SCH secondary stats question

so for the likes of Shire Preceptor's Hose, for SCH DPS and healing is it crit > speed > det? so i would meld speed in these?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

so for the likes of Shire Preceptor's Hose, for SCH DPS and healing is it crit > speed > det? so i would meld speed in these?

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You will never have room to meld anything, but crit or accuracy. Anywhere that has max crit, you'll want to fill with accuracy first. The cap is 593.

Typically when gearing I go for:

Accuracy to cap > Crit > Spell Speed > avoid Det. But some scholars really love det before SS. Det positively affects fairy embraces, where SS does not. I really hope they give SS a buff on pets to be at least a worse version of det.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

You will never have room to meld anything, but crit or accuracy. Anywhere that has max crit, you'll want to fill with accuracy first. The cap is 593.

Typically when gearing I go for:

Accuracy to cap > Crit > Spell Speed > avoid Det. But some scholars really love det before SS. Det positively affects fairy embraces, where SS does not. I really hope they give SS a buff on pets to be at least a worse version of det.

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I do not do high end raids, I do not need accuracy

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I do not do high end raids, I do not need accuracy

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If you don't value accuracy and you ONLY heal. Crit>Det>SS. You shouldn't run out of MP only healing, so piety is out the window.

For SCH DPS, the stat weights are (tested in 3.4):

• WD: 9.128
• INT: 1.000
• DET: 0.190
• CRT: 0.266
• SS: 0.316 – 0.366
• Acc: Cap it

(https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/stat-weights)


I've been picking SpS instead of Det because of this, but still preferring Crit over SpS because of healing.

Yes, definitely go with Crit > SpS if you're not doing EX trials or Savage. Since most of your DPS comes from DoTs, SpS gets weighted much higher than usual (like Dervy mentions).

Det has a far lower importance in 3.x than it did in 2.x. Changes to it mean that even melding with nothing but det will barely influence the heals from your fairy so it's a waste. Crit is a great boon for most spells & is what I concentrate on where possible. I also like a lot of accuracy because even outside of end content it's possible to miss on things like hunts & that's a bit annoying. Before they changed the EX dungeons like Antitower back to low-accuracy it was a nightmare seeing Energy Drain missing.

Obviously the Dervy quote has INT instead of MND & is a mistake. It should be WD>MND>CRIT/SpS>DET with crit or sps being up to you, depending on if you are intending to heal better or DPS better (no brainer for me - heal!). Accuracy should be capped if you can.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Det has a far lower importance in 3.x than it did in 2.x. Changes to it mean that even melding with nothing but det will barely influence the heals from your fairy so it's a waste. Crit is a great boon for most spells & is what I concentrate on where possible. I also like a lot of accuracy because even outside of end content it's possible to miss on things like hunts & that's a bit annoying. Before they changed the EX dungeons like Antitower back to low-accuracy it was a nightmare seeing Energy Drain missing.

Obviously the Dervy quote has INT instead of MND & is a mistake. It should be WD>MND>CRIT/SpS>DET with crit or sps being up to you, depending on if you are intending to heal better or DPS better (no brainer for me - heal!). Accuracy should be capped if you can.

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It's not a mistake, you technically need higher INT to do damage, but Cleric turns MND into INT.

But yeah, I agree with your priority list. Det is garbage for every Healer.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Det is garbage for everyone.

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Fixed that for you. :p Det is just a crappier version of the mainstats. I seriously don't get why they're keeping it around, it's not interesting at all.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I do not do high end raids, I do not need accuracy

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I understand that you probably don't get into Savage raids, but if you do Extreme primals you should get Accuracy anyways, as they tend to share accuracy caps or be close. If you do run EX primals, but you simply don't DPS at all on SCH then I'll be 100% honest, sell that materia instead of affixing it to your gear. Materia's effect on healing is kinda lame.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

It's not a mistake, you technically need higher INT to do damage, but Cleric turns MND into INT.

But yeah, I agree with your priority list. Det is garbage for every Healer.

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I get what you mean, I just wanted to make sure that nobody ever melded INT rather than something useful. XD

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

If you do run EX primals, but you simply don't DPS at all on SCH then I'll be 100% honest, sell that materia instead of affixing it to your gear.

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Correction:

If you do run EX Primals, but you simply don't DPS at all on SCH, then you really need to learn what the job is about as you're doing yourself & your team a great disservice.

There, fixed that for you. ;P

Guys, the lala don't do high-end content. They want to meld probably for the sake of more DPS for roulette speedruns. Stop pushing Accuracy.

I really hate getting det as 2nd stats, piety or ss still acceptable for me and crit is a MUST for SCH for more chance of crit adloquium.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Guys, the lala don't do high-end content. They want to meld probably for the sake of more DPS for roulette speedruns. Stop pushing Accuracy.

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Considering in my experience you can still miss with no accuracy melds in the level 60 dungeons, melding accuracy to DPS is still a decent idea.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Considering in my experience you can still miss with no accuracy melds in the level 60 dungeons, melding accuracy to DPS is still a decent idea.

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You can't, not anymore.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

You can't, not anymore.

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I'm sorry? I still see Broil miss, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

I haven't really played as a sch but I am interested in learning more, I know that because of the fairy you can dps more than on a job like whm. I would have to log in and check on what stats do what now as opposed to before but I personally focus more on high determination and spell speed for healers. From the last time I looked at the stat descriptions determination increases your healing potency, for a healer class I feel that having more consistent heals and faster cast times is better than trying to get crit heals and not getting a crit heal when you need to have one.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

I haven't really played as a sch but I am interested in learning more, I know that because of the fairy you can dps more than on a job like whm. I would have to log in and check on what stats do what now as opposed to before but I personally focus more on high determination and spell speed for healers. From the last time I looked at the stat descriptions determination increases your healing potency, for a healer class I feel that having more consistent heals and faster cast times is better than trying to get crit heals and not getting a crit heal when you need to have one.

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Crit Adloquium is amazing on SCH, hence the idea people want it. It doubles the shield you give, so a Crit 1000 heal gives a 2000 shield. There's no reason to not work as much crit as possible on a SCH.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I'm sorry? I still see Broil miss, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

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Ever since Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) and Antitower were released, the devs made adjustments so you would not miss anymore in level 60 dungeons. That was especifically made because healers with no ACC melds were missing too much.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I'm sorry? I still see Broil miss, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

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I haven't seen any misses beyond those from accuracy debuffs

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Originally Posted by seekified

Yes, definitely go with Crit > SpS if you're not doing EX trials or Savage. Since most of your DPS comes from DoTs, SpS gets weighted much higher than usual (like Dervy mentions).

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I think you meant sps > crit. (Assuming your concern is primarily with dps as op stated.)

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Ever since Lost City of Amdapor (Hard) and Antitower were released, the devs made adjustments so you would not miss anymore in level 60 dungeons. That was especifically made because healers with no ACC melds were missing too much.

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That's...Weird, because I've still been missing.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

That's...Weird, because I've still been missing.

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Can you describe specific situations where you have been missing? There might be other variables we're missing here.

If you're talking about the dungeons BEFORE 3.2, yes, I still miss there.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Can you describe specific situations where you have been missing? There might be other variables we're missing here.

If you're talking about the dungeons BEFORE 3.2, yes, I still miss there.

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Not off the top of my head, because I don't pay that much attention to misses because I have no accuracy melds.
Also, I don't run the 60 roulette much because I really rather avoid Neverreap if at all possible.

I'll keep an eye out to see if I notice again.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

I think you meant sps > crit. (Assuming your concern is primarily with dps as op stated.)

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I don't. Yes, SpS does have a higher weight for DPS, but Crit is still more important for healing. Plus, a critlo means not having to touch the tank for a good while.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Can you describe specific situations where you have been missing? There might be other variables we're missing here.

If you're talking about the dungeons BEFORE 3.2, yes, I still miss there.

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No she/ he is right. You can miss on the current expert dg. ( Dunno why since yoshi indeed said you wouldn't miss on casu content anymore)

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Originally Posted by seekified

I don't. Yes, SpS does have a higher weight for DPS, but Crit is still more important for healing. Plus, a critlo means not having to touch the tank for a good while.

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Indeed. Also, dervy said that for some reasons, the way you applies dot changes dramatically the Ss Weight. So i might not believe his stat Weight this time. I still think crit is better even for dps. But yeah det is garbage and ss is the way to go after crit !

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Originally Posted by Llynd

No she/ he is right. You can miss on the current expert dg. ( Dunno why since yoshi indeed said you wouldn't miss on casu content anymore)

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Are you sure? Because I'm a WHM with no accuracy melds as of now and I have yet to see my Assize miss.

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Originally Posted by Llynd

No she/ he is right. You can miss on the current expert dg. ( Dunno why since yoshi indeed said you wouldn't miss on casu content anymore)

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Don't get hit by the Accuracy debuff.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

I haven't really played as a sch but I am interested in learning more, I know that because of the fairy you can dps more than on a job like whm. I would have to log in and check on what stats do what now as opposed to before but I personally focus more on high determination and spell speed for healers. From the last time I looked at the stat descriptions determination increases your healing potency, for a healer class I feel that having more consistent heals and faster cast times is better than trying to get crit heals and not getting a crit heal when you need to have one.

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Here's some testing on healing stats for WHM and Diurnal AST: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mulas_and_more

For healing on these jobs too, it's Crit > SpS > Det

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Don't get hit by the Accuracy debuff.

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Just as a note, I never have been hit by it. I'll still be looking for it to pop up again, though.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Just as a note, I never have been hit by it. I'll still be looking for it to pop up again, though.

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If you can parse it and tell us exactly where in the dungeon you're missing, that'd help. ;3

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Correction:

If you do run EX Primals, but you simply don't DPS at all on SCH, then you really need to learn what the job is about as you're doing yourself & your team a great disservice.

There, fixed that for you. ;P

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Shrug. Tbh, I'm rather tired of pushing the healer DPS meta down heal-only healers, as much as I love optimizing (or trying to) my own DPS. Doesn't sound like the OP doesn't DPS, though, so I was just adding that as a tongue in cheek comment.

The OP never came back, so... :'D

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

so for the likes of Shire Preceptor's Hose, for SCH DPS and healing is it crit > speed > det? so i would meld speed in these?

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For damage: (51% of SCH damage are DoT's)
Acc > SS > Crit > Det

For heal only (which is impossible atm):
Crit > whatever you want to

Normally i'm over 90% in Cleric Stance. For 1-2 adlos each run crit isn't needed, cause you can never get a 100% crit adlo. It's always just luck.

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Originally Posted by seekified

I don't. Yes, SpS does have a higher weight for DPS, but Crit is still more important for healing. Plus, a critlo means not having to touch the tank for a good while.

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Well, then you're just wrong, because you're ignoring both the specific wording of OP's question, as well as the context of what content he's concerned with. Speed > crit, by a good 50%.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Are you sure? Because I'm a WHM with no accuracy melds as of now and I have yet to see my Assize miss.

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Mmmh i don't know then... I've Just seen some misses with my alt because i didn't had the acc cap at all. Since I'm at 600 acc on my main i cannot verify anymore x)

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Well, then you're just wrong, because you're ignoring both the specific wording of OP's question, as well as the context of what content he's concerned with. Speed > crit, by a good 50%.

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The OP says "for SCH DPS and healing", and the player in question does not do EX/Savage content. Thus, SpS > Crit is correct for DPS, but as he also mentions the "healing" part, I assume that he (rightly) is also concerned with optimizing healing, for which Crit is vastly better than SpS. The post also mentions the Shire Preceptor's Hose, which of course can't take any more Crit and thus he should meld SpS. I don't see where I missed something.

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Originally Posted by seekified

The OP says "for SCH DPS and healing", and the player in question does not do EX/Savage content. Thus, SpS > Crit is correct for DPS, but as he also mentions the "healing" part, I assume that he (rightly) is also concerned with optimizing healing, for which Crit is vastly better than SpS. The post also mentions the Shire Preceptor's Hose, which of course can't take any more Crit and thus he should meld SpS. I don't see where I missed something.

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It's not vastly superior for that content, where you neither need nor rely on crits, and a good amount of time just make your fairy more bored by getting them. As for his request being about that piece of gear, giving him the general rule is far better than just telling him "meld this on that" which still leaves him possibly confused later down the road.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

If you can parse it and tell us exactly where in the dungeon you're missing, that'd help. ;3

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I don't have any means to do such a thing, but I will try to keep track of if/when it happens.