Need help with the tank jobs please.

So, I have paladin, and warrior both at 44ish, and dark knight at 48. I still have no idea which one I like the most. There are things I like about each.

I really like the theme of paladin, and the fact that at later levels it seems much more like what I think a plain would be with the shield, and heals. That being said, they don't seem very effective.

I love that the dark knight uses some magic, and the abilities all look very nice. However, I do find it kind of confusing. Really I just need some advice on how to play it to really make an informed choice on it more than the others.

I really like that the warrior doesn't feel like a tank, and hits pretty hard. The issue I have with it is I find it kind of boring.

What I need help with is choosing one to start to level seriously. I am pretty good at the game, but I feel like I am not a good tank in this game. Dark just feels clunky to me, and like I am always underperforming. Im not sure if its me or not. Warrior is great, but is so incredibly common I feel. Also paladin just seems to get a lot of hate, and I don't want to catch any flak for it. Also Im not quite sure it would play the way I expect it to at the level cap.

Can you give me a recommendation, and some tips on your recommendation please?

Bear in mind that this is all subject to change, as we're less than a half a year out from the new expansion. Paladin, in particular, has already been singled out as a job that is going to get an enormous power boost when that drops. That being said, there's no telling how exactly things are going to turn out, since we know nothing about what changes they intend on making. Also, to be frank, unless you're engaging in endgame raiding, it really doesn't matter which tank you play as any of the 3 will do the job just fine. If you like Paladin, don't let anybody give you any flak for playing it unless you're trying to bring it into... like... A12S, but that doesn't sound like that's the kind of content you'll be looking to do.

Paladin is the easiest of the 3 to play optimally while keeping hate, but it really falls behind in terms of individual damage and AoE, making things take a lot longer to die during your common dungeon runs. They technically get a bit more bulky than the other two thanks to their shield and their cooldown suite, but it's not actually a big enough gap to notice if you're playing the other two at a decent level. That plus Clemency being massively underwhelming, their shield not working at all on magic, and a lower potential threat generation, all makes Paladin popularly considered the weakest tank of the expansion. After Paladin, the skill ceiling raises quite a bit between Dark Knight and Warrior. Paladin simply has less tools to play with, and ways to help the team in meaningful ways in this expansion. Cover, Divine Veil, and Clemency are all nifty utility skills, but will very rarely make a difference compared to the higher offensive potential of the other 2 tanks.

With Dark, you'll often be juggling MP aggressively, though it does get easier at max level. It is extremely satisfying to crank out multiple Dark Arts- Abyssal Drain combos while you are doing an enormous pull under Blood Price. You deal excellent AoE damage, you heal up a massive chunk of health, and you generate enough threat to last you for years. Playing Dark at a high level can be a satisfying, rewarding experience. The problem with it is that if you make a mistake, it often takes a very long time to recover in the event that you run out of MP, and can no longer maintain Darkside. Dropping Darkside makes you significantly weaker both offensively as well as defensively, in certain situations. As long as you have a proper handle on the encounter, and how your tools interact with it, you will have defenses that rival that of Paladin, while pushing out an impressive amount of damage as well.

Finally, Warrior is the job that I played the most during my run as a tank. You are correct in your assessment that it hits like a DPS, that it is extremely popular, and regarded as the strongest tank of this expansion. Warrior's damage potential is the highest of all 3 tanks due to it's amazing suit of offensive abilities, revolving around Fell Cleave, Decimate, and Berserk. The popular conception is that they are the squishiest of the tanks, but this is absolutely not true at all, as long as the Warrior has a strong understanding of their abilities, and when to use them. When doing huge pulls, Vengeance, Bloodbath, and Berserk all synergize together gloriously, turning you into a walking fountain of heath regen while everything crumbles before you. Additionally, Warrior is the only tank of the 3 to come with it's own self provided slashing debuff (something that hopefully changes in 4.0), as well as benefits from having it's optimal DPS output come from it's enmity combo. This means that it's easier for Warrior to maintain hate on a boss while still dealing it's maximum possible damage output. Warrior, in my opinion, has the highest potential skill ceiling of the 3 tanks, but I'll admittedly be a bit biased as it was the one I preferred, when I was a tank player.

Again, all of this is subject to change within the next 6 months. Even if it was not, it does not matter which tank you pick, it'll be able to see you easily through any content in the game. I know it was a bit of a read, but hopefully this will help you make an informed decision about which tank to play. ^^

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Originally Posted by SargentToughie

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Thank you very much! It was a nice read. I like long posts with details, so I don't mind reading it.

The fact that paladin doesn't do much on the healing side, and doesn't seem all that "holy", if that makes sense, turns me away from it. From this post, it is between the dark knight (mainly because I don't want to feel like it beat me lol), and the warrior. Which I kinda had a feeling it would be.

I haven't played paladin or warrior to high level at all, but some general advice for Dark Knight tanking:

- Managing your MP is critical, but you're actually not quite yet at the level where that gets easier. Blood Price is the biggest part of that, but there's other things you can do.

If you look at the party list, the numbers followed by fill level of the little bar next to it to the left of character names shows their threat level on your target. This will help you be able to judge whether you are solidly ahead of everyone else. If you are, you can stop using your enmity combo and use Siphon Strike. Switch between finishing the combo with Dark Arts-Soul Eater or Abyssal Drain depending on your mana level - I try not to get too low ever in case of emergencies.

Generally, I open a trash pull with an Unleash or two, put a couple of enmity-generating hits on everything, then Blood Price if it's up, and rotate through targets hitting things and checking none of them are at risk of getting loose.

On bosses, I start with Plunge or Unmend, turn the boss away from the party, then throw a couple of Dark Arts-Power Slash combo finishers and then switch to DPS combos until someone starts getting a little higher on the threat meter than I like.

Unleash is very good, but make sure you are going to have mana for it, and make sure Provoke is cross-classed where you can get to it easily.

In group pulls, especially large ones, it's more than worth the mana hit for Dark Arts-Abyssal Drain.

And the things I've learned from my White Mage best friend:

- Cross-class Convalescence and use it often.

- If your health drops below 50%, it is time for a cooldown.

- If your healer is a white mage, always wait for Stoneskin II before pulling a boss, they can't cast it in-combat.

- If the DPS are dying a lot or taking damage and the healer is having trouble with mana, if you have some available throw defensive cooldowns to lighten the mana cost of healing you for a while.

Better use CD before your Health dropps. You'll need to learn to foresee when dmg will come. :)

if you want to feel like you're tanking, play paladin. that's my favorite. it feels so awesome to pop Tempered Will (resist knockback) and Cover to prevent a damage dealer from getting kicked back. that being said, it doesn't really matter for beating the boss. that's why most people couldn't care less

if you're a typical prima dona tank (a damage dealer who wants to be in the spotlight), then play warrior. i admit, warrior is fun, but it's no tank at all

drk is the most interesting. it's the reluctant tank. he spends most of his time trying to quickly kill the enemy (swift justice), and only reluctantly does an enmity combo to keep others alive. totally fits the theme: #1 priority is kill the enemy, #2 priority is save your friends, if you have time :p

Gauge your skills is the only tip I can give you. To me DRK is well balanced and easier to maintain hate than with PLD / WAR. Over all in the end the last thing you want is to be put in a situation were the game no longer feels fun. Specially if you do mayor raids and end game. Some FC's and parties add extra pressure on tanks. It's good to know how each tank works so you have an idea of what they have to do to maintain hate, however keep in mind that until you do some lvl 60 raids it is hard to really gauge your skills. In dungeons it's easy over all.

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Originally Posted by Tifu

On bosses, I start with Plunge or Unmend, turn the boss away from the party, then throw a couple of Dark Arts-Power Slash combo finishers and then switch to DPS combos until someone starts getting a little higher on the threat meter than I like.

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Unmend and then Plunge quickly would be wiser than one or the other, or worse just Plunging as that has no enmity modifier to it nor a chance for a free Unleash. Make sure you're not just focusing on the combos either, Scourge is one of your best skills so you'd want to get it up and keep it up as swiftly as you can manage. Personally I make it a point to do it right after Dark Passenger just so I don't need to watch the dot timer since they line up perfectly.

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Originally Posted by Tifu

- If your health drops below 50%, it is time for a cooldown.

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Unless a fight specifically mandates using specific CDs at specific points Dark Knight can actually manage to always have one running and still be holding a couple for things you might need to respond to, so waiting for 50% is almost never ideal. Dark Dance, Shadowskin, Foresight, Dark Dance, Bloodbath, Convalescence, Awareness can be cycled like that endlessly, each used as the previous one is just wearing off, while holding Shadow Wall, Dark Mind, and Living Dead for bigger threats.
The constant application of these buffs also provides respectable enmity generation, as each one is worth approximately 210 potency worth of enmity to everything in combat.
Other tanks aren't so fortunate, but can still manage pretty good uptime on something when there's no reason to be holding on.

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Originally Posted by cheolsu

if you're a typical prima dona tank (a damage dealer who wants to be in the spotlight), then play warrior. i admit, warrior is fun, but it's no tank at all

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Care to explain why it is like you said?
I guess it's just your personal opinion but maybe, you have actually Arguments, i'm interested in those. :)

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Originally Posted by CafPow

Care to explain why it is like you said?
I guess it's just your personal opinion but maybe, you have actually Arguments, i'm interested in those. :)

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It's a bit of a joke that WAR is a "confused DPS." XD Most of the advantages WAR brings depends a lot on racking up numbers, so it's not so much tanking (mitigating damage), and more going nuts and slaying everything LOL. I don't think she means WAR can't tank, just that the play style itself favours a DPS mindset, if that makes sense.

(the prima dona thing is subjective, but I have noticed WARs have a higher rate of... arrogant people. You don't see it as much with the other tanks because they usually get flack for one thing or another. Doesn't leave much room for confidence lol).

I have warrior at 60 and paladin at 52. I can say that you won't get a very good idea of how warrior feels until you've got the skills up through lv 60. That is because from 50-60, you're getting the DPS stance and related skills, which essentially counts for half your skillset. It's where you get the big guns to pair with your tanking/selfhealy skills. Swapping between tank and dps stances to adapt to the situation is where the class really shines. I assume that paladin and dark knight are going to feel the same way in that you won't get a good picture of what they are capable of until lv 60. I went with warrior because it was the most fun to play after getting both to 50. I intend to get them all to 60 eventually.

You can use Palace of the Dead to try out the lv 60 skillsets, although the situation isn't ideal and you won't learn much about how to tank with them until you get into a proper dungeon. You can at least get a feel for how the skills work!

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Originally Posted by SeriousxSarcasm

It's a bit of a joke that WAR is a "confused DPS." XD Most of the advantages WAR brings depends a lot on racking up numbers, so it's not so much tanking (mitigating damage), and more going nuts and slaying everything LOL. I don't think she means WAR can't tank, just that the play style itself favours a DPS mindset, if that makes sense.

(the prima dona thing is subjective, but I have noticed WARs have a higher rate of... arrogant people. You don't see it as much with the other tanks because they usually get flack for one thing or another. Doesn't leave much room for confidence lol).

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ah i see. Well, can't say something about the second thing but i understand ^^
Though, in My Opinion, WAR is strong not only becaus DPS, but, because he is the most variable Tank when it comes to defense.

I came into XIV not knowing much about the classes but I wanted to be a warrior. In FFXI, Warrior was originally a tank but quickly got replaced and became a really good dps as time went on. When I found out WAR was a tank in this game I was a little disappointed but I still really enjoy playing WAR.