Let's talk about Good Mentors

There's one title that's been on a lot of people's lips and been mentioned a lot recently: mentor.

While looking through the forums recently, I've seen a lot of negative threads about bad mentors and talking about why they're bad. But sometimes you get a really good mentor who knows what they're doing and really helps you out.

I'd like to hear about those stories. I'll reply to some here and there myself (cause I like doing that). I'd also appreciate it if you passed the link to this thread on to people who tell you about good mentors they've had so they can write their experiences here too.

The sad thing is, anyone who'd truly be in need of a mentor isn't going to be a position to know how good their mentor really is, even if they might at least be able to identify a bad one. In my own experience, most reception correlates to politeness, not the accuracy or thoroughness of information given. Try teaching a party about focus targeting, AoEs, CD timing, etc., even just in a positive, casual as-you-go-fashion, and you could (in my experience likely) be badmouthed for being a try-hard or not meeting "what [they're] really looking for..." It's probably just my unluck, but I'm not too surprised that many of the best and most informative players I know have given up on trying to mentor people through a roulette rather than personal request.

I really hear you on the points you've made. But I know there are some really good ones out there who will say "Hey, can I help you with...." or "Hey, here's how you do....". They at least try to put in an effort and people like them.

Although I am not a leaf, I can think of a couple in my own FC, including one who taught me a better rotation for Summoner. I haven't deviated from it since I've learend and I went from barely putting out enough DPS to amazing a lot of people with how much damage I can actually put out.

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Originally Posted by Alex_LoneWolf

I really hear you on the points you've made. But I know there are some really good ones out there who will say "Hey, can I help you with...." or "Hey, here's how you do....". They at least try to put in an effort.

I can think of a couple in my own FC, including one who taught me a better rotation for Summoner. I haven't deviated from it since I've learned and I went from barely putting out enough DPS to amazing a lot of people with how much damage I can actually put out.

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(To be clear, I misunderstood your reference to mentors as being only towards those roulette-runners in the shiny hats...)

I still for one will help LS mates (FC abandoned; just house-sitting now) with figuring out a class at both a theoretical and practical level. Sometimes I'll even put the question forward, rather than only waiting to be asked (though that might not be the best sign for their dps if I feel the need to do so). When I was still leveling my own battle classes on my main or alt, especially, I really enjoyed taking someone who was aware and generally capable and making them as recklessly (yet securely) ambitious as I am. (They grow up so fast!!!) But the dozen-plus mentor roulettes I've done have each shown that medium for instruction to be very, very lacking.

Long ago, back when the game was just still in version 2.0, not even 2.1, I ran into a tank that was struggling in Brayflox. One of the DPS spoke up, as they had a tank leveled and started to coach the person. They told them about enmity, pulling mobs and facing them away from parties. We found out the tank didn't have tomahawk/ shield lob and was told it was behind their job quest- they didn't know job quests gave skills~! The DPS also explained that provoke just gives top enmity + 1 and isn't intended to pull groups with. They also talked about using chains, as this tank had been using rage of halone/ butcher block only as well as how good flash and overpower were for holding group hate. Come to boss time, the tank is told to move immediately for orange floor puddles, poison, etc- don't worry about getting another hit in.

The run didn't go too much slower than normal, really only stopping for typing. We went from a run made of the stuff of nightmares to something actually smooth and enjoyable. Looking back on it, this DPS was an amazing and thorough mentor as well as the student was modest, humble and willing to listen. They actually thanked the person for sparing time to explain it to them. Granted, this is from the dark ages of FXIV: ARR, but a good mentor is still a good mentor.

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Running roulette the other day, had a tank that was a mentor for Stone Vigil HM. One of the DPS was a new player, so we get to the bosses, we pause to give a brief tip for things to watch out for. I notice it's taking a while for them to type and after a little bit, they've said roughly what the boss does and I add a couple of things to it. The run goes fairly smoothly with a hiccup here or there. We get to the final boss and he asks if I just want to explain the final encounter; I say np and explain it. We kill it, clearing the dungeon with no problems. At the end, he says thanks- it's really annoying to type on ps controller sometimes, so having someone else pitch in for explanations really helped. It was one of those times we ended up helping each other 'cause the last time I ran that dungeon was before 3.0 dropped, so rust was everywhere.

Way back when mentors became a thing and when antitower was in expert roulette, I had a run with one. There was a bonus message and the mentor tank waited before every boss asking if the newbie needed mechanics explained then proceeded to patiently explain in just the right detail without making it needlessly long text. It was the first mentor I saw that day, unfortunately the last good one I saw as well to this day.
They did get my comm of course.

Nice! These are some pretty awesome stories!

It's actually nice to hear about people using the Mentor system for the way it was designed, rather than just thinking of themselves.

I'll just cross post my own story from a different thread in here:

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I think the only real time where I've given unsolicited advice was in a Copperbell (normal) run I had where there was a sprout ACN with Topaz Carby out. It annoyed the DRK tank we had greatly but eventually Carby just died due to aggro and after noticing that the ACN didn't resummon a Carby after a while made note of that in party chat and made not to use Emerald instead of Topaz. After the next pull the ACN did indeed summon Emerald Carby into the fray and things went smoothly from there. I made my notes about specific bosses as we hit them up and reminded the ACN to resummon his Topaz Carby once before he left as the Topaz Carby is great for solo play but not so much for party play due to having a dedicated tank most of the time. There was never a single word from this ACN but I ended up walking away with three commends that run so I'll take it that people appreciated the talk xD

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Nice story!

I will admit that I had to learn the same thing while working on Arcanist along with....maybe not using Misasma the way I thought it was supposed to be.... XD. This was back at the beginning of Heavensward, but I think it still applies.

When I first stared playing, I ran an instance with a couple of friends of mine, one who was a summoner. I happened to get Miasma in this instance, but was constantly casting it, thinking it was a replacement for Ruin. After we got out, my summoner friend asked me if I was constantly using Miasma. I explained, and he chuckled and explained how Miasma worked.

I've already tooted my own horn on a recent WoD run where I feel like I did my crown proud, but in response to what makes a mentor "good" being subjective, I feel like a decent metric would simply be whether their advice made an improvement on what they were giving advice for, or at the very least if they remained polite and positive in the face of the challenge and never lost their cool.

When silence is so common in PUGs, I feel like the bar for being a good mentor objectively hasn't been set terribly high for anyone capable of speaking up to help while keeping their cool regardless of the response.

Ultima's Ballad. More than half the players were new. I was ready to start explaining mechanics when the other mentor stepped up and gave a quick breakdown of all the most important points. He then walked everyone through during the fight, telling tanks when to swap, reminding people to grab orbs. We wiped, he gave pointers for the end of the fight, we ran it again. He told the tank exactly when to LB for the biggest group of orbs, and we successfully mopped that up in two runs. He did the title proud that day.

More recently, joined an in progress that turned out to be Ifrit Extreme about 20 min in. All the dps who joined in progress were mentors. Although we didn't clear, we stayed until time was up and got consistently close to the end of the fight with each run. Everyone was patient, giving tanks tips about what to do with chains, when to tank swaps, telling healers about searing wind, etc.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

I've already tooted my own horn on a recent WoD run where I feel like I did my crown proud, but in response to what makes a mentor "good" being subjective, I feel like a decent metric would simply be whether their advice made an improvement on what they were giving advice for, or at the very least if they remained polite and positive in the face of the challenge and never lost their cool.

When silence is so common in PUGs, I feel like the bar for being a good mentor objectively hasn't been set terribly high for anyone capable of speaking up to help while keeping their cool regardless of the response.

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Even as someone who is not a mentor but is willing to teach what I can, I can agree with about silent people who are new.

And congrats on a successful World of Darkness run that you are able to toot your own horn about!

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Stories

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These are some pretty awesome stories also! It's great to hear that people are learning in older content, even if it's not getting cleared.

A lot of these stories I'm noticing is from before the mentor system and novice network were put in place, these are the true mentors.

I had a mentor back when I had started that had taught me some of the ins and outs of the game, he helped me with lving by taking me out and doing fates with me this was back around patch 2.5. When I started to lv a tank he had also taught me how to hold aggro and the proper combos to be doing.

I think they should adjust the mentor system so that the mentor crown only shows in the novice network chat and logs. This could weed out those mentors that only became one to have the crown as a status symbol while running around and in dungeons.

Mentors invite new and returning players to the novice network so really they don't need something beside their name showing they're a mentor while running around.

Sorry my first proper post and all. I hear loads of bad stories about mentors. I met ones not into teaching but the icon. But the stranger mentors I met randomly (duty or not) were either super silent or... well super nice. I started my first mmo game (ffxiv) as whm (a mistake if you ask me)... I was doing sass a few times just to get used to the way it worked. On that run I was not a new player already but still tank (mentor) asked me as whm if I am cool with pulling large. First and the last time tank did that. I puffed up and we did it ! It actually went great and I loved the run. Him doing it gave me confidence I can do it for some reason.

Other time was when I was levelling my bard and I freshly hit 50. I simply had no mind of buying the weapon at that point (I was still at 50 msq and the weapon for me was ridiculously expensive) ... so yeah I stopped at market at 3 am ST. Went slightly afk but then noticed that sb is /waving at me. It happened to be a player with mentor status, obviously I waved back. He hit trade where I found level 50 weapon (I think 120 ilevel as I have been using it for long while afterwards), I gave him all fire crystals I harvested the day before (as I felt bad to be just handed over stuff) - and he said that it is not how it works. Apparently when he has hit level 50 himself other mentor player handed him the weapon like he did to me. To help and celebrate. I still gave him the fire crystals and promised to do the same when I \\'grow up\\'. I felt a bit ashamed as I already had whm at level 56 at that point (just levelling second job) but telling him that would break the magic so I just replied how I could and I truly intend to do that when I hit level 50 and am able to craft that (hopefully soon).

I remember when I was new, there was a mentor who hosted a trivia event for sprouts. Only sprouts could participate.

She even gave out prizes to the top three scorers. I thought that was neat.

I was fortunate to receive guidance from a good friend who also played, he was very patient and happy to teach an unabashed newcomer the ins and outs of the game. I have follow his example for mentoring people and try not be rude or condescending when people ask for assistance or info. Taking this approach to mentoring has led to a lot of good online interactions with people which makes the game more enjoyable for me anyway.

I'm one of those "roulette runners" and I try to always stay kind and calm. I do my best to be helpful, but sometimes my shyness and fear gets in the way of giving pointers on rotations/skills. I've gotten a lot of hate trying to give such pointers.

I love getting primals for my roulettes. I always stay until we clear, or when the others decide to give up. Had a ton of new people in shiva ex once. It took a while and a lot of explaining/practice, but we finally cleared and my group was so proud. I couldn't help but giggle a bit. It was quite fun :3

To me a good mentor says hello and, ask new players what they want to do :
- Explain everything to have a quick run
- Let them discover the strat the hard way while being patient and giving some hints

No a mentor myself (not enought dungeons....i hate farming....) althought I see myself as one and always ask them what they want to do, usually, they are pretty happy to have a discover run, even if it take an hour to clean the dungeon, rather than getting everything on a silver plate :D

Mentors who do trivia games and such? Wow, I've never heard of that before!

Although I meant the thread more towards those who have a crown and were doing a good job, I think all the people mentioned have done some pretty awesome things. And it's good to remember at this time that not all the mentors are rotten apples who spoil the whole bunch, just some.

why dont talk about the newbies that trash talk the mentor and thinks he is "yelling" at them and being rude while i have said that my english is weak while im explaning stuff to them (( happened more than once))

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Originally Posted by Konakyun

why dont talk about the newbies that trash talk the mentor and thinks he is "yelling" at them and being rude while i have said that my english is weak while im explaning stuff to them (( happened more than once))

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Please open a new thread for this :)

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Originally Posted by Konakyun

why dont talk about the newbies that trash talk the mentor and thinks he is "yelling" at them and being rude while i have said that my english is weak while im explaning stuff to them (( happened more than once))

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That's not the topic of this thread. Please address it elsewhere.

I enjoy and appreciate the many mentors I have come across. When Noone else would help me get moving in the right direction. My only regret is having to have had to leave the Novice Network. But, the mentors of Famfrit have always been a great asset to myself and others I know