DPS Job with no wated ability in rotation?

Hi all you fabulous DPS players! I have a question for you guys that I hope you can answer.

Is there a DPS class that, in it's skill set and rotation, doesn't have a wasted skill?

What I mean by wasted skill is like Storms Eye for WAR, Rage of Halone for PLD, or Dragons Kick for MNK. Those skills are not "wasted" but just less optimal when another class is around or it simple does less damage. This also isn't the same thing as BLM's Freeze spell where it doesn't really fit into any rotation.

Using the tanks as examples are bad because both skills have their place, just for optimal DPS they do not, and everyone in this game seems to want optimal DPS.

Your idea for wasted skills is really weird, but whatever.

To answer the question, DRG BLM SMN BRD MCH should fits your criteria.

Also WAR's Storm's Eye is not a wasted skill since it comes after Maim, which is forced into your rotation anyway.

Storm's eye and Halone wasted? I go full whine mode if there's not a War applying eye in my party when I'm on nin. Halone is needed for aggro as main tank. DK has blunt damage down which makes it needed even without int down.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

Your idea for wasted skills is really weird, but whatever.

To answer the question, DRG BLM SMN BRD MCH should fits your criteria.

Also WAR's Storm's Eye is not a wasted skill since it comes after Maim, which is forced into your rotation anyway.

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Those skills are not "wasted" but just less optimal when another class is around or it simple does less damage.

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Even when you try to cover all your bases...

Lol. By your definition, all skills must be 'wasted skills'...Any skill that is a key part of the classes main rotation can never, under any circumstances, be called wasted.

How in the world is storm's eye (slashing resist down) wasted? Even if the combo does a bit less dmg than block combo you still need to keep maim (20% dmg) up all the time, even if you have a ninja doing the slashing resist down for you, which is much less efficient than you being in charge of it since the ninja can use higher potency skills. Another thing to note is that when you're not currently holding aggro, spamming block combo too much is detrimental to your other tank's dps, so you should be using storm's eye more often.

If you meant storm's path (-10% dmg) it's a good skill for early progression/farming when you're still not geared enough (when your dps/healers risk getting one shot by aoes). Situational, yes. Wasted, no.

Halone is a low potency skill but still required to do tank swaps or pulls. Even though you want to minimize its usage, it's not wasted, just situational like storm's path.

Dragon kick is monk's blunt resist down debuff which can't be replaced by anything else currently in the game. Even when you have a drk for int down you should still use it for your own dps.

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Originally Posted by xvshanevx

Even when you try to cover all your bases...

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Not really sure what your point is.

Ok, PLD can skip halone with sufficient aggro, MNK can skip DK if there is another MNK applying it.
But WAR does NOT skip Eye in its optimal DPS rotation even if other WAR or NIN are applying slashing debuff, it is therefore, not a wasted skill by your very own criteria.

Uh....Storm's Eye SHOULD be used by a Warrior. It is a DPS loss for a Ninja to add it to their rotation, where it is natural for a WAR.

It isn't "less optimal" for a Warrior to apply the slash debuff, that's exactly what should be happening for optimal DPS, so that the Ninja can focus on pumping out more damage.

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Originally Posted by xvshanevx

BLM's Freeze spell where it doesn't really fit into any rotation.

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That's a little misleading, since Freeze is commonly optimal in BLM AoE rotation.

1 - AoE trash pack, you've just used Flare > Transpose, and everything is under 15% or so HP. You could use Fire 3 > Fire 2 to finish off the group. During that time, if your target dies before you spell finishes, you might as well standing there doing nothing. Casting Freeze twice does more damage, and targets a spot on the ground, so it completes no matter what.

2 - Large group (8+) with high spell speed (1200+). Replacing Flare with Blizzard 3 > Freeze results in more damage if the pack survives for more than 30 seconds or so.

Optimal AoE damage rotations are based around infinite HP (and TP for physical dps), when you factor in actual HP, optimal rotation changes quite a bit.

I believe people have misunderstood the OP, anyways.

I can't think of any wasted skills. I think for example if you had DRK and MNK then the DRK will not use Delirium since it does not stack with MNKs Dragon Kick. In this case it cosidered a wasted skill.

NIN and WAR have storms eye and WAR is expected to use it.

So it will depend on the party composition.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I believe people have misunderstood the OP, anyways.

I can't think of any wasted skills. I think for example if you had DRK and MNK then the DRK will not use Delirium since it does not stack with MNKs Dragon Kick. In this case it cosidered a wasted skill.

NIN and WAR have storms eye and WAR is expected to use it.

So it will depend on the party composition.

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DRK will still use Delirium even with MNK in party actually. I will have you guess why yourself.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

DRK will still use Delirium even with MNK in party actually. I will have you guess why yourself.

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Sorry I don't main DRK so i'll take a guess and say because it is 280 combo potency?

The reason I mentiomed this is because I was practicing on dummy with a MNK and saw that he overwrote it with Dragon Kick :)

Please do tell me as I am really interested in learning DRK.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

Sorry I don't main DRK so i'll take a guess and say because it is 280 combo potency?

The reason I mentiomed this is because I was practicing on dummy with a MNK and saw that he overwrote it with Dragon Kick :)

Please do tell me as I am really interested in learning DRK.

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Because Delirium is the best attack a DRK has without expending large quantities of MP. It is essentially the bread and butter of your combos since it combos off of the attack that gets you MP. The actual effect that's applied has no bearing on why you use it as a DRK. This is similar to the Storm's Eye argument in this thread since it combos off of an ability you have to use in your rotation to function anyway.

I would also point out that when a DRK is using Delirium, that doesn't mean that a MNK can skip Dragon Kick since it doesn't apply the blunt resistance down (which is also the reason why Dragon Kick will always override Delirium).

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Because Delirium is the best attack a DRK has without expending large quantities of MP. It is essentially the bread and butter of your combos since it combos off of the attack that gets you MP. The actual effect that's applied has no bearing on why you use it as a DRK. This is similar to the Storm's Eye argument in this thread since it combos off of an ability you have to use in your rotation to function anyway.

I would also point out that when a DRK is using Delirium, that doesn't mean that a MNK can skip Dragon Kick since it doesn't apply the blunt resistance down (which is also the reason why Dragon Kick will always override Delirium).

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I see, I did use it when trying to regenerate MP on dummy.
But most of the time I went for:

Power Slash 300 combo potency.
Souleater + Dark Arts 400 combo potency.

I lasted around 5 minutes on dummy without dropping Darkside

I did use Delirium but not as often as Power Slash.
I went for it whenever I felt low at MP and Blood Weapon was on CD since Blood Price is useless on dummy.


Thank-you for your answer I'll try using it more now ^^

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I see, I did use it when trying to regenerate MP on dummy.
But most of the time I went for:

Power Slash 300 combo potency.
Souleater + Dark Arts 400 combo potency.

I lasted around 5 minutes on dummy without dropping Darkside

I did use Delirium but not as often as Power Slash.
I went for it whenever I felt low at MP and Blood Weapon was on CD since Blood Price is useless on dummy.


Thank-you for your answer I'll try using it more now ^^

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You're looking at this from the incorrect perspective.

When comparing combo weaponskill, you have to factor in the whole combo chain potency(and divides by the number of GCD used if you want to compare it to single GCD skill, such as Scourge or Fracture).

Therefore, for comparison's sake it would look like this:

Power Slash Combo : 150 + 220 + 300 = 670 Potency

Soul Eater Combo (No DA) : 150 + 250 + 240 = 640 Potency +MP

Soul Eater Combo (With DA) : 150 + 250 + 400 = 800 Potency +MP

Delirium Combo : 150 + 250 + 280 = 680 Potency +MP

As you can see, Delirium Combo does more damage than Power Slash Combo, while also gives you MP to use with Dark Arts and such.

^
Thanks for sharing the numbers with me ^^ I see i've been doing something wrong there.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I believe people have misunderstood the OP, anyways.

I can't think of any wasted skills. I think for example if you had DRK and MNK then the DRK will not use Delirium since it does not stack with MNKs Dragon Kick. In this case it cosidered a wasted skill.

NIN and WAR have storms eye and WAR is expected to use it.

So it will depend on the party composition.

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WAR is expected to use it because it is a dps loss for the NIN to apply it and in raid situations a WAR will use that skill anyway since you produce less hate than with butchers.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

WAR is expected to use it because it is a dps loss for the NIN to apply it and in raid situations a WAR will use that skill anyway since you produce less hate than with butchers.

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Yep my friend who mains NIN explained that to me.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

WAR is expected to use it because it is a dps loss for the NIN to apply it and in raid situations a WAR will use that skill anyway since you produce less hate than with butchers.

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That isn't the reason warriors will use it regardless. It's part of their rotation, ninja or not, main or off tank.

Dont feed the idiot trolls

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Originally Posted by xvshanevx

Hi all you fabulous DPS players! I have a question for you guys that I hope you can answer.

Is there a DPS class that, in it's skill set and rotation, doesn't have a wasted skill?

What I mean by wasted skill is like Storms Eye for WAR, Rage of Halone for PLD, or Dragons Kick for MNK. Those skills are not "wasted" but just less optimal when another class is around or it simple does less damage. This also isn't the same thing as BLM's Freeze spell where it doesn't really fit into any rotation.

Using the tanks as examples are bad because both skills have their place, just for optimal DPS they do not, and everyone in this game seems to want optimal DPS.

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First of all... are you talking about casual content or about raids/statics? If we talk about casual content do you really mind party constellations at all? Play whatever you have the most fun with. Even for random raids i wouldn't chose my cls for the effectivnes of a grp ill never see again... static and perm farms well... it's a matter of how serious your mates are...

2nd every skill got his place in this game, topics like this show up time by time - talking about "useless" or "wasted" skills... in most cases only the question itself shows that those people haven't got in touch with all the modes the game provides... skills which seem "useless" in casual runs might be life-saver in raids or pvp. therefor i don't get all these "useless" skill discussions...

3rd this thread shows that you took your personal opinion as a fact like the storms eye example which honestly isn't true at all... so well maybe you can clearify your point a bit?