[dev1206] Conjurer Ability 1

Firstly,

I would like to state that this is not a thread about the reduced number of spells for mage classes, but rather a single ability analysis with regards to the stream lining of skills to maintain usefulness.

On to the meat of the topic.

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CNJ ABL 1 - Grants AoE to next enhancing magic spell, but increases cast time.

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Sounds great right? Makes your Buffs AOE! The issue is, Buff's have been streamlined down to 2 spells.

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CNJ Mag. 5 - Creates a barrier around the target that prevents a fixed amount of damage.

CNJ MAG. 6 - Increases the defense of all party members within range of the target.

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But CNJ MAG. 6 is already an AOE Spell. So the only Enhancing Magic spell for CNJ is MAG. 5

Even with the introduction of WHM we get

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WHM MAG. 1 - Removes an enfeebling effect from the target.

WHM MAG. 2 - Gradually restores the target's HP.

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WHM MAG. 1 is only arguably an enhancing effect, which means there are only 2, Maybe 3 enhancing spells.

Is it really worth having CON ABL. 1? or should these other spells just have the toggle AOE option with the same effect? if its toggled on, you get the longer cast time/higher mp cost?


note: I am aware this does not take into account cross classing of skills, and unfortunately due to being at work I dont really have time at the moment to check out all of the classes, but are there enough to justify having this ability?

The thing is, they're getting rid of aoe toggle. Also I would imagine there would be more enhancing magic as the cap is raised eventually.

So until WHM comes out, CNJ has an ability that only works with 1 Spell. And then get it gets another spell to use it with? I don't think that this is a sensible move away from the toggle.

THM Mag. 2: Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.

we have 2! lol

Doesn't sound as nice as

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CNJ ABL. 4 - Gradually stores MP while reducing HP. Effect fades and stored MP is obtained upon reuse.

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Since mages should not be getting hit!

::edit:: this is an ability not magic, so is not subject to the aoe ability.

I guess it could be handy for some situations? lol

Thaumatank?

Can't see much problem here, for three reasons:

1 - Cap Increase may bring more enhancing spells to both Conjurer and other classes

2 - The skill (and likely some of the new spells) can be cross classed

3 - New classes / jobs may have more enhancing spells.

So yeah, while it's not *that* useful right now, it will surely be in the future.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

Thaumatank?

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YES I CAN TANK EVERYTHING AGAIN.

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Though known for their inherently weak defenses,

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nevermind... ; ;

Will spells for Conjurer be slightly more useless?

That's impossible. It's like saying someone is slightly more dead.

There are only 2 conj abilities worth anything. Cure and Stoneskin (or whatever else they're going to call the defense ability). Who cares about the rest.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Can't see much problem here, for three reasons:

1 - Cap Increase may bring more enhancing spells to both Conjurer and other classes
-> There are currently no planned Cap increases
2 - The skill (and likely some of the new spells) can be cross classed
-> As advised there is only 1 other cross class spell that is applicable from Thaum
3 - New classes / jobs may have more enhancing spells.
-> After checking the jobs only the WHM i listed in OP are likely to be applicable
So yeah, while it's not *that* useful right now, it will surely be in the future.
Come february when jobs come out we will have a max of 4 spells that can be made AOE from this

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So whats the point in having this barely used ability instead of a toggle AOE button?

They couldn't think of enough spells to fill the cnj action bar so they put this one in.

J/K of course, don't be mad at me. :p

More seriously, I think this is a basic ability to have for a mage but they should give it to us later when it would be applicable to more spells rather than in the next patch.

There is always a method to the madness. I think.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

So whats the point in having this barely used ability instead of a toggle AOE button?

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Because a toggle AoE was more broken than anything. You damaged everything the exact same when you AoE or didn't AoE. I'm glad they got rid of it.

And as for this enhancing spells becoming AoE, you don't know how long of a recast stoneskin is or how much stronger it'll be since it scales with levels. WAIT till 1.20 please.... again

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Originally Posted by Junpei

So whats the point in having this barely used ability instead of a toggle AOE button?

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I said "future", which may or may not be before 2.0. Up to 1.21, at least, it's indeed just the skills you've mentioned. As for level cap increase, it may be considered after 1.21. It's not confirmed, but Yoshi-P himself has not dismissed the possibility of increasing the cap or adding a new class before 2.0.

And I too, agree that the AoE toggle was a very good and useful idea, however a *lot* of players would like it to be gone, and it seems that this is what's going to happen.

It says "on the next enhancing effect". To me that implies some cooldown. Could be totally wrong but depending on how often you can burn that, insofar as the enhancing spell you cast, you wouldn't usefully be able to put two enhancing effects up on your party in a timely manner anyhow.

You could be left spamming that 1 ability whenever the CD is up on that 1 barrier (read: stoneskin by a different name).

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Because a toggle AoE was more broken than anything. You damaged everything the exact same when you AoE or didn't AoE. I'm glad they got rid of it.

And as for this enhancing spells becoming AoE, you don't know how long of a recast stoneskin is or how much stronger it'll be since it scales with levels. WAIT till 1.20 please.... again

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I am not disputing that something needs to be done about the AOE attack spells we currently have, but the fact is they could just make all positive effects AOE as there are only 2 none AOE buffs in the 2.0 specification. and the thaum spell would never be needed AOE! They stated they did not want unused abilities and to make them all worthwhile, this is the complete opposite of that mantra.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

I said "future", which may or may not be before 2.0. Up to 1.21, at least, it's indeed just the skills you've mentioned.

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I see were you are coming from, its a tough move for them. If they give it us now, its limited use, if they give it us later, we're gonna have abilities in the meantime that really need to be AOE but arent.
Maybe if the protect/shell spell (the only other enhancing spell) wasn't AOE by default it would make more sense to have CNJ ABL. 1, then it would be a strategic choice on which spell to AOE. Either get 2 con's to cover the party with both, or protect everyone and stone skin the tank.

I just hope that stone skin comes before CNJ ABL1. when levelling up. Otherwise it really will be a DUD skill for new conjurers.

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Originally Posted by Junpei

I am not disputing that something needs to be done about the AOE attack spells we currently have, but the fact is they could just make all positive effects AOE as there are only 2 none AOE buffs in the 2.0 specification. and the thaum spell would never be needed AOE! They stated they did not want unused abilities and to make them all worthwhile, this is the complete opposite of that mantra.



I see were you are coming from, its a tough move for them. If they give it us now, its limited use, if they give it us later, we're gonna have abilities in the meantime that really need to be AOE but arent.
Maybe if the protect/shell spell (the only other enhancing spell) wasn't AOE by default it would make more sense to have CNJ ABL. 1, then it would be a strategic choice on which spell to AOE. Either get 2 con's to cover the party with both, or protect everyone and stone skin the tank.

I just hope that stone skin comes before CNJ ABL1. when levelling up. Otherwise it really will be a DUD skill for new conjurers.

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But you're not understanding what I'm getting at. Spells gain potency as you level up, there's no fixed rate or cap on how much they can enhace you for. Who knows, stoneskin (or whatev new name is) can protect up to 1k damage at high levels. If this ability could be recast timer of lets say 3 min, you would have to plan out when you should use the ability instead of spamming it whenever it's ready.

I know this is all speculation but you just have to wait and see how things turn out before you blow up. I thought more people were gonna blow up about the THM distance ability more than this one.

they do, look the thm section :P anyhow, maybe that ability too have it's uses, we can't really know right now.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

they do, look the thm section :P anyhow, maybe that ability too have it's uses, we can't really know right now.

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I'm curious on what that one is gonna be for... only time will tell and we have atleast 13 days till 1.20 :D

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

But you're not understanding what I'm getting at. Spells gain potency as you level up, there's no fixed rate or cap on how much they can enhace you for. Who knows, stoneskin (or whatev new name is) can protect up to 1k damage at high levels. If this ability could be recast timer of lets say 3 min, you would have to plan out when you should use the ability instead of spamming it whenever it's ready.

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Ah I see, so Stoneskin single cast for tank most of the time, when you know an AOE like hellfire is coming you pop the AOE Stoneskin. The entire general use of stone skin itself could be wildly changed. There are many exciting things changing in Eorzea!

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Originally Posted by Junpei

Ah I see, so Stoneskin single cast for tank most of the time, when you know an AOE like hellfire is coming you pop the AOE Stoneskin. The entire general use of stone skin itself could be wildly changed. There are many exciting things changing in Eorzea!

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Yes, with the AoE system before, everything was spammed, especially stoneskin. I think the changes are just going to promote more strategy than anything.

Also they could end up deciding to make the defense boost spell single target only, depending on how balance is, although I really hope it doesn't go down that route.