Allowing inviting players into duties

Scenario:
- FC member was at the final boss of Sohm Al (Hard).
- Their tank was vote dismissed for whatever reason
- Asks in fc chat if anyone would be able to select Join in-progress Sohm Al to fill the spot (because at 3.30AM waiting for a tank who had JIP enabled could take 20 mins or so)
- I do just that, but it seems the duty finder does not prioritise in-progress duties as I was put with a brand new party at the start as normal.
- FC member died in his chair while waiting for a tank. RIP not completely true

First things first: enable the FC window to be opened while in duties (same goes for friend list I think is also disabled)
Then: Allow right click "Invite to party", if person is not eligible (e.g wrong class/low ilvl) grey the option out
That player gets message "Join <name>'s duty in progress? Yes/no"

... and that should solve the problem of parties with open slots waiting a disproportionate amount time to finish what would take about 5 minutes.

I stopped playing with a friend on old server before i left
-tank we got was friendly, but decided to "brb" before final boss of dungeon
-friend gets him kicked to let FC mate Tank enter, just to get his expert roullette cleared
-i hit no other dps says yes, nice random tank dismissed
-fc tank buddy joins and finishes final boss with tome bonus.
-I tell friend i dont want to party with her anymore, this is like the 2nd or 3rd time this happened when the run was going fine

No thanks, its awful. Nice idea, but you kicked the tank "for whatever reason" in some cases it might be innocent, but seriously its flat wrong because it already gets abused

As someone who has been kicked just before the last boss of near-perfect speedruns (one time even getting the very clear explanation of "hey, our friend needs his daily...") from such abuse several times since 2.0, I'd still rather have this feature than not. Or at the very least, have in-progress prioritized over fresh runs, as it's only those runs that have long replacement times that would most warrant this addition, while those same runs would have the least need for a new invite system so long as in-progress groups were prioritized.

If we start seeing a higher prevalence of abuse after that, then maybe SE will finally allot some resources to making evidence of abuse more easily recordable. (E.g. how did progress fair against what would be "expected" for the party's gear level and the "active" time in the dungeon.)

@ADVSS
The OP clearly did not kick the tank she attempted to replace, nor does the reason being unknown to her "for whatever reason" mean it was arbitrary or less than would warrant a kick.

I'd say, open the option to invite players because a player either left the group or was kicked while offline (not "because offline", just when offline). That would prevent the abuse.
I guess there are also technical reasons this isn't a thing tho..

That would be a nice option to have, maybe one day we"ll get it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I stopped playing with a friend on old server before i left
-tank we got was friendly, but decided to "brb" before final boss of dungeon
-friend gets him kicked to let FC mate Tank enter, just to get his expert roullette cleared
-i hit no other dps says yes, nice random tank dismissed
-fc tank buddy joins and finishes final boss with tome bonus.
-I tell friend i dont want to party with her anymore, this is like the 2nd or 3rd time this happened when the run was going fine

No thanks, its awful. Nice idea, but you kicked the tank "for whatever reason" in some cases it might be innocent, but seriously its flat wrong because it already gets abused

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If it gets abused, then players should be reported and punished by GMs. Please do not deny a feature which would improve the system for everyone because of fear that it would be abused by a minority.

Also, I did not kick the tank.

Asked for this a long time ago. So it's something I'd support.

The worst case I remember a while ago is a friend asked in ls for someone to heal in progress the vault. Last boss. Someone on the ls joined but got a different party at the second boss. Someone else in ls triend and joined got an in progress party at the very beginning of the instance. I tried to join and got the same party the first guy got at the second boss. Who were complaining that the first guy bailed soon as he joined and I bailed right after. Lol.

So 3 people trying to help one guy out and all got dumped in different instances. So yeah definitely support an invite function.

I'd have to say no to this idea. It would prompt more players to abuse the vote kick function because they could invite their friend to join rather than chancing another random. There needs to be that level of unsureness that makes the player think they need to be prepared to take whatever they get, they don't need to be given complete control of what party they go into or randoms getting kicked in favor of friends will become a huge problem.

On the other hand I wouldn't mind an option to turn off joining at the start if you specifically want to join in progress.

I absolutely want something like this. My friend is always losing random party members (I don't think he drives them away deliberately!) and yet it's too risky to try joining to help even when I can since I don't really want to end up in some other party and have to clear a dungeon I never wanted to do in the first place.

If they would rather keep lists locked in a duty, just have an option on the Duty Finder window itself now we have that fancy window of checkboxes: 'Join an in-progress Duty with someone from your friend list'?

Issues I can think of are teaming up on someone as people have described, in which case have it so that the person who joined specifically as a 'helper' cannot use the clear for any roulette bonuses or story clears (to stop people leeching their friends through content). I don't mind getting no special rewards just to help out. And the option should probably be locked in PVP to stop some kind of elaborate evasion of the premade balancing they just added.

This thread.








Again

To all of the "no, people would kick to invite friend" crowd - if people want to play with their friend, they are likely to queue with them in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sora-Ta

If it gets abused, then players should be reported and punished by GMs....

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Kicking a player is a vote and it is a group valid decision, no one will be punished, filing a report just waste complainer's breathe as a real punishment.. ^^;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunspawn

To all of the "no, people would kick to invite friend" crowd - if people want to play with their friend, they are likely to queue with them in the first place.

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some FC buddies logging late or getting the nodes..etc when their friend start the duty. ^^;
In those 24men raids it is more frequent to happen, FC buddy just needs the 3rd boss drop etc... then boom after 2nd boss someone got replaced instantly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

some FC buddies logging late or getting the nodes..etc when their friend start the duty. ^^;
In those 24men raids it is more frequent to happen, FC buddy just needs the 3rd boss drop etc... then boom after 2nd boss someone got replaced instantly.

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It would still requier a majority vote on the kick, so I guess that the rest of the party was ok with doing it then?

I would love this function, as I often try to help friends out when someone drops or have to be kicked from a dungeon, but most of the time the DF just plops me into another group, or even one that wasn't even in progress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunspawn

To all of the "no, people would kick to invite friend" crowd - if people want to play with their friend, they are likely to queue with them in the first place.

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Then let them queue with their friends in the first place. Being able to direct your own replacements into your specific in-progress instance shouldn't be a thing.

I would have to say no to this feature because I can see the potential issues with it. If it was intended to be able to do that it would have been done at the start of the game.

There needs to be a level of balance and working with other unknown people to complete the duty, if they make it where you can invite people into your duty I can see it happening more often of people getting kicked because other friends logged on and need the duty you're in the process of an the odd person out gets the boot.

As for joining in progress groups I do believe it starts from the one that's been waiting the longest. There have been numerous duties I've done where someone has dropped right at the start of it because they didn't like the one they got dropped in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

There needs to be a level of balance and working with other unknown people to complete the duty, if they make it where you can invite people into your duty I can see it happening more often of people getting kicked because other friends logged on and need the duty you're in the process of an the odd person out gets the boot.

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This is easily avoidable through making the options previously suggested, though, whereas it's a very real possibility that you have to abandon an attempt entirely if you can't find a replacement (e.g. queueing at a weird time in a minority language, which does happen). I don't want to allow for friends to leech rewards off in-progress joins; I just want to be able to help my friends without annoying some completely unrelated group I happen to land in by mistake.

Err, it sounds like quite a nice handy idea at first, but I can easily see this being abused - kicking players out of duties for friends/FC mates to get their dailies/weeklies/specific-boss drops...

So... I'd have to vote no for this one 0:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

Err, it sounds like quite a nice handy idea at first, but I can easily see this being abused - kicking players out of duties for friends/FC mates to get their dailies/weeklies/specific-boss drops...

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So make it not count as a full clear for any drops (other than normal loot), quests or roulettes? Player who enters using this option gets a special buff, 'Helper' status, and no rewards other than the normal experience/chest drops. And their friend's undying gratitude, of course.

There's no need to stand against a great improvement to the game just because some people can exploit it, when removing the exploitable elements is extremely simple to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serilda

So make it not count as a full clear for any drops (other than normal loot), quests or roulettes? Player who enters using this option gets a special buff, 'Helper' status, and no rewards other than the normal experience/chest drops. And their friend's undying gratitude, of course.

There's no need to stand against a great improvement to the game just because some people can exploit it, when removing the exploitable elements is extremely simple to do.

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I'd go so far as to make it so that the 'Helper'* has to have clear credit (so no abuse there) and gets nothing but mob dropped Gil (so no loot, no achievements, and no bonuses of any kind)... i.e. they are there purely to help their friends complete the dungeon.

* Just to be clear, I'm imagining that the 'Helper' status would only apply to those invited via this system and not to those who simply join a 'party in progress' as it exists today.

I understand the concern about the system being abused even if it could be good too. Personally I think all systems are abused and you aren't going to stop that. People always find a way. People abuse the current system and nothing can be done about it so what would change? You will always have a$$hats that abuse it and some that use it properly. Why punish those that don't abuse it because of some a$$hats. Just my opinion although the queue in prog sometimes works it can sometimes be a pain when people really need help, and it doesn't even have to be someone kicked maybe they just left.

This is why I wish mentor was more of a "help those in need" roulette which puts you into both new and in-progress duties without having to chose "in progress". Also alliance roulette would be amazing :D

If reward for invited player will be turned off there will be no reasons to vote kick someone for a friend's benefit.