Etiquette in XIV

I am not exactly new to the game, but a situation that happened a few days ago got me wondering about some of the unwritten rules in the community. I recently got to 60 and I have been gearing up. I was doing hunt marks and after arriving at a target, waiting and seeing a bunch of people had arrived, pulled the boss, that being normal to me as a tank.

I was immediately called out and after the boss was down was mentioned multiple times by name in global channels in what I can only assume was slander. Now I had no idea pulling was wrong when I did. But with the way servers are set-up you don't really want to establish some bad reputation tied to your name.

So the question: Are there any more etiquette or 'rules' that people will frown upon at max level?

I think in your case, some people got mad because the rest of their group arrived, and that's their own fault for not communicating with the other players around. I doubt your 'mistake' will be remembered by anyone 15 minutes later. Maybe the etiquette varies by server for hunts, but on Faerie, there doesn't seem to be a formal process about when to engage a hunt... you just wait a reasonable amount of time for people to show up, then someone leeroys it, and the mark dies in 10 seconds. That sounds like what you did! When in doubt, you can just wait and eventually someone else will pull it or ask for it to be pulled.

For hunts, there will be several hunt linkshells with 50+ people in each. They'll often report sightings and form groups from there to engage the hunts. You probably just pulled before one of those groups fully arrived, so the other members got miffed. Not your fault!

Early pulling with hunts is definitely a thing, and one should strive to make sure there are no more people incoming, such as asking if there are any more people before pulling and not pulling if yes, and generally try to be patient while people get there. Having said that, S ranks tend to attract a nigh infinite string of people and virtually no matter when you pull, if someone doesn't make it, they'll start complaining about early pulling. It's a mini drama that plays out after every S rank in particular, even when I know the thing has been up 10 minutes already, because people don't think they should have to drop what they're doing to go to the S rank if they want to reliably make it.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Having said that, S ranks tend to attract a nigh infinite string of people and virtually no matter when you pull, if someone doesn't make it, they'll start complaining about early pulling. It's a mini drama that plays out after every S rank in particular

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That sounds about right, even for A ranks. There will always be someone else on the way as word gets round. Sometimes when I see a massive pile of people, I just shout something like 'Ready for pull or wait?'. If I get no response or 'go', I engage. Sometimes I'll get a shout reply 'wait for me', so I wait. Other times I just wait around for someone else to pull... which is the safe bet if you don't want to miff anyone.

Being an open world mob, there's technically no such thing as an 'early' pull. You've just found someone who was significantly slower than you and the rest of the crowd to get partied up and ready. It's unfortunate for them this time, but it's not like there won't be another.

On Ultros, we rarely have early pull issues. I'm in 5 hunt linkshells and when a call goes out it will usually be around 5 mins before the "hunt dead" call goes out. People will repeatedly ask in LS and in Shout if others are on the way. If they are most people seem to have the courtesy to wait. On the rare occasion that someone does pull early that person is 1.) Called out and questioned by their actions. Then 2.) If they show no remorse as in "I'm not waiting for noobs" the they get blacklisted from the most popular hunt linkshells on the server. This system works and we rarely have early pulls.

While I hope this didn't happen to you on yours because it definitely seems like you made a mistake just try to remember to shout out and call in LS

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Being an open world mob, there's technically no such thing as an 'early' pull. You've just found someone who was significantly slower than you and the rest of the crowd to get partied up and ready. It's unfortunate for them this time, but it's not like there won't be another.

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It's a hunt. If you're not actively hunting no one is obligated to hold it for you. It's a nice gesture but that's it.

If there's nobody there when you find a hunt, shout that it's available, and wait a bit for others to arrive. After a couple minutes, shout again to ask if anyone is on the way. If anyone is, then wait for them. If not and there are enough people to take on the mob, then it's ok to pull. It may be considered more polite if you also announce then that you're pulling. On my server, at least for S ranks, people usually announce in advance the time (in Eorzea time) of the pull (though we don't generally bother with that on A ranks unless it's drawing an unusually large crowd).

If there are already other people there, then don't pull unless they say to. For S rank hunts, whoever spawned the mark gets to choose when the pull time is. For A rank hunts (or an S if nobody seems to know who spawned it) whoever found it first gets to decide. In either case, deciding when to pull should be discussed, so that if anyone isn't ready they have a chance to say so. And it should not be pulled (even if the first person wants to) if the rest of the people there aren't ready.

A ready check is a basic enough MMO pattern. If it's a small group there and they form into a single party, you can even use the built-in ready check feature from the party interface. If there are other people there not in your party, then it can be done in /say or /shout. Give people a chance to indicate whether they're ready or not, and if anybody says to wait, then you wait. So long as you've done that, then even if someone arrives later and misses it, nobody is going to call that an early pull.

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Originally Posted by Rinari

I doubt your 'mistake' will be remembered by anyone 15 minutes later.

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After just this one occasion, no it won't be remembered. But if the same person pulls early on a regular basis, disrupting every hunt they arrive at, that's something people will remember them for.

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Originally Posted by LuckiGoLucki

On Ultros, we rarely have early pull issues. I'm in 5 hunt linkshells and when a call goes out it will usually be around 5 mins before the "hunt dead" call goes out. People will repeatedly ask in LS and in Shout if others are on the way. If they are most people seem to have the courtesy to wait. On the rare occasion that someone does pull early that person is 1.) Called out and questioned by their actions. Then 2.) If they show no remorse as in "I'm not waiting for noobs" the they get blacklisted from the most popular hunt linkshells on the server. This system works and we rarely have early pulls.

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That sounds a lot like Coeurl. Hunts are quite friendly and polite. People ask if others are ready. When it seems most of the people interested are there, someone will announce a pull time. When that time comes, we pull. Sure there are still cases where people arrive late. (I've arrived late quite a few times myself.) But nobody gets upset about it, let alone try to blame it on others, because the pull was announced and agreed to.

People (well, one individual in particular) who can't accept that, and just pull without regard for anyone else, are shunned by the rest of the hunting community. (The player who gained notoriety on Coeurl for regularly early pulling, was doing so deliberately to grief everyone else, and bragged about doing so, laughing at anyone who lost out.) But that sort of thing doesn't come up often.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

S ranks tend to attract a nigh infinite string of people and virtually no matter when you pull, if someone doesn't make it, they'll start complaining about early pulling. It's a mini drama that plays out after every S rank in particular, even when I know the thing has been up 10 minutes already

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Must be a server specific issue. I've never seen that on Coeurl. If it's pulled at the announced and agreed upon pull time, nobody calls it an early pull. We'll get the occasional "Oh darn, missed it :(" type of comments after a hunt, but without any anger to them.

But yes, it will sometimes take over 10 minutes. The first announcement goes to shout and maybe one or two linkshells, but it's not until the people responding to that get there that it goes out to their other linkshells, and when that second wave arrives, they'll pass it to yet more, and so on. It can take a while, but that's the price of actually being polite and avoiding that drama some servers seem prone to.

Between tomestones and Allied/Centurio seals, an S rank gives around three times as much rewards as a dungeon that you'd spend 20 or 30 minutes on after waiting yet more time in queue. So if it takes more than 10 minutes for everyone to arrive, then you wait for more than 10 minutes. It would still be a great reward for time ratio at over twice that (though I've never known it to actually take twice that long).

Usually people will call out by shout "Anyone OTW (on the way)". If there's no response in, say 30s, then pulling commences. Obviously that's not done if there's not a sensible amount of people there to actually down the Hunt. There's zero point trying to solo or duo a HW A Rank, even if it's possible it is easy to fail or take an age to do it.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Must be a server specific issue. I've never seen that on Coeurl. If it's pulled at the announced and agreed upon pull time, nobody calls it an early pull. We'll get the occasional "Oh darn, missed it :(" type of comments after a hunt, but without any anger to them.

But yes, it will sometimes take over 10 minutes. The first announcement goes to shout and maybe one or two linkshells, but it's not until the people responding to that get there that it goes out to their other linkshells, and when that second wave arrives, they'll pass it to yet more, and so on. It can take a while, but that's the price of actually being polite and avoiding that drama some servers seem prone to.

Between tomestones and Allied/Centurio seals, an S rank gives around three times as much rewards as a dungeon that you'd spend 20 or 30 minutes on after waiting yet more time in queue. So if it takes more than 10 minutes for everyone to arrive, then you wait for more than 10 minutes. It would still be a great reward for time ratio at over twice that (though I've never known it to actually take twice that long).

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It's really not about whether it's still technically worth it or not. I'm pretty patient and I don't ever pull without total silence in response to "any more inc?" asked at least a few minutes after first call, but there's really no reason to hold up everyone while every last individual finishes dawdling or doing whatever they felt was more important while they make a few dozen people wait. At a certain point, it's just too bad, so sad. 10 minutes was a random number, but that's honestly a pretty long time for an S rank to be alive and is far more time than it takes to teleport and run or fly across any zone, even Azys Lla, if you make your way out shortly after the call starts going out. If it was important, they should have come out here earlier. Either way, it will be up again in a few days and they can try again. No big deal.

I run a hunt linkshell and help with another here on Leviathan. Some of the Levi folks may know them as The Hunters (my Linkshell), and Hunt Nerds (the one I help out with). We work together with a lot of other hunt linkshells on the server. About 4-6 months ago, a number of us were having a lot of complaints about hunts being 'early pulled'. Sadly, I realized two things a good portion of the way into the conversation:

1) We call it early pulling, but there is no defined time that people can agree upon for when it is considered 'early pulling'. It can sometimes take time to relay coordinates throughout all the linkshells. The only time I've found a definition of 'early pulling' is pulling on sight, which goes over really well with those who get there just as it dies.

2) There's always going to be one person who's late to the pull and say "You early pulled!". There's nothing we can really do since it was just circumstantial that person couldn't get out there. We've all realized that there's gonna be that one person, and that's just the sad reality.

My guess is that it was just poor communication on some people's parts and until the community as a whole can come up with a defnition for the phrase 'early pulling', all there is going to be is more complaints and more angry people. Most people forget about something like this not that long after though, so as long as it isn't constantly happening, you're probably good.

On my server the people who found the mob (or organised the hunt in some way like making a group) will shout a time that they're going to pull so everyone in zone knows and everyone in a party can communicate that information themselves. It also gives people in zone a heads up if they aren't in a LS or party finder, and gives them enough time to change jobs ready to fight properly. A five minute warning for an S is plenty for anyone to arrive unless they were dawdling. For an A they'll generally shout 'About to pull ____!' so anyone still running there can send them a tell if it's an emergency.