Good day
Rather often I look to the "others" sector of the PF and see almost only "LF NIN" or "LF DRG" from the groups, which seeks melee DD. Why not Monk? Because of the RAID UTILITY. Ninja gives+10% damage every 60 seconds, also Goad (TP restoration) also Shade walker and Smoke screen. Dragoon- permanent +10% dps for Mechanist or Bard and Crit buff for all the raid.
And what about Monk? INT reduce by 10%? Dark knight also have such skill. Mantra? Tiny 20% every 2 MINUTES for 15 seconds? Just a joke. DPS? Yes, Monk almost always top-dps, but it is just a self result. The common Total DPS will be better without monk- with Dragoon and Ninja only
When Ninja appeared, the best setup for raid consists NO MONK. Can SE make the Monk more attractive in 4.0? If no, Monk will be a dead class
What ideas do I have?
----Make Mantra more useful. Reduce CD till 1 minute, make the effect longer and more powerfull
OR
----totally rework the effect of mantra, make it something, that can raise the DPS of the raid
Thank you
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Anyone has another ideas how to make Monk more attractive for the raid groups?
Make the Monk great... again?..
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02-03-2017, 04:56 AMXynoMake the Monk great... again?..
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02-03-2017, 06:09 AMRisvertasashiThis is on par with the Scholar equivalent to divine seal, with only divine seal itself being more powerful. 20% is not tiny at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyno
The real issue which you seem to have picked up on even if you don't directly say it... It's not the utility people want. People don't want mitigation and healing buffs, they want DPS buffs because, well, maximizing DPS in every little way possible is the meta. (And with enrages it's no wonder).
If you want MNKs to be sought after like that, it needs to increase the raid's DPS, yes. But if it can be top DPS and also gets nin or drg-like raid buffs, then one of those 2 jobs will lose its meta spot... not an easy thing to balance. If it's even possible. On the flipside, most raiders I know would definitely take a MNK as long as they know the player is good... It might not be their picture perfect setup, but it's passable. -
02-03-2017, 06:15 AMXynoIm realy dont care how the Monk can become more popular- DPS utility or other, but right now (you are right) people only want to raise the raid DPS and Monk among the 3 melee DPS is the worst class for that. That is why I offered or to make Mantra more strong skill or rework it for raising DPS somehowQuote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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02-03-2017, 06:24 AMRisvertasashiMy suggestion, then, would be to advocate for raid DPS buffs. Mantra as a healing buff just isn't going to be sought after even if it's OP...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyno
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02-03-2017, 06:27 AMKai_Lee
My question to you is why would you want to join any group that has specific restrictions on job. To me those party has restrictions because they suck, plain and simple. If your good, regardless of what job you play, there is always a group around that would want you.
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02-03-2017, 06:32 AMaleph_null
It's not that people don't want mitigation/defensive utilities. It's just that those are not really necessary to survive anymore when you're geared enough, just like how early progression groups use vit melds, because otherwise they'd probably die. Back then the world first a8s clear team had their drg switch to mnk to help with the healing checks.
Once you're geared enough, those extra mitigation/defensive utilities don't matter unless they allow you to either cheese a mechanic (for more dps), or reduce the number of heals that need to be cast. Basically they're measured by how much extra healer/tank dps you can gain if you have those utilities. -
02-03-2017, 07:59 AMExiled_Tonberry
It's really just the META right now. Creator was too easy and people blew through it in a couple weeks. They realized they didn't need mantra or stuff like Cure III so they are kicked aside in favor of more DPS. Content atm rewards fast DPS so much too so that not helping at all. Being able to skip Lapis Lazuli and Soar is wonderful for both clear runs and farms, and bringing jobs that specialize in dmg utility makes that easier.
Perhaps in 4.0 we'll have a lot more damaging mechanics that will call for quick and strong healing that will make use of mantra and cure III, who knows.
@Risvertasashi: DRG currently is only 50-100 DPS away from most Monks. Monks could go for a little dmg utility and still be where they are right now. It's not like piercing debuff and Battle Litany are suddenly going to become weaker. It'll just be a harder choice to make, which is how it should be.
You should feel like you're giving up one set of important utility for another, and right now no one misses Monk at all.
Not bringing a Ninja is missing slashing debuff, enmity control, TP restoration and dmg up.
Not bringing DRG is missing piercing debuff which lowers BOTH Bard and MCH DPS. No battle Lit is missing out on aoe crit up which is insanely strong.
Not bringing Monk is out on mantra, which no one needs or cares about.
The weight of utility is extremely off balance. -
02-03-2017, 03:33 PMXynoExactly. The utility of DRagoon and Ninja skills never fades, but Utility of Mantra fades very fast, when the party gets a little better gear or doesn't exists at all (utility)!Quote:
Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry
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02-03-2017, 04:04 PMCookieMonstaActually, MNK was pretty strongly favored in A8S for the longest time because of a combination of how brutal the heal check was, the fact that DRK was unfavored due to Rocket Punch being physical and the fact the final tornado phase was nigh unskippable (cuz Mantra can buy you something like 2-3 extra jwaves which matched or outweighed DRG's superior DPS contribution).Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyno
While DRG promised more DPS in A8S, it was much much harder to execute therefore the whole meta was revolved around either high risk, high reward DRG-Nin comps or lower risk, consistent Nin-MNK comps. -
02-03-2017, 04:25 PMLunarEmerald
I don't think Monk offers enough dps to sacrifice utility that other melee jobs bring. Monk should be well above the others to justify bringing one over the others.
It should be on the level that when people ask who does the most dps, the immediate answer should be Monk. No argument. No ifs or buts. It's not that way now. -
02-03-2017, 04:31 PMXynototally agree. Right now Monk just slightly above in matter of DPS, it is no enough to take him in a party because of the great SELF-dps utilityQuote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
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02-03-2017, 04:55 PMExiled_TonberryThis as well. People severely overestimate the DPS capabilities of Monk.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
On similar player skill levels, a DRG having the same amount of uptime as a Monk will do about the same amount of dmg, 50-100 or so DPS short of eachother.
I could see if Monk did as much as a Black Mage, but the reality is it only barely brings more than another melee that offers more damage to the entire raid. -
02-03-2017, 06:57 PMCookieMonstaI think its actually more a function of raid design. They really need to design fights which have pros and cons of going either defensive-safe or offensive-risky. Like I said earlier with A8S, it was much riskier and harder to do DRK-Nin-DRG compared to doing PLD-Nin-MNK. Both approaches were viable because the fight was long and tedious enough that execution accuracy was a factor (hence the riskier DPS comp may mess up more and waste more time).Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarEmerald
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02-03-2017, 07:07 PMXynoOne of the main problem here is that the gear of the Monk, Dragoon and Ninja is not common like healers, tanks and other classes have. Yes, it is good to have Monk in one fight (with hard hps check) and Ninja-Dragoon for another, but the gear cant let you. If a player play by Monk, he cant just switch, he need an ALT. This variant is not suitable for most players, because the lack of time and it is TOO BORING to do all the actions for 2 characters every week- roulettes, raids and so on. Also it means, that all players in the raid must have ALTS too to go to the Savage two times per weekQuote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsta