloI didn't see the fully-leveled DoH; thanks for pointing that out. So yeah, seems like some kind of weird social litmus test to see just how much DF pugs will put up with so long as the run is completed, lol? Idk, I could see wanting to do CNJ-only as some kind of challenge, but why the fending accs then for any reason other than to irritate people in Duty Finder?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghishlain
Maybe they're trying to compensate for missing vit from lacking a job stone? Idk. -
03-25-2017, 12:06 AMAccelerating
N...no you can't tell people how to play y..you dirty elitists!!
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03-25-2017, 12:12 AMGhishlainIf the intent is to see "how long a Duty Finder run" can go, VIT accessories would probably be the way to go since then you could use the reasoning "But muh HP for survival!" to reduce the right side contribution without directly looking like they're trolling. 30K HP would be far too much HP for anything and if they were looking to optimize for survival, MND accessories with VIT melds should be more than enough for any content they'd be participating in.Quote:
Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo
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03-25-2017, 12:15 AMElleia
Yikes...I really think SE should start locking classes out of high level content and just require jobs, since they're looking into class removal anyways.
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03-26-2017, 05:23 AMbardabooThey probably don't roll on loot either so you can't boot them unless you are super fast after the next boss kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo
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03-26-2017, 03:47 PMJohaandrOMG ITS THE SAME DUDE I GOT IN PARTY WITH. we kicked him bcuse im a fairly good whm and new meta for whm aint working. Go for the norm, survive and manage ur own mp and dont ask for help. Otw you r a useless healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by TallonOverworld
Joke aside.
Yeah we gotten into party with him on dun scaith xD he gor locked behind the gate and we kicked him. -
03-27-2017, 05:39 PMNeelaactually this ^Quote:
Originally Posted by Accelerating
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03-28-2017, 04:31 AMenthauptet
There are some people that don't like "white mage" or whatever like "I want to be a conjurer" because the icon and name somehow affects their gameplay. Running more than vit melds or a vit ring is counterproductive in normal PVE. Even in savage no one would do that.
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03-30-2017, 04:55 PMNeelanow I can feel you even better.... I met both of them yesterday in a9s (via df) – the DDs refused to even get started for the first minutes, after a snapchat we tried a rush on Faust but wiped even before we bashed him down to 60%. I haven't scanned the whm but the conjurer was full ilvl270 (vit tank acc like Tallon said) except the weapon which was ilvl260. While the party was really confused one of the tanks scanned him even further and noticed that he didn't even had the job-crystal nor the 2nd cls to become whm at all. so uhm yeah... it was indeed a strange experience, never expected to see a first cls in "savage" ^^'Quote:
Originally Posted by TallonOverworld