A suggestion to improve Matron of the Fury

So I've gone into Fury about 6 times and went into Matron once. The thing that struck me the most was just HOW MUCH BETTER Matron was than Fury in terms of encouraging players to continue playing after the initial objective is completed.

Matron allows gatherers to more easily obtain mass amounts of materials normally locked behind very annoying specific timetables back in the Eorzean overworld, so people will continue gathering after the initial objective is complete. (Or rather, the real reward for completing the initial objective is access to the unspoiled nodes in lower Diadem, which also allows for very easy mass gathering of red/blue scrips along with elemental clusters - especially water clusters used in alchemy/cooking, which also happens to be the most annoying to gather compared to the other clusters.)

Fury in comparison seems to be very confused in execution. Fury only really has one guaranteed reward, and that's loaded into the completion of the initial objective. After that, it's all FATE spam for currency leading to RNG rewards, until a boss FATE spawns or the coveted Emergency Mission - of which nobody knows what the EM spawn condition even is, so most people in Fury these days have taken to going AFK or leaving immediately after the initial objective is completed. Those that leave immediately essentially get the guaranteed reward roughly ~50 minutes instead of every hour and a half, which is very backwards design and is outright exploitable abuse that shouldn't exist.

HOWEVER, at the same time, there is now a theory going around that every 10k Evaluation spawns the Emergency Mission, which means that being AFK actually stops the EM from spawning. And when the EM -does- spawn, those that leave cripple the groups that are still in the instance due to less members being around to participate.

Indeed, Evaluation being tied to EM spawn is a plausible theory, as doing anything at all increases Evaluation, not just spamming FATEs. And in the one Matron run I was in, there was someone who mentioned that in their previous Matron run, EM actually spawned twice - which only furthers the idea that Evaluation is tied to EM, since gatherers naturally appear to gain evaluation at a rate far faster than through combat (my Matron party gathered 2k evaluation while most Fury parties end with around 1k).

So the issue is, what can the developers do to make Fury more active? For now, there is one simple solution - have Fury continuously cycle through objectives after the initial one is completed. This would give players an incentive to stick around and actually continue to play, which would in theory lead to far more consistent EM spawns. And quite frankly, this is probably what most people thought was going to happen prior to new Diadem being released anyway, going off of what was said by staff beforehand - what better way to actually encourage exploration than this? (Evaluation rate in Fury should also be buffed, because if it is actually the key to spawning EM, the last thing anyone wants is for Fury players to just go full on gathering the entire time to make EM spawn faster.)

There are probably better solutions out there that can be added to this too, and if so, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: And now I just realized I completely screwed up the thread title. Well, at least you guys get what I mean.

A little bar that fills up as people in the zone gain evaluation would work. Just give people visual information that their efforts are contributing to the EM spawn and they'll do it. Probably.

Fates are shit anyway and the rewards are pathetic.

I Had some brainstorming but I think that probably won't happen for diadem, maybe for the next exploratory missions:
WHat if you could buy Items that if used on specific altars would summon bosses for you and What if this bosses gave you artifact gear?
What if the new hunting clan works with the guys in the diadem by offering some hunting quest where you can hunt a specific Enemy for a huge bounty?

I mean things that went on my head are mostly killing stuff and collect loots, but honestly this is what diadem was always thought to be about

I'd really like a counter of how many people are in the zone, emergency missions go pretty well in my experience but we lack the numbers to finish it on time (ive been to a mission twice now where we got the final lion to less then 20% and were kicked out, it looked like we had 3.3 parties (the .3 is my party as we only had 2 heals and 1 drg, got him to 10% that run)

A suggestion, allow vote kicks, the leeching is on my last nerve

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Originally Posted by Meirii

A suggestion, allow vote kicks, the leeching is on my last nerve

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The problem is if you miss the portal you have to wait until mission is complete to rejoin your party. Thus as to why I hate this revamping.

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Originally Posted by dragorian

The problem is if you miss the portal you have to wait until mission is complete to rejoin your party. Thus as to why I hate this revamping.

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I'm talking about people leeching when there are no EM up, just sitting at the spawn point being useless, if an EM popped everyone would be running to it.

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Originally Posted by Meirii

I'm talking about people leeching when there are no EM up, just sitting at the spawn point being useless, if an EM popped everyone would be running to it.

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I understand your sentiment but i also understand the counterargument. Dragorian is saying that if you miss the portal, or miss a fate or do anything that isn't with the parties plan that they haven't told you, vote kick.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I understand your sentiment but i also understand the counterargument. Dragorian is saying that if you miss the portal, or miss a fate or do anything that isn't with the parties plan that they haven't told you, vote kick.

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I'm not talking about kiddo's flying around or turning in things, my issue is with the peeps who never move.

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Originally Posted by Meirii

I'm not talking about kiddo's flying around or turning in things, my issue is with the peeps who never move.

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But the system can't tell the difference, I can see people getting kicked for both. The open ended nature of diadem means that people will go in different directions, and you could get kicked for not doing someone elses plan.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

But the system can't tell the difference, I can see people getting kicked for both. The open ended nature of diadem means that people will go in different directions, and you could get kicked for not doing someone elses plan.

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This. ^

I say in the beginning that I intend to gather once we're done with the objectives, and once in a while you get some uppity douche that gets all sensitive about "abandoning the party" because they wanted to grind more fates. :P Like dude, I'm drowning in Lockbox gear, I've got the mount and most of the boss minions, why should I waste my time? I have no doubt that these people would have kicked me if they could have, despite the fact that I helped complete the teamwork part of the instance. :P

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

This. ^

I say in the beginning that I intend to gather once we're done with the objectives, and once in a while you get some uppity douche that gets all sensitive about "abandoning the party" because they wanted to grind more fates. :P Like dude, I'm drowning in Lockbox gear, I've got the mount and most of the boss minions, why should I waste my time? I have no doubt that these people would have kicked me if they could have, despite the fact that I helped complete the teamwork part of the instance. :P

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Ya, in this sense, there isn't good incentive to do FATEs because the reward is very similar. I get why people leave after 30 mins, because you can get lockboxes quicker by just completing the objective again, so there is no point in staying.

In terms of minions there are 5 bosses + the other mini-boss we currently know about which drop the following:

Windup Aldgoat which can also be crafted

Windup Leviathan which can also be crafted

Hunting Hawk which is unique to Diadem but can also come from gold chest

Pegasus Colt 50 bronze coins which is a joke to get now

Paissa Brat which comes from Dragonskin Maps

Baby Brachiosaur which I think is the only new minion.

But this is what bugs me, why are the aldgoat and levi dropped here? I don't understand the logic of Leviathan dropping here to me those two are just lazy rewards. No joke, I would of put Assassin Fry instead of Levi and heck Dwarf Rabbit instead of Aldgoat cause let's be serious, that FATE is rather troublesome compared to the other 3 and yet the easiest of the 4 lower ones has the best minion drop, Hunting Hawk. . that just makes no sense lol.

Though honestly, it would of bugged me less if maybe the 4 lower FATEs has 3 variety of minions, a common one, uncommon and a rare one. The above could of been common, uncommon could of been something interesting and rare could of been interesting. or maybe even just 2 minion drops, but when the FATE drop from these are just rehashed older minions it just makes them disappointing. Because you want to fight these FATE bosses in hopes of obtaining something new, and then you are rewarded by minions which have been out for months and aren't even that tough to get in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Airget

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All very good points! Dwarf Rabbit and Assassin Fry would have been amazing. <3

tbh I sometimes do continue doing fates with the party, but only if they're people I enjoyed playing with. Most parties are just dead silent, and suck at working together (nothing worse than the impatient DPS that keep wiping the group 'cause they wanna pull everything in sight and think we're running unsynced 50 content), so hashing out some sort of coordination is painful even for the missions. :/ I just don't feel the need to intentionally inflict more of that on myself LOL.

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

All very good points!

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Question, if you wanted to gather then why didn't you enter Matron instead of Fury?

I agree that probably the rewards from FATEs need to be adjusted.
I do have the feeling they decided to go with this route to avoid ppl feeling forced to do FATEs, but honestly it kinda backfired, it is also true that they lowered the contribution required to get a gold medal from the FATEs to the point that even alone you can get gold from rank 3-star FATEs(which may also be a result of beign not as much ppl mind you).
I do have also the feeling that the kinda lackluster rewards from the lockboxes may come from how crafters went mad about the accursed hoards rewards from potd, even so I would either increase the gear dropped from those and/or the crystals sands items dropped. Honestly a gameplay like this (killing stuff to get gear with random stats) kinda trives when you get many items atm I think that it is a bit on the low end (about 10% drop rates)

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Question, if you wanted to gather then why didn't you enter Matron instead of Fury?

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This is me thinking out loud or questioning:

Regardless of Matron or Fury, all that changes is what you're rewarded for evaluation quests completed, correct? If that is correct, then someone who does not want steel spoils, and wants additional gear for turn ins, would want to queue under Fury. If someone does not want brass spoils, and would rather have steel spoils and gathering or crafting materia would queue under Matron.

This is running under the assumption that one Diadem is just one, giant, forever-going instance that simply rotate how many parties are inside, like it was before it was taken down.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

Question, if you wanted to gather then why didn't you enter Matron instead of Fury?

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tbh I never paid attention to the difference. I went with Fury because I wanted the spoils for mounts/etc and an FC mate said it was the one I should do. Just kept doing it because it's still very fun, just not when you get a bad party. X( Is Matron the one where you just queue in as DoL? Pretty sure I don't meet the ilvl if that's the case (running with over-melded 58 gear. Only a few points down from 60 gear, but that ilvl kills me).

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

tbh I never paid attention to the difference. I went with Fury because I wanted the spoils for mounts/etc and an FC mate said it was the one I should do. Just kept doing it because it's still very fun, just not when you get a bad party. X( Is Matron the one where you just queue in as DoL? Pretty sure I don't meet the ilvl if that's the case (running with over-melded 58 gear. Only a few points down from 60 gear, but that ilvl kills me).

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You still queue into Matron on battle classes. The difference is you can switch to a gatherer as soon as you enter the instance, the missions are all progressed by gathering instead of combat, and you receive Steel Spoils and crafting and gathering materia for completing the missions.