New diadem weapons invalidating any work from savage raiders and relic grinders

Im sure this will get lost in the flood of other posts complaining about the exact same thing but the release of the diadem weapons is ridiculous, especially considering the relics were officially completed only a week ago. One could argue the random stats will make up for it but getting +13 to the main stat alone is enough to cause concern let alone that the secondary stats get a total of 36 extra points distributed. All it takes is one good dice roll and suddenly you've invalidated weeks of grinding savage or weeks of grinding the relic. Of course no amount of complaining will fix this now because those that have been lucky enough to get lucky will feel cheated. Way to go square you basically ruined the balance of your game until SB launches.

relics are something beside glamour?

You do know hardly anyone will be getting these weapons right nor does it make the grinds/clears you've done worthless.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

relics are something beside glamour?

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.....they are about forging a legendary weapon that is always best in the end. No, the ARR one wasn't glam during relevant patch periods......

Getting a i280 weapon is like winning the weekly cacpot. It's like arguing that winning the lottery invalidates the effort everybody else did to save up the million MGP.

So don't bother getting one. Problem solved. Your weapon is still valid, no effort is wasted grinding for another. Until later, when there is another newer better weapon and you have to grind for that.

Did you expect your shiny to be the best thing ever forever and you would never have to put any effort in for anything else again?

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

So don't bother getting one. Problem solved. Your weapon is still valid, no effort is wasted grinding for another. Until later, when there is another newer better weapon and you have to grind for that.

Did you expect your shiny to be the best thing ever forever and you would never have to put any effort in for anything else again?

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Haha the drama! It's cute. <3

So many of the people who are defending il280 weapons seem angrier than the people who don't like them.

I think some people expected the ilv275 to last till the expansion. Of course some of us knew that they wouldn't last forever... since we've been around for awhile. I suppose we just didn't expect relic to last only 9 days before becoming second best again. xDDD

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Originally Posted by Elim

I think some people expected the ilv275 to last till the expansion. Of course, at least some of us, knew that they wouldn't last forever... since we've been around for awhile. I suppose we just didn't expect relic to last only 9 days. xDDD

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Relics/alex weapons will last a lot longer. Most people probably have a better chance at the Cactpot grand prize than getting a Diadem weapon.

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Originally Posted by alicetarkanian

Way to go square you basically ruined the balance of your game until SB launches.

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Omg , so dramatic (sorry, but thats ridiculous), do you really think that a 5 ilvl diference , and considering that you got a god roll ( which you can replicate , with slyght lower stats, with the anima) will ruin the balance?

And invalidated the savage gear? Are you kidding right?

So who cleared savage/ex now wont be able anymore? Do you think there will be people saying " ilvl280 wep only" for content?
i understand people feeling tricked(imo its just snowflake syndrome), but saying the game is unbalanced because of it, its a huge stretch.

Btw, theres like 2 hot topics going on about it, no need for this, but its not my problem.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Relics/alex weapons will last a lot longer. Most people probably have a better chance at the Cactpot grand prize than getting a Diadem weapon.

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That doesn't matter.

Relic is still not BiS. That's why some people are upset. I know it doesn't upset the white knights (Which I think are cute :3 gogo white knights!) but I understand the complaints.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

relics are something beside glamour?

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There's a reason why they're supposed to be one of the best out there. If not the best. At least stats are customizeable with this weapon as well.


@OP I'm sorry but the rarity of the i280 weapon doesn't really make me fret so much- this coming from someone who also worked to achieve their relic. Eventually, we'll get a relic step that will blow the i280 out of the water and make them obsolete. Although I can see where you're coming from, these weapons should not be commonplace.

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Originally Posted by Pireco

Omg , so dramatic (sorry, but thats ridiculous), do you really think that a 5 ilvl diference , and considering that you got a god roll ( which you can replicate , with slyght lower stats, with the anima) will ruin the balance?

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Some people compete for speed kills. A group getting a 280 or even more than one have a direct advantage over groups that don't. This advantage not only is quite big when it comes to speed kills, but its completly RNG factor prevents other teams from closing the gap via reliable means.

That may be completly anecdotal to you, but it's not for players who enjoyed that aspect of the game. So yes, for these players, the balance is broken.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Some people compete for speed kills. A group getting a 280 or more have a direct advantage over groups that don't. This advantage not only is quite big when it comes to speed kills, but its completly RNG factor prevents other teams from closing the gap via reliable means.

That may be completly anecdotal to you, but it's not for players who enjoyed that aspect of the game. So yes, for these players, the balance is broken.

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Ok, for the very small portion of speed runners i agree, so farm it, since thats your thing, but op stated the balance is broken in the game, which isnt by no means.

I just did the math using dervy's values, the whm cane from the other thread and my whm i275 anima, diference of 7%, ok, for speedrunners it will affect, but yes, stating that the balance is broken overall is just too much drama.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

So don't bother getting one. Problem solved. Your weapon is still valid, no effort is wasted grinding for another. Until later, when there is another newer better weapon and you have to grind for that.

Did you expect your shiny to be the best thing ever forever and you would never have to put any effort in for anything else again?

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For me its not so much about not having the best weapon anymore, I dont really care for that after all. Why am I still a little mad about this?
Because its the message behind this - and that message is a huge slap in the face of everyone who put effort into getting a relic or raid-weapon. There was no need to put an ilvl280 weapon into the game - even if its locked behind heavy RNG. And yet they did just, just days after people finished their relic-weapon that was supposed to be the best one you could get your hands on.
Yes, its still valid. Yes, getting the diadem one is winning the lottery. But at the same time it was not necessary to put that ilvl280 into the game at all!

So basically, the message I'm getting here is "Lol, nice that you bothered getting your relic and try raid, but we gonna throw better weapons in anyways!"

Oh come on, the relic/anima weapons are easy solo-content that just takes a little bit of time. No reason these should be the top weapons at all. Its solo content, and auto-win really. Whats hard about that?

I dont think the Diadem weapons should be the top, but its so incredibly rare to get one you can actually use, its likely not going to make much of a splash outside of faux forum outrage.

Frankly, best gear should ALWAYS be a privilege for beating the hardest couple of bosses/encounters in the game, in the raid format. Maybe a piece of accessory of BiS quality could be given to average players, but the relic shouldnt ever be the best weapon anyway.

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Originally Posted by Elim

That doesn't matter.

Relic is still not BiS. That's why some people are upset. I know it doesn't upset the white knights (Which I think are cute :3 gogo white knights!) but I understand the complaints.

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Relic will never be BIS again. The devs have admitted that making it BIS at the end of ARR was a mistake. It is never suppose to surpass the raid weapons.

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Originally Posted by Elim

Haha the drama! It's cute. <3

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I just think the whole thing is silly, really. But I'm nowhere near end game content, so my opinion might be void. I'm just back here enjoying the game and not worrying about what everybody else can have.

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Originally Posted by Pireco

Omg , so dramatic (sorry, but thats ridiculous), do you really think that a 5 ilvl diference , and considering that you got a god roll ( which you can replicate , with slyght lower stats, with the anima) will ruin the balance?

And invalidated the savage gear? Are you kidding right?

So who cleared savage/ex now wont be able anymore? Do you think there will be people saying " ilvl280 wep only" for content?
i understand people feeling tricked(imo its just snowflake syndrome), but saying the game is unbalanced because of it, its a huge stretch.

Btw, theres like 2 hot topics going on about it, no need for this, but its not my problem.

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It's more than just 5ilevel difference. Compare the Sephirot Axe and i230 Relic weapon. This one has 2WD, 13 stats and 160 sub stats more, that's alot and no one can deny that it is a huge jump compared to your usual 5ilevel jump.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

I just think the whole thing is silly, really. But I'm nowhere near end game content, so my opinion might be void. I'm just back here enjoying the game and not worrying about what everybody else can have.

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I mean sure you have your opinion I think everyone deserves to have their view on things but, even though I couldn't care less(I have worked on 5 relics) I can see why people would be angry. If you think of it from a logical stand point this isn't exactly the most ethical way to go about diadem. Reddit actually has a very good discussion going on, not people resorting to cheap" MY MENTOR STOLE MY I280" threads to derive joy by making fun of the people who are unhappy. Until you reached end game and have grinded for many patches for your weapon, Then I believe you might be able to understand the others alittle.

I'm really hoping this really their answer to keep their players playing because this design isn't extremely good if anything it is on par with the old diadem.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...utm_name=ffxiv

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Originally Posted by AureliusDraconium

Relic will never be BIS again. The devs have admitted that making it BIS at the end of ARR was a mistake. It is never suppose to surpass the raid weapons.

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Yes it is because he said that raid weapons will never be surpassed, it is the very reason why people are pissed off with this entire diadem thing.

Could people who say this is ridiculous and over dramatic could at least understand why we are so disappointed or angry ?
At least just one seconde.

Just understand the fact that, a lot of players have spent time on a weapon (relic), a lot, trought all the patch, to get the best existing weapon. The pride of having tha patience to do all of this, cause yes, it takes a lot of time.

Same goes for raiders, rewarded with a great weapon after all the time spent en killing "hard content" after a looot of tries.

Can you just, not sharing that opinion but understand that ALL these people are frustated to know that, they have put effort and time to get something, and Square Enix just spit on all of this by randomly giving to ANYONE who in diadem and succeed the mission, one of the best weapon?

So just please, before going on all these topics saying "people keep whining, oh this again, dramaaatic" and stuff, just THINK about why it somehow hurt to see that coming.
So thank you for understanding that fact.

Smells like a cheap ploy to keep people playing, hiding such good weapons behind a thick wall of RNG. I'm just amazed at the WD differences between relic/raid and Diadem items...obviously players will feel like their work is pointless if you can 'luck into' such a prize.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Could people who say this is ridiculous and over dramatic could at least understand why we are so disappointed or angry ?
At least just one seconde.

Just understand the fact that, a lot of players have spent time on a weapon (relic), a lot, trought all the patch, to get the best existing weapon. The pride of having tha patience to do all of this, cause yes, it takes a lot of time.

Same goes for raiders, rewarded with a great weapon after all the time spent en killing "hard content" after a looot of tries.

Can you just, not sharing that opinion but understand that ALL these people are frustated to know that, they have put effort and time to get something, and Square Enix just spit on all of this by randomly giving to ANYONE who in diadem and succeed the mission, one of the best weapon?

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I have 5 relics at 260, and 2 taken to 275. I think im in a pretty good position to say i dont care.

Saying Coven weapons invalidate Anima/Alexander is like saying Ornate gear invalidates crafting.

If Coven weapons are something you can obtain, then go get one, and get 3 lines on Wondrous Tails this week too.

I think they are very special prizes that almost nobody has and cannot be forced because luck is luck.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have 5 relics at 260, and 2 taken to 275. I think im in a pretty good position to say i dont care.

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I have 5 relics too 4 at i275, 1 at i260 and I raid. But I don't represent anyone nor anything. I'm not really affected by this either but it doesn't mean that I cannot see where the frustration and anger is steaming from. The issue with this forum is that everyone is so adamant on how they think, have you actually seen the reddit discussions? There are people here in the forum who have made very good points and those are the ones worth looking into and should be discussed.

I mean really if we went with that we can always throw in the overused reasoning like "Oh I pay for my subs I have every right".

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have 5 relics at 260, and 2 taken to 275. I think im in a pretty good position to say i dont care.

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Oh, look the I have x number of relics so this doesn't apply to me excuse again.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Can you just, not sharing that opinion but understand that ALL these people are frustated to know that, they have put effort and time to get something, and Square Enix just spit on all of this by randomly giving to ANYONE who in diadem and succeed the mission, one of the best weapon?

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To be blunt, I think you're playing the wrong game if that's what your argument is. FFXIV has a relentless treadmill where all that hard earned gear is invalidated or equaled at a pace I've never seen in any other MMO. We're at the end of not only this raid cycle but this expansion. There's no more relevant content coming out, players are going to begin unsubscribing as they wait for the expansion, the raids have been cleared for months, the catch-up mechanics are in-game, and all we're doing now is coasting towards Stormblood.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I have almost two decades of endgame experience across multiple MMOs (admittedly I've quit raiding since Heavensward), so I understand the push for status symbols and prestige, but your status symbol isn't diminished because a pink stat stick with RNG secondaries on it exists. Savage raiders have their Savage gear and weapons, their achievements, their mounts, and above all else their memories from clearing this content with friends as it came out. I think pinning the entire worth of your experience on a weapon alone is a bit shallow personally.

For what it's worth though, I don't really think the weapons need to be 280 either. Ultimately it doesn't affect me either way, but I mostly prefer to play devil's advocate whenever these discussions come up.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Oh, look the I have x number of relics so this doesn't apply to me excuse again.

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No, he said people should have relics before they say if they care

I have relics, and I dont care. If we cant say we dont care, then why can you say it bothers you?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No, he said people should have relics before they say if they care

I have relics, and I dont care. If we cant say we dont care, then why can you say it bothers you?

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What, that is not what he said. He said people could try to understand where these people are coming from. He didn't ask people to get the relic before they have an opinion.

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Originally Posted by OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN

What, that is not what he said. He said people could try to understand where these people are coming from. He didn't ask people to get the relic before they have an opinion.

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Meh. theres so much salt its hard to sift through. it wasnt worded very well. either way, its just a weapon few people will see, who cares \o/

Yep. Now they won't have BiS for all that raid content coming in a few weeks.....................Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Tsunenori

Savage raiders have their Savage gear and weapons, their achievements, their mounts, and above all else their memories from clearing this content with friends as it came out. I think pinning the entire worth of your experience on a weapon alone is a bit shallow personally.

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You said it perfectly. That's the mentality people need to enjoy this game. New content/items can't erase your experiences... it wasn't waste time if you had fun. Items are not everything.

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Originally Posted by Tsunenori

I don't really think the weapons need to be 280 either.

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It's interesting. We had no precedent for this; throws off the formula a little. If they were lower than other weapons, it wouldn't be as exciting to seek and the drop rate would need to be increased so more people could find them. As it stands, it's an ultimate luck prize like winning a lottery. When something is very rare and not guaranteed to ever drop for you, then its power should be special.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Meh. theres so much salt its hard to sift through. it wasnt worded very well. either way, its just a weapon few people will see, who cares \o/

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Granted but if you really don't care then you wouldn't be responding in that many threads. Forum is in a mess right now, sigh.

The 280 weapons are a 1% drop rate on a rare spawn boss so its not like our 275 weapons are going anywhere or will be useless. I have 4 alex weapons and 1 relic and I don't feel the need to go out and try to get 280 weapons. Rather wait until Stormblood comes out and get new weapons at level 70.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

It's interesting. We had no precedent for this; throws off the formula a little. If they were lower than other weapons, it wouldn't be as exciting to seek and the drop rate would need to be increased so more people could find them. As it stands, it's an ultimate luck prize like winning a lottery. When something is very rare and not guaranteed to ever drop for you, then its power should be special.

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It's like another poster said earlier in the thread, it'd be like me becoming upset that my HQ Ironworks gear that I spent all kinds of money and time overmelding is worth less because someone won the jackpot on the Wonderous Tails. Not only do I have the experience and memories and satisfaction of earning and crafting my gear myself but it has my name on it, which the ornate gear does not.

My Coil gear isn't worth less to me now because dyeable versions of it came out, and you can undersize for the regular versions. I still remember the thrill of that first T9 clear, I still remember the time I screwed up and left before taking my Healing Robe from T7 and it went to the floor, I still remember helping my new raid with their first T5 kill and asking them to trust me as I evasive jumped my conflag right into the wall by accident, etc.

I still have my trophies, and so do raiders and relic grinders. I also understand the argument of "these are still current but are being replaced" but I'm not feeling it personally just due to the fact that the expansion is, essentially, over. That's my perspective, anyway. I get where the frustration is coming from, but I just don't personally agree with it.

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Originally Posted by OMGAFLYINGPENGUIN

It's more than just 5ilevel difference. Compare the Sephirot Axe and i230 Relic weapon. This one has 2WD, 13 stats and 160 sub stats more, that's alot and no one can deny that it is a huge jump compared to your usual 5ilevel jump.

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You disconsidered the anima/ alex substat, it dont have 160 stat more lol, it CAN have 160 vs the other weapon substat, as i said in a previous post, 7% diference in values.

And just to be clear, i say its just drama to say it unbalanced the game while it havent, i can understand (while not agree) some people frustration .
I dont know if its relevant but i have one complete anima(whm), finishing light farm (ast) and some (drk, sch, smn, blm, war) in umbrite farm, and cant see how offensive that i280 weapon is, maybe if i had more lux weapons my opinion would change? Hardly.

The points of the matter is how fast SE introduced a higher ilv weapon when anima was just updated. It is unfair and frustrating, not being salty. I can understand eventually it will but come on, so soon? Even BEFORE we have the Shire weapon upgrade drop from Dun Scaith to 270? Now that is what causing people puzzled. When will we get the weapon upgrade drop from DS? It seems so unattractive now.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

If they were lower than other weapons, it wouldn't be as exciting to seek and the drop rate would need to be increased so more people could find them.

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Then maybe Diadem's design shouldn't have been made so fundamentally boring?

PotD didn't drop BiS stuff, but plenty of people still flocked to it.

Raiding has been shit this whole expansion because they invalidate all your farming with crafted gear and primal drops 10 ilvls higher. There's never been any reason to collect the savage weapons in Heavensward. It might be different if raid gear had anything unique about it other than "the stats that aren't on tomestone gear lol."

Too bad every question at every fanfest is from some Balmunghole who wants to know about mounts or glamour or housing.

diadem is the true raiding. ^^;

I was thinking, the rarity and item level of Coven weapons makes them maybe the first gear in the game that could make people think 'wow' when they see you with it.

Until now, pretty much everybody in the game was wearing the same gear as each other. Even savage weapons don't have much impact because you see dozens of people around idyllshire with the same savage weapons.

Coven are the first uber weapons to be rare and unique stats to each person. It's an old-school mmo kind of design where very few lucky people could have something special that other people are jealous of, instead of our usual model of fixed stat items that everybody can have a copy of if they meet skill/time check.

The drop of i280 weapons is purely to disguise the lack of innovation and interest in a content that was supposedly meant to be "revamped".

While I am pissed off that a better weapon exists over my relic and raid weapons in such a RNG / lottery based system - I am more pissed off that the whole Diadem "revamp" was simply the addition of FATEs and an alliance trial despite the endless negative feedback over the content to begin with..

They wouldn't have had to make the new Diadem drop i280 weapons if they made it remotely interesting or fun. It was an extremely lazy way of making people do the content.

They should have just kept the old Diadem, spend their resources on SB, and let people unsub for a while or do their own thing.