Healer Dps vs. Tank Dps Stance

I main tank (mostly pld) and never drop tank stance during trash pulls. I do during boss fights to an extent.

My question is, is a healers dps higher than a tank in dps stance? If so, why do I see so many Wars in 4 Man dungeons going to deliverance during trash pulls? Are those crit fell cleaves that important for you?

The only tank I can see that would benefit from dropping tank stance is drk.

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Also if a healer can have 75% dps uptime during boss battles if I stay in tank stance, that surely has to be more output dps than my extra auto attacks can contribute, or the 15% I get back.

Triple decimate instead of triple fell cleave, kill all the things (after properly establishing aggro ofc)

The answer is "it depends." A SCH using bane on an enormous pack is going to do more damage than you. A SCH using bane on an enormous pack may not do more damage than a WAR with a berserked triple decimate. But if the WAR isn't holding aggro, then everyone loses.

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Originally Posted by Spiroglyph

Triple decimate instead of triple fell cleave, kill all the things (after properly establishing aggro ofc)

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I don't have my war to 60 yet. I didn't realize the dps potential of decimate.

However, if I was to use steel cyclone instead, using the extra hp as a buffer in defiance so the healer can use holy, azzize, aero3, gravity, bane, ect, wouldn't that be and dps increase of 80 to 100?

I usually drop tank stance on lot of trash pull decimate x3 an I just bath in the blood of my enemies, I had never die doing it so,why? Easy we got something call vengeance, so I have done it with PLD an DRK, it's just that Wars steal the show doing that.
Don't be afraid to do so, with a heavy CD you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I don't have my war to 60 yet. I didn't realize the dps potential of decimate.

However, if I was to use steel cyclone instead, using the extra hp as a buffer in defiance so the healer can use holy, azzize, aero3, gravity, bane, ect, wouldn't that be and dps increase of 80 to 100?

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Or if the tank is holding aggro and dpsing and using cooldowns, and the healer is also dpsing and uses an emergency heal if they need to, everyone wins and it's glorious.

Mhm...it's a bit difficult because it's hard to determine how much more cleric uptime a healer gets through tank stance.

In the case of a Scholar for example, they won't do a whole lot extra damage after they've put down Bane and Shadow Flare. A White Mage and Astro might - but WHM in particular has a stun attached to their biggest AoE, so switching to offense stance is astoundingly safe. I'm tentatively leaning on the:"It probably won't increase DPS noticeably." side.

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I main tank (mostly pld) and never drop tank stance during trash pulls. I do during boss fights to an extent.

My question is, is a healers dps higher than a tank in dps stance? If so, why do I see so many Wars in 4 Man dungeons going to deliverance during trash pulls? Are those crit fell cleaves that important for you?

The only tank I can see that would benefit from dropping tank stance is drk.

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If the healer is capable than generally yes.

DRK is an especially 'bad' example of a tank dropping tank stance, as the piddly delta DPS DRK gains is very, very easily outdone by a healer, while doing so forces that much more healing.

To put it in perspective, a healer can easily do >1k DPS (WHM can burst over 2.5k) on a single target (though if they start late the parser might not reflect this). On trash packs in the current dungeons, that can easily go over 4k or 5k DPS. Is the difference between your DPS output in tank stance vs out of tank stance larger than that?

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I don't have my war to 60 yet. I didn't realize the dps potential of decimate.

However, if I was to use steel cyclone instead, using the extra hp as a buffer in defiance so the healer can use holy, azzize, aero3, gravity, bane, ect, wouldn't that be and dps increase of 80 to 100?

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War is also the only tank whose tank stance doesn't affect damage recieved, just healing boost

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Or if the tank is holding aggro and dpsing and using cooldowns, and the healer is also dpsing and uses an emergency heal if they need to, everyone wins and it's glorious.

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This. I don't know how it is for other tanks, but as a WAR I can easily sustain myself for the better part of a pull and still get a few Decimates off. A healer preparing the pull well with shields or regens, combined with a tank using appropriate cooldowns for the pull means everyone gets lots of free time for DPS.

Why not both

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Originally Posted by BorisDaBlade

I main tank (mostly pld) and never drop tank stance during trash pulls. I do during boss fights to an extent.

My question is, is a healers dps higher than a tank in dps stance? If so, why do I see so many Wars in 4 Man dungeons going to deliverance during trash pulls? Are those crit fell cleaves that important for you?

The only tank I can see that would benefit from dropping tank stance is drk.

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Because WAR has no active mitigation and moving into DPS stance and adding convalescence is no different than being in tank stance except you get +25% damage boost?

If you're not moving into sword oath on trash, that's fine; but I would definitely recommend going sword oath once you have sufficient aggro on boss fights. That is a HUUUUGE DPS boost for PLD who's already pretty gimped when it comes to DPS.

I find it depends heavily on the fight. Xelphatol, for instance, I could get away without Grit and barely noticed a difference. Although I have yet to try it in the current dungeons since I barely queue for them, I somehow don't see being able to cheese through those trash pulls as easily.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I find it depends heavily on the fight. Xelphatol, for instance, I could get away without Grit and barely noticed a difference. Although I have yet to try it in the current dungeons since I barely queue for them, I somehow don't see being able to cheese through those trash pulls as easily.

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Sohm Al HM is really easy, it doesn't hit hard at all outside of the last boss' tank buster (Deadly Sting). As a WAR, trash is the usual couple of Overpowers, pop a CD or two, Deliverence and double Decimate. Bosses is the usual two combos in tank stance, then Deliverence for the rest of the fight. Never been a problem.

Baelsar's Wall is different because the trash pulls are way less controlled - they come to you, not the other way around, and the first half of the dungeon is filled with ranged mobs. Still, once everything is grouped, it's usually pretty safe to DPS stance it after a while.