levelling SMN, i almost got kick by tank because i have no aggro.... huh?

short story is, i went DF levelling, got level 20's dungeon (forgot the name), i think i play it right (cast all dot, pet attack as usual, ruin if all dot is up)

then suddenly tank told me that if i keep this up he's going to kick me, i was like "wha? why?" then he said some insult whatever it is telling me that iam a laziest dps out there only telling my pet to attack while i didnt do anything, i raise my voice then he said "then why your aggro is not even 1/4 the bar? look, even healer is more than you"

is this common? i mean, we mostly do dot right? in my mmo experience i always think dot skill is like slow burner in aggro department, unlike melee or direct damage class, its not like our aggro is going through the roof in instant right?

sorry if my words is a bit hard to read, iam really confused right now (for now i just blacklist that tank lol)

Blist, move on. He has no clue what he is talking about. Just a glance at the party list or the Mobs Dots would have sufficed for him to see that you are doing something. But he can't even do that, what a terrible player throwing out judgement before observing and analyzing properly.
You dot, you ruin. Not much else you can do when synched to level 20 as SMN.

Lolz, now tanks are complaining about NOT losing aggro to dps in low level dungeons?

Cherub's got it right, dots and ruin. Not much else.

Cherub has the gist of it, That was a scrub tank and you shouldn't let it bother you. At that lvl there is nothing to do but spread dots, keep them up and ruin. The healer had more aggro than you because in a low lvl dungeon like that they can heal(which generates aggro) and dps too. Garbage tank was prob only looking at the aggro from 1 mob also.

Ah, this tank is an idiot then. The aggro list has nothing to do with the amount of DPS. Summoners dps comes from dots and a pet which generate much less aggro then say, a black Mage contstantly firing off spells. As people have said before, blist and move on. You have done nothing wrong.

Hahahahahahaha! Oh, wow. Yeah, what the others said.
Don't even bother thinking about it. That tank was dumb.

He was probably actually parsing your dps but since parsing is against ToS he used the aggro meter to call you out instead. Which as you correctly stated is not really an accurate measure of smn dps since DoT accrues aggro more slowly and also because a large portion of Your damage comes from your pet and aggro with pets is not shared with the master.

In any case, at level 20, no one really does that great dps, so unless you really were just letting the pet do all the damage as he claimed, then his attack on you is not really warranted.

As a side note, it seemed like he didn't much understand how the smn class works as evidenced by his ill informed statements about smn aggro generation, which means if he was parsing as I suspect, he likely also didnt understand how to correctly set up his parser to accurately parse DoT ticks or combine the pet's dps with the master, both of which would have made your dps look really low on the parser even if you were performing normally. I suspect this is probably what happened in this case.

In short, as others have stated, that guy was a moron, just /blist and move on.

At around level 20 acn/smn would get better mileage from fanning dots to every mob as opposed to say a melee focusing down one at a time, on top of the fact that the pet does a good percentage of the smn's output.
Suggesting the aggro gauge of a single mob to be a dps metric's usually terrible.

Also, a healer's cure is like... around 30-50% of a tank's hp that level? So their threat gain is relatively large also.

thanks guys, that sure relieved me a lot, i was afraid i play it wrong, 1 thing scares me when i try new class is that i dont want to "ruin" that class reputation, coming from healer main so i guess i just try as much as i can to avoid conflict with real people, being hate and avoid by people is healer nightmare.

i just realized that tank probably has the same interface setup like me, i play with flying text (damage number) off and turn on the "display only detrimental effects you inflict", dont like my screen bloated with numbers

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

He was probably actually parsing your dps...snipped the rest.

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If someone is parsing in a low level dungeon, he deserves a smack right into his face and to be honest i think this tank was not parsing, he is just one of the people who think that the aggro bars show the actual dps.

This tanks argument makes sense at level 50+ or so.
At level 20, perhaps not.

Even at 50+ smn generally have low aggro for single target fight but when it comes to aoe thats a whole new story.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

This tanks argument makes sense at level 50+ or so.
At level 20, perhaps not.

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This argument makes no sense at any level. You cannot use aggro numbers as a measure of someone's DPS, especially a summoner's.

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Originally Posted by Griffey

This argument makes no sense at any level. You cannot use aggro numbers as a measure of someone's DPS, especially a summoner's.

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You can somewhat. SMNS AOE setup is ridiculous and incredibly bursty without even counting the pet.
RS, Dots, Contagion + Bane, M2, SF, B2 Spam, PF, SF.

@ lvl 20 it is still pretty strong with B/M on adds and B2 Spam with 2+ targets, while weaving Energy Drains. Probably stronger than most at that level.

A small tip for low Lv ACN, your DoTs dotn always last the full duration, and sometimes not even more than 3 ticks.
You'll want to judge how long the 1st mob will live, to see how many DoTs you put on them.
Sometimes just Bio (then DoT the rest of the group) and then spam ruin works, as the 1st mob might be dead before you even return to it.

It really depends on the groups killing speed though.

Probably he is expecting to lose aggro to casters and ranged at low level.
That did not happen and he came to conclustion that dps is low.

I would't measure dps by looking at the aggro bar.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

If someone is parsing in a low level dungeon, he deserves a smack right into his face

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Off-topic somewhat, but parsing in a low level dungeon when playing as a healer gives me a fun personal challenge. I don't say anything about it obviously since it's just for my own enjoyment, but I love trying to, and often succeeding at, out dps-ing the at-level dps. Makes those snooze-fest dungeons less of a snooze.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

You can somewhat. SMNS AOE setup is ridiculous and incredibly bursty without even counting the pet.
RS, Dots, Contagion + Bane, M2, SF, B2 Spam, PF, SF.

@ lvl 20 it is still pretty strong with B/M on adds and B2 Spam with 2+ targets, while weaving Energy Drains. Probably stronger than most at that level.

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Whats your point? I play summoner in my raid group so I know what kind of DPS they are capable of. I am not trying to say summoner doesn't accrue aggro. What I am saying is that the aggro list does NOT give an accurate measure of someone's DPS, and should NOT be used as an excuse to kick someone.

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Originally Posted by Griffey

Whats your point? I play summoner in my raid group so I know what kind of DPS they are capable of. I am not trying to say summoner doesn't accrue aggro. What I am saying is that the aggro list does NOT give an accurate measure of someone's DPS, and should NOT be used as an excuse to kick someone.

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Just saying that SMN is typically almost stealing agro on all mobs all the time until they have Quelling Strikes. (At least where multiple mobs in dungeons are involved). I play Scholar in my Raid group and it was the same thing with SCH.

Not saying that the agro list is an accurate measure of DPS, but with how Enmity is calculated, the higher you are the agro list without enmity reducing skills the better.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

the higher you are the agro list without enmity reducing skills the better.

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thats the point he's talking about... plus the fact that 1/3 of your dmg is separated by the Egi. I think this is what he meant with "especially smns" - smns agro list with quelling & egi just says nothing about your personal dps... i just smile if my raid mates (Nin/Mnk) fall apart not because i am soooo super awesome but cause i know they just have messed up their rota if i climb to the top. ^^

I admit at those lower levels as ACN... you really have no major damage to speak of.

You get a lot of trash throughout the dungeons, and you have no AoEs to deal with them at that level. especially on the first ones, you have a whopping Bio and Miasma, and Topaz + Emerald. You have almost no damage to deal with multiple mobs.

(continued)



The only thing I found at those levels for big damage in dungeons is the sub Blizzard 2 from level 12 THM, and spam it. And combine with the AoE attack from Topaz. You can literally spam Blizzard 2 as ACN/SMN then crack Aetherflow on the last mob and Energy Drain with all your MP back and ready for the next. And it locks the Mobs in place for the Tank, so a good assist there too.

Limit Break guage fills up really fast, and when you use it as a Caster you get an enormous AoE to polish everything off.

Single Targets you can concentrate on the DoTs more and use Emerald but when clearing trash... well you're better off tossing a Bio on the main target and spamming Blizzard 2.Later once you get Bio2 and when you eventually get Bane... then you have good AoE by instantly spreading it to all other targets.

But luckily you can steal this trick from the THM/BLM to get you through the first 3-5 Dungeons.

SMN pets also do around 25~% of your damage & they have their own aggro bar completely separate of yours...but otherwise honestly aggro isn't a bad indicator at determining damage as almost no dps I come across actually use their aggro skills in DF & even if they do, they'll always catch up eventually.

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Originally Posted by gumas

short story is, i went DF levelling, got level 20's dungeon (forgot the name), i think i play it right (cast all dot, pet attack as usual, ruin if all dot is up)

then suddenly tank told me that if i keep this up he's going to kick me, i was like "wha? why?" then he said some insult whatever it is telling me that iam a laziest dps out there only telling my pet to attack while i didnt do anything, i raise my voice then he said "then why your aggro is not even 1/4 the bar? look, even healer is more than you"

is this common? i mean, we mostly do dot right? in my mmo experience i always think dot skill is like slow burner in aggro department, unlike melee or direct damage class, its not like our aggro is going through the roof in instant right?

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Sounds like a player that has no idea what he/she is talking about. Can't be a lazy dps if you stealing hate from the tank lol. That's on his/her part in not playing the role of a tank.....to hold hate.