Does Swift Cast work on any skills?

Just wondering if Swift Cast works on any skills just like Limit Break or something else.

Swiftcast only works on spells, limit break is a general action.

Fun Fact: Swiftcast also works on instant cast spells.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Fun Fact: Swiftcast also works on instant cast spells.

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It does, bit of a waste though ;)

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Fun Fact: Swiftcast also works on instant cast spells.

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No it does not. I can Swiftcast then use an instant spell behind, and the swiftcast buff is still up and counting, and it will work on next non instant skill I use.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

No it does not. I can Swiftcast then use an instant spell behind, and the swiftcast buff is still up and counting, and it will work on next non instant skill I use.

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I beg you to try again. Swiftcast will be used up by instant cast spells; such as, bio, aero and ruin II.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I beg you to try again. Swiftcast will be used up by instant cast spells; such as, bio, aero and ruin II.

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I just did again on both my WHM and SMN, and Swiftcast was not consumed by instant spells when I tried:

WHM: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast one instant healing skill -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast a non-instant healing skill = Instant cast.

SMN: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast Eye for an Eye (instant spell) on my Chocobo -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast Shadow Flare (non instant) = Instant Cast

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

I just did again on both my WHM and SMN, and Swiftcast was not consumed by instant spells when I tried:

WHM: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast one instant healing skill -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast a non-instant healing skill = Instant cast.

SMN: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast Eye for an Eye (instant spell) on my Chocobo -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast Shadow Flare (non instant) = Instant Cast

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Perhaps they made the adjustment and did not post it in the patch notes. It has been awhile since I had the issue.

Out of curiosity, are you using abilities or spells. For example, Eye for an Eye is an ability, not a spell. An instant spell would be aero, ruin II, bio & regen. You can tell the difference, because abilities do not cost MP/TP, where spells cost MP and skills cost TP.

Swiftcast does not work on abilities at all, instant or not (however, all abilities are instant except limit break if I remember correctly).

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Perhaps they made the adjustment and did not post it in the patch notes. It has been awhile since I had the issue.

Out of curiosity, are you using abilities or spells. For example, Eye for an Eye is an ability, not a spell. An instant spell would be aero, ruin II, bio & regen. You can tell the difference, because abilities do not cost MP/TP, where spells cost MP and skills cost TP.

Swiftcast does not work on abilities at all, instant or not (however, all abilities are instant except limit break if I remember correctly).

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Ah you are correct, I tried Regen and Ruin II, and they both consumed the Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

I just did again on both my WHM and SMN, and Swiftcast was not consumed by instant spells when I tried:

WHM: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast one instant healing skill -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast a non-instant healing skill = Instant cast.

SMN: Swiftcast -> (Checking the buff is up) -> Cast Eye for an Eye (instant spell) on my Chocobo -> Swiftcast Buff still up -> Cast Shadow Flare (non instant) = Instant Cast

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WHM does not have an instant cast healer spell. Tetra and Benediction cost ZERO MP. SMNs Eye for an Eye is NOT a spell either, cost ZERO MP.

Try using actual spells that consume MP as Kaurie suggested such as aero, ruin II, bio, or scathe. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying your test is flawed and shows nothing.

Edit: /hurray for not reading all the way down and seeing you already did other tests (-_-; )

Yep, those are all abilities, not spells. As another interesting point, healing abilities aren't affected by any buff that increases incoming or outgoing heals, such as defiance and convalescence, as far as I know nothing can buff them.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Yep, those are all abilities, not spells. As another interesting point, healing abilities aren't affected by any buff that increases incoming or outgoing heals, such as defiance and convalescence, as far as I know nothing can buff them.

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Raw boosts to mind from pots can. Technically the spear is an HPS buff too. Lulz.

Also, yes, swiftcast will be consumed by any spell cast following it, instant or hard cast.... but proc based spells like Fire III from a fire starter or a Thunder variant with thundercloud will consume their respective proc buffs instead of swiftcast.

FF Dev certainly don't like to make things work simply xD

Just for interest, it works on summoning carbuncles too .
Change them on the run .

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

Just for interest, it works on summoning carbuncles too .
Change them on the run .

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Oh yeah!. The only very rare times I summon an Egi without Swiftcast is because Swiftcast in on Cooldown.
I hope when they gonna mess up with the skills in 5.0 that they're not gonna remove our access to Swiftcast as a SMN :O

Like Rawrz said, my instant cast procs for Fire 3 and Thunder 3 do not consume Swiftcast either, but they also do not consume MP, so is it linked to that maybe?

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

Just for interest, it works on summoning carbuncles too .
Change them on the run .

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Why would you ever change your pet? You pretty much have access to Useful Pet, Useful Pet minus some damage, and Useless Pet as a Summoner, Useful Pet and Useless Pet as a Arcansit, and I'd say two Useful Pets that you'd never want to switch out in the middle of battle as SCH.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Like Rawrz said, my instant cast procs for Fire 3 and Thunder 3 do not consume Swiftcast either, but they also do not consume MP, so is it linked to that maybe?

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It sounds that the proc itself makes the spell an ability. That's interesting to know, though.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Why would you ever change your pet? You pretty much have access to Useful Pet, Useful Pet minus some damage, and Useless Pet as a Summoner, Useful Pet and Useless Pet as a Arcansit, and I'd say two Useful Pets that you'd never want to switch out in the middle of battle as SCH.

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Garuda for trash, Ifrit for bosses?
Selene for everything unless you'd otherwise actually have to heal the tank? ;)

Pretty sure Nightroad didn't literally mean mid-battle but while running from one pack to the next/from the last pack to the next boss and so on^^

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Garuda for trash, Ifrit for bosses?
Selene for everything unless you'd otherwise actually have to heal the tank? ;)

Pretty sure Nightroad didn't literally mean mid-battle but while running from one pack to the next/from the last pack to the next boss and so on^^

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Garuda is superior for bosses and for trash.

I tend to prefer Eos, as the added healing capabilities allows for me to DPS more, which makes a bigger difference than a 1.5% speed boost. However, Selene works for many. Whichever you choose, you're not going to swap mid battle. There is also no reason to swap between pulls. If you're swapping between pulls, you do not use swiftcast, you save that for Shadowflare.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Fun Fact: Swiftcast also works on instant cast spells.

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I cannot tell you how many time I've used Swift Cast + Ruin II... The amount of tear I've shed can probably drown the population of Primal Data center...

Also, please don't forget Swift Cast + Shadow Flare anytime you can. Especially on trash mob!!!! Cleric Stand or not!!!! Do under estimate the power of 30 seconds AOE slow debuff with no diminishing return, it's a god send! The slow will not work on bosses, so use it as you see fit.

I just used Bio after Swiftcast and then Summoin II, the Summoin II was instant.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

I just used Bio after Swiftcast and then Summoin II, the Summoin II was instant.

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Did you make sure to cast Bio after Swiftcast registered as a buff? I've done it plenty of times where I will start to cast Raise after using Swiftcast because I'm too quick with my inputs. You have to give it a sec for the game to apply the buff.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Whichever you choose, you're not going to swap mid battle.

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For those moments when the tank spins the boss and cleaves your poor fairy into oblivion. :(

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Originally Posted by Deus_ex_Machina

Also, please don't forget Swift Cast + Shadow Flare anytime you can. Especially on trash mob!!!! Cleric Stand or not!!!! Do under estimate the power of 30 seconds AOE slow debuff with no diminishing return, it's a god send! The slow will not work on bosses, so use it as you see fit.

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As a tank, I can tell you that Shadow flare's 5% slow debuff is completely worthless and has no effect on the amount of damage I take.

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Originally Posted by raela

For those moments when the tank spins the boss and cleaves your poor fairy into oblivion. :(

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Heh yea, resummoning your dead pet is an adequate use of swiftcast - summon, but I was specifically talking about switching pets :P

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

As a tank, I can tell you that Shadow flare's 5% slow debuff is completely worthless and has no effect on the amount of damage I take.

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That is incorrect. You take precisely 5% less damage per second as the mobs are hitting you 5% slower.

Which is such a tiny number that in order for it to have an effect, you'd need at least 2 minutes of uninterrupted slow to have a noticeable decrease in damage. Awareness negates more damage in 15 seconds...

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Which is such a tiny number that in order for it to have an effect, you'd need at least 2 minutes of uninterrupted slow to have a noticeable decrease in damage. Awareness negates more damage in 15 seconds...

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Awareness has the potential to decrease damage more, but it also has the potential to not decrease damage at all.

5% is not insignificant, but it obviously shouldn't be relied upon as the only form of damage mitigation.

If we're talking trash mobs, 5% is insignificant. You can overstate the effectiveness, but it doesn't change the fact that awareness and foresight, the two absolute weakest tank cd's, mitigate more damage in their respective durations than SF's Slow does in two minutes. Awareness only needs to 'proc' once to completely overshadow any defensive benefits of the Slow, and the chance of being critted increases drastically the more mobs you have pummeling you. SF's slow is more window dressing than it is actual mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

As a tank, I can tell you that Shadow flare's 5% slow debuff is completely worthless and has no effect on the amount of damage I take.

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I'm sorry to hear your opposing opinion... To you it may not mean much, but to me, it's a lot more efficient way to manage my Aetherflow Stacks, I rather not waste my 1 stack on Sacred Soil and then another stack on Bane.

And i'm sure you are just talking about the Slow status, but that post is a little misleading to newer members in our community. People could take it as "Do not use Shadow Flare"

I just want to clarify that Shadow Flare is also a 30 seconds DoT, 25 potency per tick (total potency of 250 per mob). and if you have 3 mobs that's a total potency of 750 over the course of 30 seconds. With out a damage drop off as long as the mob stay within the AOE. Unlicke Bane, it has a 50% damage reduction on the 4th mob and beyond

Oh, I agree that shadow flare should be used for damage! I was disagreeing with the notion that Shadow flare is effective mitigation, since any players that might pick up a tank could get the wrong impression. Namely, "Shadow flare up! I don't need CD- Why'd I go splat."

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Oh, I agree that shadow flare should be used for damage! I was disagreeing with the notion that Shadow flare is effective mitigation, since any players that might pick up a tank could get the wrong impression. Namely, "Shadow flare up! I don't need CD- Why'd I go splat."

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your point is valid, I agree. But I would also like to point out, the best way to mitigate damage is killing off the source of said damage. In that term, it fulfill it job wonderfully

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

If we're talking trash mobs, 5% is insignificant. You can overstate the effectiveness, but it doesn't change the fact that awareness and foresight, the two absolute weakest tank cd's, mitigate more damage in their respective durations than SF's Slow does in two minutes. Awareness only needs to 'proc' once to completely overshadow any defensive benefits of the Slow, and the chance of being critted increases drastically the more mobs you have pummeling you. SF's slow is more window dressing than it is actual mitigation.

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You have a pretty skewed idea on damage mitigation, but that's fine. It's unlikely we are going to play together, so I don't really need to concern myself with it.

For mathematics, let's say you pull a pack of 5 mobs that each do 10 damage per hit every 3 seconds. If 1 crit were to happen in 30 s (time of a shadowflare), you would have:

Damage mitigation from Awareness: 5 damage (prevent 1 crit and take regular damage instead), for a total of 500 damage taken
Damage mitigation from Shadowflare: 10 damage taken every 3.15 seconds, for a total of 9.5 hits (as things don't hit for half amounts, you'll only be hit 9 times). You'll receive 1 crit for 15 damage. Therefore, you receive 10 x 9 x 5 + 5 = 455 damage.

However, if you really want to count the 0.5 as damage taken, as over longer fights it will result in 19 instead of 20 hits, the math works to 480. It's also important to note that I used simplified numbers to make the math easier to understand. If my understanding is correct, mobs hit on the regular GCD of 2.5 seconds, not 3, and the slowed time is 2.625s.

Naturally, awareness can proc more times than that, but it also can not at all. This depends on how often the mobs are hitting critically.

The logical fallacy is that you don't choose between Awareness and Shadowflare. Shadowflare simply couples with your current damage mitigation and the scholars shields and the faeries heals.

A flat 5% DPS decrease seems like a weird way to look at a slow, especially in a game tied to a 2.5 second global cooldown. Now I may not be super knowledgeable about how all this dps stuff works but if mobs are also tied to a 2.5 second cooldown...

Say you fight a mob that only uses instant abilities every 2.5 seconds, casting a 5% slow would delay its attacks to every 2.625 seconds. Taking these numbers, plus the duration of Shadow Flare(SF) you can sort of calculate dps. For the sake of this equation I'm going to say the mob deals 100 damage per attack.

@30 seconds, and 2.5 GCD, the mob would execute 12 attacks (30/2.5=12), and would inflict 1200 damage (12×100=1200). Which can then be calculated as 40 DPS (1200/30=40).

@30 seconds, and 2.625 GCD, the mob would execute 11 (rounded from 11.42~) attacks, inflicting 1100 damage, or 36.67 DPS.

36.67 is about an 8% decrease from 40. So you actually reduced the target's DPS by more than 5%.

But if the mob died at 29 seconds it would execute 11 attacks regardless if it was inflicted with SF or not. So the dps would not be any different, since in both cases the mob would inflict 1100 damage, or 37.93 DPS.

This is all napkin math and I'm actually work so I may be completely wrong, but slows are not the same as actual damage reduction.

Dont make them change it, if they add a check it will be instant like benediction. Instant in name only lol.

Cast benediction, check if player will be alive or not, 2 - 5 seconds later use ability on them.
Cast swift cast, check if spell is instant or not, 2 - 5 seconds later use the spell with swift cast.

It will be much worse if they actually fix it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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I don't really understand how you can say you take x amount of damage every y seconds when the mobs attack every 2.5 seconds, not every second. If you take damage every 2.5 seconds wouldn't the total amount of damage you take every 3 seconds be the same as the total damage you take every 4 seconds (up to a point)? Or am I just not understanding something here?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

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It's drastically overstating the actual effectiveness of the slow, yes. The point I was making is that SF shouldn't be considered mitigation because slow really doesn't have an appreciable effect at 5% over short fights. As I said earlier, trying to sell it as mitigation sends the wrong message, and the uninitiated might try think they can save cd's while SF is up only to be slammed in a split second, because slow doesn't actually lower the damage taken.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

It's drastically overstating the actual effectiveness of the slow, yes. The point I was making is that SF shouldn't be considered mitigation because slow really doesn't have an appreciable effect at 5% over short fights. As I said earlier, trying to sell it as mitigation sends the wrong message, and the uninitiated might try think they can save cd's while SF is up only to be slammed in a split second, because slow doesn't actually lower the damage taken.

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That's why I think saying it "reduces DPS by 5%" is really weird. It's not like Disable that literally decreases the damage its target inflicts.

Yeah this is way of topic though. Opps. XD

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

A flat 5% DPS decrease seems like a weird way to look at a slow, especially in a game tied to a 2.5 second global cooldown. Now I may not be super knowledgeable about how all this dps stuff works but if mobs are also tied to a 2.5 second cooldown...

Say you fight a mob that only uses instant abilities every 2.5 seconds, casting a 5% slow would delay its attacks to every 2.625 seconds. Taking these numbers, plus the duration of Shadow Flare(SF) you can sort of calculate dps. For the sake of this equation I'm going to say the mob deals 100 damage per attack.

@30 seconds, and 2.5 GCD, the mob would execute 12 attacks (30/2.5=12), and would inflict 1200 damage (12×100=1200). Which can then be calculated as 40 DPS (1200/30=40).

@30 seconds, and 2.625 GCD, the mob would execute 11 (rounded from 11.42~) attacks, inflicting 1100 damage, or 36.67 DPS.

36.67 is about an 8% decrease from 40. So you actually reduced the target's DPS by more than 5%.

But if the mob died at 29 seconds it would execute 11 attacks regardless if it was inflicted with SF or not. So the dps would not be any different, since in both cases the mob would inflict 1100 damage, or 37.93 DPS.

This is all napkin math and I'm actually work so I may be completely wrong, but slows are not the same as actual damage reduction.

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Indeed this is all correct, and something I alluded to above. I appreciate the other take on it to help make it clearer for others.

I should note that the total damage will be the same if they are both 11 attacks, but the speed at which that damage occurs is still slowed. This is quite valuable when DPSing.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

I don't really understand how you can say you take x amount of damage every y seconds when the mobs attack every 2.5 seconds, not every second. If you take damage every 2.5 seconds wouldn't the total amount of damage you take every 3 seconds be the same as the total damage you take every 4 seconds (up to a point)? Or am I just not understanding something here?

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I used per second, as generally the unit of measure for damage is DPS or damage per second.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

It's drastically overstating the actual effectiveness of the slow, yes. The point I was making is that SF shouldn't be considered mitigation because slow really doesn't have an appreciable effect at 5% over short fights. As I said earlier, trying to sell it as mitigation sends the wrong message, and the uninitiated might try think they can save cd's while SF is up only to be slammed in a split second, because slow doesn't actually lower the damage taken.

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There is nothing drastic about giving the precise amount of effectiveness. Shadowflare helps slow the damage to the tank. This is valuable and a form of mitigation. Saying that it does not mitigate 'sends the wrong message'.

If an uninitiated tried to save CD's with Shadowflare after reading our conversation, then they clearly need to re-read our conversation.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

That's why I think saying it "reduces DPS by 5%" is really weird. It's not like Disable that literally decreases the damage its target inflicts.

Yeah this is way of topic though. Opps. XD

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5% is actually slightly off. You're adding 5% to the lower half of the fraction (damage / second). So instead of (x/y) you have (x/(y*1.05), which works out to a 4.8% reduction in DPS.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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Ah. Alright. Thank you for clarifying!