I'm somewhat glad they added the raid finder, but I'd be lying if I thought it was unnecessary. No I'm not talking about party finder (partly) or statics, I'm talking about Duty Finder. To me, the reason why this mode seems completely unreliable is that it blocks your preferences and splits your group rate to 1/4. You either want to complete it and haven't done it yet, want practice and only did the first part, want practice and only want to practice the last part, and just run with those who completed it.
You know why extreme primals are easily ran (said "done" before and people didn't get it, my apologies) in Duty Finder? Because they're open to everyone. It doesn't lock you out of player match ups by asking you what phase would you like your party to be on. This Raid Finder thing could be better by adding a simple party match option. Apparently they said this mode was a success, but I've yet to find anything saying so. Those who ran this mode now told they either ran it with a premade party and never touched raid finder or found a learning party on party finder. I feel like SE just took the request to add the latest ex-primals and savage modes to duty finder, threw it into a paper shredder and paper mache'd a crossword puzzle out of the shreddings. Its impressive but was really unneeded. As I said (partly) the pf could be used for the same things they tried to add. Wanna learn a specific phase, specify it on party finder. completion only? Right in the description.
So yeah I guess this is a kind of request too then. Can you add a general match option for these modes? If I didn't make it clear the first time:
Allow us to run ALL EX Primals and Savage Mode Fights in either Raid Finder or Duty Finder, without having to be required to specify a preference of player matching.
That is all.
-
12-20-2016, 05:06 PMKurogaeaRaid Finder and a General Problem I Needed to Get Off my Chest
-
12-20-2016, 05:08 PMGMERC
"Nobody uses the Raid Finder" is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
-
12-20-2016, 05:24 PMKurogaeaNever said "Nobody uses the Raid Finder", but I will guess its unlikely someone would use it normally like Duty Finder. Question for you though, when do you use this mode?Quote:
Originally Posted by GMERC
-
12-20-2016, 05:28 PMFrowny
Keep the Incomplete and Completion roles. I do not want to try to get my page on Monday and spend 2hrs teaching people.
EX primals are easier in DF because... well, they're easier and drop mounts. People care more for mounts than Savage drops. -
12-20-2016, 05:32 PMLegion88
I would like only two options:
-Learning
-Farming
No Entry to Farming without at least 1 kill, so you would split the player pool only 1/2.
The only reason for RF ist to filter unwanted first timers out of farming parties. -
12-20-2016, 05:36 PMPondHollowIt's a consequence of design.Quote:
Originally Posted by GMERC
Was with you until the part about getting an RF pop on a Monday. No incentive exists to use RF to help others get page runs. The system is even more dysfunctional than OP implies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frowny
-
12-20-2016, 06:54 PMKarstenSYou know that the most current Ex primal is not open to everyone (and never has been)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
In duty finder you will only find old ones, that are heavily outgeared and with echo on top of that.
In the most cases of Savage the matching template is needed to beat the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
Just read the change list of Midas Savage when it got put to dutyfinder in 3.4. All changes they made at this point were required for make them possible to do with random matching. -
12-20-2016, 07:25 PMKurogaea1. It shouldn't be like that in the first place where new extreme fights are limited to gathered parties in party finder, because we all know it takes several tries to get a fight down and duty finder is a quick up-and-go way to run things to get the hang of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
Echo doesn't mean anything and it still doesn't. They can add the new ex-primals to the Duty Finder and or Raid Finder and leave out echo till the next patch as they always do. Honestly not sure where your getting at with this.
2. Savage Modes don't need to be changed if they're complete-able. They only nerfed it because high-end players are the ones they take that content for, and when not many clear it they lower the bars so others can have a go. If they simply open the gate so players can hop in to experience the modes, players would have more access to try it over and over again, therefore strengthening their resolve to go again and eventually using the pf once they had enough practice.
In otherwords, I didn't say this will make wins happen more often, but it WILL give players a bigger chance to try these modes out for some hands-on practice. -
12-20-2016, 07:42 PMDzian
The only change raid finder needs is to actually lock options until players have progressed that far into content
Using my personal experiences with Sophia ex for example, I got her down to around 6% a few times in my first couple of attempts shortly after the patch.
So then a few days later I ticked duty incomplete with the purpose of completion in the raid finder because I was at a point where I had the mechanics down just needed to beat the enrage and get the clear.
And then for almost 2 weeks every group I got was full of people that were ticking completion even though they had never even entered the fight before. And a lot of them couldn't even make it to phase 2.
All of those players should of been choosing practice instead of wasting everyone's time. And they all complained when the vote abandon goes out after 1 or 2 wipes in the second phase.
You shouldn't be allowed to check practice phase 3 until you've made it past a certain point in the fight. You shouldn't be about to check duty incomplete > completion until you've got the boss down to a ceretain point when the enrage goes off.
Once I got my clear the raid finder duty complete > completion was pretty successful. i'd say 50% of groups cleared it in one shot. 30% cleared it wiping once. and maybe 20% were abandoned. so about an 80% win rate in my personal experience. much better than using duty finder. -
12-20-2016, 08:27 PMKarstenSEcho and gear makes them alot easier in the same way as unsync makes the lvl 50 content easier. The difference is huge. Even just with more gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
They nerfed it because some classes were mandatory to handle mechanics. They nerfed it that it can be doable with partys that are missing classes completely.Quote:
They only nerfed it because high-end players are the ones they take that content for
Lets take a look:
Silence is not mandatory anylonger to beat them.Quote:
Alexander - The Cuff of the Son (Savage) and Alexander - The Burden of the Son (Savage)
Blaster's Mind Blast attack will no longer inflict players with the Damage Down and Confused status effects.
One jail was for caster classes only. Another one for physical classes only. Now every kind of class can do both DD jails.Quote:
Alexander - The Arm of the Son (Savage)
Players will no longer be silenced when placed in a jail.
The potency of the physical vulnerability down effect inflicted by engine oil has been reduced.
All these nerfs are just to handle the matching of the duty finder.
The nerfs some patches later in A8S were to make it more accessible for groups without Scholar. -
12-20-2016, 09:19 PMKurogaeaJust to confirm, we all know what echo is, it just has nothing to do with what I requested which is the reason why I said it didn't matter. They could add reverse echo and I'd still say put it in the Duty Finder so players can try it out easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
As for the other stuff, your telling me that SE made all these new savage mode content as well as Ex Primals without sporadic player compositions in mind? Sounds like an issue in itself actually. Basically its like, "play our way or your f***ed until we say otherwise (patch)" Thnx for that bit of info, though related completely, adding a more lax matching for the newer content wouldn't harm anything. If players want to complete a duty, you have 2 liable options. Raid Finder's completion choice and PF.
Player compositions have always been somewhat of a side issue. Players plan around it and or wing it. Once again, its good for getting a good test of content before using a partyfinder, and with multiple tries it could offer some good practice. -
12-20-2016, 11:03 PMErryK
What KarstenS is saying is you are making a connection where there isn't one.
You can't really say that for all primals though because there are three that aren't there. They're in RF for a reason. The connection you are trying to make is that things like Bismarck EX (tuned to i160~180), and Ravana EX (tuned to i170~190) are just as easy as Nidhogg EX (tuned to i220~i240) and Sophia EX (tuned to i240~i250) with any party composition and setup (by composition I mean amount of people with/without fight EXP) . While yes, you can potentially beat Bismarck and Ravana, you can't just take the same party and expect to beat it in Sophia EX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
The RF is there for the reasons stated on it: to separate practice from farming (2 options, duty complete + completion and duty incomplete + practice), or kill (duty incomplete + completion). The duty complete + practice combo is stupid and useless because if you've killed the content, why are you going in to practice? I personally can't make sense of it. But the RF is there to separate the 3 categories: farm party, kill party, progression party (practicing any phase of the fight). The idea is to assist groups regardless of party setup.
On the other hand, duty finder is there to commit to doing a duty regardless of what status your personal progression is at, and the reason for that is because it isn't regarded as difficult or 'current' content. -
12-20-2016, 11:30 PMDzianIf people were more honest this setting would get used a lot more I think. clearing it once doesn't mean you've mastered it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
this is why most farm parties fall apart because people clear it once or twice and think they've got it on "farm" despite being carried.. or maybe you're switched jobs or something. cleared it as a tank but practicing as a healer.... -
12-20-2016, 11:49 PMCold_Raven
Raid Finder is pretty good... for the one-latest primal.
All others should be kicked out into regular DF.
There's no reason why Sephirot and Nidhogg are still in Raid Finder. And, if anyone hasn't completed these fights yet, it's almost impossible to use Raid Finder while locked under the "Incomplete" status. So they're pretty much stuck with PF only. If you're on a smaller server, you might not be able to find peeps...
Also, for those who have completed, they should be allowed to "also include" incompletes if they want... just to make their q's shorter if they'd like.
Such is my judgment! -
12-21-2016, 12:23 AMMoomba33
In my opinion only the current Ex Primal and Savage should be in Raid Finder with the older ones being in DF to help queues. I had to use party finder to get past Nidhogg because I only got 3 pops in RF after hours of waiting in queue over 2 weeks.
These topics tend to get low support though. It seems like a lot of people only use use it for current content anyways:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...vs-duty-finder
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-ex-back-to-DF -
12-21-2016, 12:30 AMLineageRazor
Raid Finder works well if you choose to run under duty completed. There's usually enough folks farming - even for older content - in order to find a group. It's the progression bits that are a lot more iffy... Splitting the pool of members the way it does makes an already difficult queue nigh-impossible.
That said, I know from personal experience how frustrating it can be to have the first part of the fight down pat, and eager to practice later phases, only to be constantly queued up with a fresh newbie who has to learn the first phase. The odds of actually getting any later-phase practice done are slim.
The pool of players doing later phases at any given time is simply too small. I don't think that it's a problem that can be solved with any kind of tool. At least Raid Finder as it stands DOES provide one purpose, in that it saves late-progression players the frustration of getting saddled with yet another newbie. Too bad it does so by preventing the late-progression player from getting any kind practice at all... -
12-21-2016, 12:32 AMArutan.... whatQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
/10char -
12-21-2016, 04:12 AMKurogaeaActually I worded that wrong. "Extreme Primals are easily ran in Duty Finder", but I'd be lying if I said players didn't complete an ex primal using Duty Finder.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
Another thing people are confusing this topic with me calling the mode useless. I said it was unneeded, not meaning it isn't helpful. We can still have raid practice options and farming in raid finder, just asking for another option for general running of the content that's not splitting up queues. -
12-21-2016, 04:39 AMRita1989
Let's be honest once the cross server PF is up it will replace how harder EX primals are ran the reason why it's dead in RF and was dead in DF as well is your almost always dealing with multiple new players who don't know the fight and even if you make progress your going to have to rinse and repeat this progress because time runs out.
I cleared Thordan a couple times in DF but that was because most of the party was premades never cleared with 8 random people. -
12-21-2016, 05:32 AMErryK
It's splitting it up to put like-minded individuals into the same instance. If one wants to practice without exp, then they queue up for that. If one wants to practice with exp, they put in for that, etc.
It's like saying "We should have separates queues for cheques and cash." then saying "Wait, why not make one queue which allows people to use both?" which means longer queues as well as longer processing times as it is one person dealing with many, instead of 2 people dealing with many. Two heads are better than one, two queues are better than one. -
12-21-2016, 06:09 AMLokier
I'm surprised you guys have gotten into R/F.
Whenever I use it on Odin I'm sitting there staring at a wall for an hour or two, lmao. -
12-21-2016, 07:08 AMKurogaeaBecause they split up the preferences instead of letting players use Partyfinder instead, but its for convenience as unlikely used as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokier
Problem is, you can't que for both. If I want to get general practice of a fight if I know both final and first phase, I can only choose the final phase and thats 1/2 a queue of members i can be matched with, possibly going with a 1/2 hour queue. If I could que for both it'd make it more likely I'll be matched with a group regardless. Is it making sense for you now? I know why they added Raid Finder, I'm telling you that there's inconveniences within the convenience.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK