the 4th Mudra for Ninja in 4.0?

So ever since the introduction of the 4th Mudra in 2.0 within a Job Quest the question remained on my mind "how long until the 4th Mudra is obtained?"

So do you think the 4th Mudra may finally be obtained in 4.0 for Ninja?

For me....

A part of me hope it is obtained in 4.0 so that part of the Ninja's Job Story left unfinished can finally be put to rest and also hope we get new Mudra skills like Ten-Bu-Ren-Ka (with the mudra name altered to suite FF14 Ninja's Mudra of course) as part of the 4th Mudra skills

You see Ten-Bu-Ren-Ka on 0:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6XijGowlOA

I doubt so - because the mythical 4th mudra is nothing but another "Ten".

Gekkai was cheating all along.

The number of combinations that would unlock is enormous. Seems rough.

I don't actually remember that ever getting mentioned, which quest was that?

Gameplaywise, that would probably get too difficult, too many combinations to remember :x

Storywise, it would make more sense to obtain it from a future expansion when we go to Othard/Doma. Like finding a secret art in the country the art originated from :)

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I don't actually remember that ever getting mentioned, which quest was that?

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In the 50 quest. It's part of the combat dialogue.

As for how many combinations it would unlock: Only 6. All mudra combinations right now only depend on the last mudra done and the amount of mudras done before, "not" the order of the mudras. Chi-Ten-Jin = Ten-Chi-Jin. Ten-Jin = Chi-Jin. So it would unlock 4 mudra combinations with 4 mudras involved (one for each ending), 1 for the 3-mudra sequence ending and 1 for the 2-mudra sequence ending.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

In the 50 quest. It's part of the combat dialogue.

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Yep it was in the level 50 battle dialogue and from what it is said in the dialogue the 4th Mudra is considered a myth and legend in Doma so that person probably did not obtain the 4th Mudra in Othard/Doma but sometime after he left Othard/Doma.

That begs the question where is the knowledge of the 4th Mudra then if it is not in Othard/Doma?

Since with 3 mudras you usualy only use fuma shuriken to avoid clipping expect in particular situation, what's the point in adding another one that would make things even worse?

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

[...] and from what it is said in the dialogue the 4th Mudra is considered a myth and legend in Doma [...]

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https://xivdb.com/quest/65770/master+and+student
I can't find that quote in the quests I'm afraid. Oboro himself says that he always thought the 4th mudra was just a myth - but that's just him. It should also be noted that Shinobi village =/= Doma. Doma was assaulted, Gekkais shinobi village not. It's quite likely the 4th mudra is just a very tightly kept clan secret and I would not be surprised if there were other ninja clans with different secret techniques. Ninjas do not hail from Othard proper after all, but rather from an archipelago east of Othard.

That said, I would wager since Gekkais clan was sworn to protect the people of Doma and Sasuke's clan is the only one named to join forces with the Warlords of Doma, he's a descendant of Sasuke's clan. But that's pure speculation.

Note: A lot of this is information from the lore book, so don't feel bad if you didn't know. If you can find a transcript or screenshot of the ninja pages, you can look it up yourself.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

As for how many combinations it would unlock: Only 6.

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You say that like adding 6 more skills to a class isn't an enormous amount, especially when they said they'd like to not add as many this time around.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

You say that like adding 6 more skills to a class isn't an enormous amount, especially when they said they'd like to not add as many this time around.

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I say it like that because you add only one button. The reason SE doesn't want to introduce lots of new abilities (and might actually prune some) is because of hotbar bloat - gotta place all the abilities somewhere on your hotbars. In that regard, 6 skills that take 6 slots is quite a lot - 6 skills that only take 1 slot is a lot less. Due to this, NIN currently has more skills than most jobs, but doesn't require more hotbar space.

I'd say, if we get the 4th mudra, it wouldnt be like the other mudras like that you need to do 4 mudra combinations and get more skills, that would be way too many skills since you could also do 2 and 3 mudra combos with the 4th one so yeah, that are too many skills.
I see it more like a mudra that you can only use once in a while , or even only with kassatsu , that you use after any kind of 3 step mudra to summon doppelgangers named ten, chi , jin, like in the jobquest ^^ and i think it would be more like a strong attack with those doppelgangers attacking at the same time and then vanish rather than you got 3 doppelgangers fighting for a while with you

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I say it like that because you add only one button. The reason SE doesn't want to introduce lots of new abilities (and might actually prune some) is because of hotbar bloat - gotta place all the abilities somewhere on your hotbars. In that regard, 6 skills that take 6 slots is quite a lot - 6 skills that only take 1 slot is a lot less. Due to this, NIN currently has more skills than most jobs, but doesn't require more hotbar space.

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It's not a matter of button count, it's a matter of complexity. Yoshida said that he likes the current difficulty/complexity (depending on which translation you see) for jobs and wants them to stay roughly the same in Stormblood. The only way to do that and add six skills with your new Mudra would be to remove a whole ton of stuff that already exists.

And besides, removing buttons from the hotbar is simple. That part's incredibly easy from a design standpoint, and definitely possible from a technical standpoint. It just likely requires too many adjustments and would be a jarring change to many classes, so they're saving it for the expansion.

I doubt it, since the penalty of messing up on top of loss DPS for aiming to get 3 or even 2 signs can be harsh based on your latency, I don't see them adding on top of a concept in which you summon a rabbit on your head if you good.

Rather than focus on new mudras, I'm hoping that they add more utility to ninjutsu. The combos honestly I feel could be less since as NIN we are missing the aspect of what makes a Ninja a Ninja and it's not the 20 second Raiton/Suiton as needed to trick attack. When it comes down to most encounters that's all NIN is once you apply the Huton. So personally I'm hoping we see more abilities like Kassatsu that augment our jutsu in some way to add more utility to those actions and hopefully make Hyoton something more useful for PVE compared to it's PVP only usefulness currently.

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Originally Posted by NoctisShiva

I see it more like a mudra that you can only use once in a while , or even only with kassatsu , that you use after any kind of 3 step mudra to summon doppelgangers named ten, chi , jin, like in the jobquest ^^ and i think it would be more like a strong attack with those doppelgangers attacking at the same time and then vanish rather than you got 3 doppelgangers fighting for a while with you

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Ever since the lv50 quest I've been wanting the 4th mudra as a burst cooldown of some kind, I think it would be nice to have existing ninjutsu be augmented or "supercharged" by the 4th rather than have an entire spellbook consisting of Hyoton level useless useful spells that are entirely situational (if even that). I also found this post that puts forth another idea I like-

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

Hmm I'm not overly familiar with the whole Eastern philosophy but isn't Ten-Chi-Jin a some sort of holy triad in what, Taoism or something?

So if there were to be new mudra I motion it to be a separate one Yin and Yang to have Yin Mudra and Yang Mudra giving enhanced/changed effect.

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Having a split spellbook where Raiton is a single strike that hits hard as we've been using, while on the other Raiton is a bit weaker but now applies a potent DoT, etc.

If they add a fourth I hope they keep max casts at 3 mudras -> ninjutsu.

Another Mudra isn't necessary. They can simply remove the whole "only the last mudra used matter", this way they could easily double the amount of available spells usable.

Personnaly, I'm a bit disapointed by the ninja.
When I rolled, I thought the job would be centered around the use of mudra. instead, once you have Huton up. You only use it once every 20sec on raiton or suiton.
This is a problem not only the ninja but many job currently have. They give every job too much of everything
Almost every job has 2-3 dots, 1 buff to keep up, 1 debuff to keep up. This effetively reduce the difference between job A and B.
HW didn't improve on this as only one of our new skill have anything to do with Mudra. Armor crush, and it is by far the skill I've been the most pleased to learn.
Shadewalker and Somescreen are ok as they bring interesting utility, but Duality and Dream Within a Dream are utterly dull. Especially Dream within a Dream. Kassatsu was amazing to learn, DwaD just left me with a "ah ok... the animation is cool I guess..."

For StormBlood I do not want a new mudra, 3 is enough, but instead I want the mudra to be more depending of the order.
Some example

Ten-Jin-Chi : Doton
Jin-Ten-Chi : 岩遁　Ganton: Replace the DoT combo, applie a DoT, sand is turning around the target

Jin-Chi-Ten : Saton　砂遁, a small sandstorm engulf us, reducing all dmg taken by 30%, only Huton or Chiton can be up at any given time
Chi-Jin-Ten : Huton

Ten-Chi-Jin : Suiton
Chi-Ten-Jin : 貝遁 Shinton Engulf the Ninja in water, creating a powerful absorbing shield for 6sec

Ten-Chi : Raiton
Jin-Chi: 影遁　You quickly kneel and sink into a puddle of shadow on the ground, you're stealth for at least 5sec. (pvp skill) Dump all threat. Or possible greatly increase your movement speed

Chi-Ten : Katon
Jin-Ten : 息遁 Sokuton: Blow a healing mist at the target (with sakura blowing everywhere!) healing all nearby ally for 500 potency based of Dex.

Ten-Jin : Hyoton
Chi-Jin: 震遁　Shinton : Create a small earthquack damaging and stunning everyone around you for 3sec. Less dmg than katon.

We have a new trait allowing us to keep up to 2 charges of Ninjutsu
I don't see the Ninja as someone who should use Ninjutsu whenever available, the Ninja should be a reactive class always adapting. Two charges on Ninjtutsu (one charge every 20sec) would not affect our dps by much... (20sec over a 5min fight?). But being able to use one ninjutsu for optimal dps and always having that one "back up" mudra for emergency situation, weither we need more dps or survivibility.
Finally, as a combo skill has been added to refresh the duration of futon, the current DoT combo would refresh the duration of the sand DoT. It wouldn't change the gameplay as a whole, but instead of using Huton once and then alternating raiton and suiton, this approach would gives more life to the mudra system.


Kassatsu cooldown reduced to 60sec

Duality reworked, improve the next Ninjutsu granting it enhanced effect.
Quick example


Doton : If there are 3 or more ennemy within the sand, damage taken increased by 15%
岩遁　Ganton: Spread the DoT to nearby ennemies
Saton　砂遁 : Affect nearby allies for 10sec
Chi-Jin-Ten : Affect nearby allies for 10sec

Suiton : Reset Ninjutsu cooldown
貝遁 Shinton : Shinton explodes for 600 potency if it doesn't expire.

Raiton: Raiton is casted three times on the target over 4sec (zap zap zap)
影遁　Affect up to 2 nearby allies

Katon : Explodes three times
息遁 Sokuton: Also applies a HoT healing for the 100% of the healing done over 12sec

Hyoton : Also silence the target for half the duration
震遁　Shinton : Also apply paralises for 9sec.



My point here with those ideas is just to show that a lot of cool things could be done with the mudra system. Making the whole class very versatile and centered around its use of a unique mechanic, and not your usual combo based job with something to use every now and then.
The list might seem overwhelming but I've just set in stone all possible combinaition. (except for 1 mudra shuriken)
I don't think it would make the job too complicated.
Most of these skills are very situationnal and any ninja sticking to a DoT + Huton + raiton + suiton would have all he needs for a boss. Every combination doesn't have to be about dps too. We currently have a limited amount of combination, but if they were to add a 4th mudra or do something close to what a I proposed, making everything about dps would just make some skill better than other making us only use a few. The shuriken is a good example, why use shuriken when you have Raiton.


Oh and also, Mudra cooldown reduced from 0.5sec to 0.1sec. So we can actually chain them quickly


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Originally Posted by ckc22

If they add a fourth I hope they keep max casts at 3 mudras -> ninjutsu.

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100% agree

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Originally Posted by Powercow

It's not a matter of button count, it's a matter of complexity.

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Yoshida has expressed a desire to slightly simplify rotations, and reduce skill bloat by removing or combining skills. A lot of work needs to be done to counter skill bloat in this game... SCH/SMN suffers particularly.

For example; SA and TA could be combined in to a single skill with the effect and potency depending on your position.

Dancing Edge can be removed and the slashing debuff moved to Shadow Fang while increasing the DOT duration to 21s.

Personally, I hope they finally do away with the class system and bin cross-class skills then buff job abilities to compensate where necessary. e.g; Kiss buffs could be increased to 25% + more effects in return for dumping IR, B4B, etc etc. New job specific buffs can be added for burst requirements.

In 4.0 this frees up a lot of room to expand battle complexity with what makes each class cool and unique rather than the boring every-job cross class buffs and redundant skills everywhere.