who think ast are broken

I think Balance is the single handedly most broken skill on a healer, add that with royal road ewer or spire card, and u have a raid wide dps increase by 10% for 30 sec, I am seeing an avg of 150-200 individual dps increase just by having an ast in ur party.

AST was purposely overbuffed to force them into the raid scene before 4.0 comes out. It is broken, but that's how it's supposed to feel until they can even things out later.

You're not wrong about AST bringing some pretty potent buffs, but you also have to balance that against their own dps being the worst of the three healer jobs. The overwhelming majority of their utility comes from their cards making the people around them better rather than improving their own performance the way WHM and SCH can do.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

You're not wrong about AST bringing some pretty potent buffs, but you also have to balance that against their own dps being the worst of the three healer jobs. The overwhelming majority of their utility comes from their cards making the people around them better rather than improving their own performance the way WHM and SCH can do.

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...Not by much. They can still do competitive DPS.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

...Not by much. They can still do competitive DPS.

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Yep.

Some tend to forget Scholar has the weakest nuke, Broil, of all three healers.

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Originally Posted by technole

Yep.

Some tend to forget Scholar has the weakest nuke, Broil, of all three healers.

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SCH also loses less healing potency while dpsing than the other two and the ease of spreading dots gives them a ton of dps potential that doesn't involve continuous input.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

SCH also loses less healing potency while dpsing than the other two and the ease of spreading dots gives them a ton of dps potential that doesn't involve continuous input.

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Eos is the real healer. We support heal when nessessary.

I'm over powered and proud of it. ^^

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Originally Posted by Callinon

You're not wrong about AST bringing some pretty potent buffs, but you also have to balance that against their own dps being the worst of the three healer jobs. The overwhelming majority of their utility comes from their cards making the people around them better rather than improving their own performance the way WHM and SCH can do.

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While WHM has the potential to do more DPS than AST, they cannot sustain it as well as the other two jobs. WHM is the weakest in terms of MP management of the three healers. AST also has the benefit of two DOTs that cannot miss, just like SCH, where WHM does not and will fully need to rely on accuracy melds to avoid missing and wasting MP.

I enjoy AST and it is my main, but I can see where WHM falls short in nearly every area. I hope that Stormblood will help to balance out the healers so that nobody feels that their class is the weakest.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

You're not wrong about AST bringing some pretty potent buffs, but you also have to balance that against their own dps being the worst of the three healer jobs. The overwhelming majority of their utility comes from their cards making the people around them better rather than improving their own performance the way WHM and SCH can do.

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I am sure their own personal dps is way less than 800+ raid dps.

There is no such thing as weak jobs. But rather they are easier & more straight forward compared to other jobs.
Being less desirable does not make the job bad or weak.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

There is no such thing as weak jobs. But rather they are easier & more straight forward compared to other jobs.
Being less desirable does not make the job bad or weak.

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Actually, there is such a thing if speaking on relative terms.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Actually, there is such a thing if speaking on relative terms.

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AST and WHM are very close in HPs and DPs. The only difference is that AST can help raid DPs while WHM can't.
This does not make the job bad. Just less desirable than the other two.

I'm not against making WHM more desirable.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

AST and WHM are very close in HPs and DPs. The only difference is that AST can help raid DPs while WHM can't.
This does not make the job bad. Just less desirable than the other two.

I'm not against making WHM more desirable.

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Ur right that there is no weak job, every job can complete current savage, but the way SE goes arounding and buffering whats not needed instead of just bringing their healer up totally make no sense.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

AST and WHM are very close in HPs and DPs. The only difference is that AST can help raid DPs while WHM can't.
This does not make the job bad. Just less desirable than the other two.

I'm not against making WHM more desirable.

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I think you're missing my point.

Shall I spell it out for you?

1) A is better than B because of X(Y,Z...etc.)
2) Therefore, A is "good" and B is "bad" relative to A.
3) The relevance and meaning of "good" and "bad" is then left to subjective interpretation based on applicable factors. (e.g. Planned application, group dynamics...etc.)

Saw an interesting idea for adding Water I-III as DPS spells that restore MP, as a means to give WHMs a MP restore that also damages, but I cannot imagine the nightmare of balancing that. WHMs could also be given some debuffs in line with, say, Libra, from Amdapor HM's second boss. However, that still wouldn't really be as good as raid-wide DPS increase.

Balance just got over.....balanced.

When AST got buffed, they also buffed Balance, which was already the main thing AST had going for them.
The other cards should have still recieved buffs, but the buff to Balance was unecessary.

It has basically created a "Balance or Fold" situation for the most part.

I do think AST cards will get rebalanced when the expansion comes out, obviously it depends on what skills/abilities we get in the expansion. I hope AST gets some multi-cooldowns like it currently does:

Lightspeed- MP/CAST
Synastry - Healing Potency, the weird shared heal
Luminferous - MP/ENMITY

AST cool downs do a lot of things in one button, I think if Spear got buffed somehow then Balance can be nerfed a little bit.

http://tinyurl.com/ff14healers

>_< Made that document before and AST really didn't need 3.4's buffs to bring them in. People were just still happy to tout that AST sucks, blah blah blah, bandwagonning stigma, etc. :\ Now WHM has "no place." It's not that WHM can't sustain DPS- they can, but it not by any means as good as AST's (read: AST's Lumi lasts far longer and can be extended, meaning it's easier to manage their MP as a whole) and if a healer is DPSing, they're going to be accuracy capped regardless if it's WHM, AST or SCH with or without guaranteed hitting DoTs.

The issue is there's nothing a WHM can do that an AST can't, sans super-potent-close-group healing in the form of Cure III. There's also no content that will be made where Cure III will ever be forced, much like you will never see content where an Adlo+ spread will be needed. Also, people like being fed cards for number bloating, 'cause no one actually needs the cards to pass DPS checks.

This should really be in the healer sub-forum.

I probably can't really give an unbiased post since AST is the only real healer i play, but i guess i'll try. So for the card changes i do agree the balance (and therefore bole) buff was unneeded, but the draw duration buff and recently the instant draw/redraw was also a pretty big deal. The nocturnal sect buffs were also a bit too big shield-wise since we shield more than an noncrit adlo/succor more often than not. i think the heal potency was definitely needed to help differentiate the sects more since prior to 3.4 diurnal was just better almost every time.

in the end, i'll still be playing AST if we do get the nerf hammer. that being said, i doubt we'll see a change for quite a while though.

edit: i personally feel the change to benefic II's trait was a nerf. i'd prefer an instant benefic II over a guaranteed crit most of the time.

No one likes their Job to be less useful/powerful than another Job. This is the issue here. WHM is perfectly capable of healing. It is just AST can manage the healing just as well and brings more to the table. That's the problem with a healing Job that specialises in strong heals. You reach a stage where those extra heals aren't necessary anymore and as such have little value.

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Originally Posted by Mikaeus_The_Lunarch

the draw duration buff and recently the instant draw/redraw was also a pretty big deal.

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This.
The balance buff was already OP, but the ability to redraw every card at least once, is as OP, if not more.

I remember before AST was released that they said balance was the bad card which cause like 10% dps loss, <.< not sure if that's changed during patches or it wasn't true but I never used balance intill I found out it was a dps buff lol, but yea I find AST is the best healer out of the three healers, because of the buffs and noct stance, that's a OP healer lol

YoshiP is bad about overbuffing something that needed buffed and overnerfing something that needed nerfed.

Warrior, Astrologian, Machinist overbuffed.
Over nerfing mages in PVP.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

YoshiP is bad about overbuffing something that needed buffed and overnerfing something that needed nerfed.

Warrior, Astrologian, Machinist overbuffed.
Over nerfing mages in PVP.

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IIRC, mages were overnerfed because apparently the JP are super godly at coordinating and nuking people en masse with them, even in pug FLs. It sucks because that has blowback for players in other regions, but I can kind of understand where just looking at JP streams they'd feel like mages were a big issue in large-scale battlegrounds.

Astro has reached the point of arguably being more desirable than Scholar. What possessed the devs to buff Balance I'll never understand. I can only imagine it will be nerfed come 4.0, otherwise White Mage will continue to languish behind.

Remove healers giving dps boosts. Or give all healers one aoe dos boost each.