Scholar Inquiry on Pet healing at level 60

So I'm hearing and being told this from multiple different sources, some who do not have a level 60 Scholar but heal in other classes, some who apparently heal with Scholars at 60, and some who don't play healers whatsoever.

The statement in question is
In all the latest level 60 content as a Scholar, is it safe for you to stay in Cleric Stance the entire time so that you only let Eos do /All/ of your healing for you? In the older content yeah it seems you can let your fairy do all the healing with you focusing purely on DPS and you're fine but I wonder about the latest content. What's your guys' take on it?
I also ask this from the point of view as a SCH who maybe isn't fully geared with the highest gear and those who perhaps are.

Yea, at lv 50 your fairy doesn't get any new abilities are anything so even between lv 50 and 60 you can dps almost 24/7 lol, just you'll maybe to use CDs to up the regen with Eos( if you use Selene you'll have to heal more lol)

Is it practical though? Me personally I find even the highest geared tanks can take chunks of damage in the endgame content and it seems that even the fairy's CD's don't seem to do enough with Embrace.

When I say this, I literally do mean that not a single physick, adlo, lustrate etc is used by you through dungeon mobs, bosses, etc. The healing is purely done by the pet themselves.

I wouldn't say I never leave Cleric Stance in 50-60 stuff, but yeah I definitely don't Stance dance the way I would on AST. Every now and then I switch to help my fairy with a Lustrate and Succor/Adlo, but that's it. Except the frogs/mammets pull in Gubal Hard, I don't trust any tanks in there.

Edit: Should mention that I pretty much exclusively use Eos. Her Rouse + Illumination + Whispering Dawn is godly.

Yes, you can practically have very high cleric stance up-time in easier content like expert roulette dungeons, alex normal, etc. However it's also dependent on ilevel at that affects your fairy healing a great deal. Substats like Crit and DET also affect your fairy healing.

Then of course it also depends on other players. Like dungeon content if you have under-geared tanks that pull all of Eorzea, also stand in AoE junk, or don't use cool downs you likely going to have to work a little. But that's okay, you can just flip, heal/Adlo/lustrate as necessary and get back in-stance. Nonetheless, you have "slam-embrace" and other fairy cool downs like Fey Illumination, or Fey Covenant (that magic AoE damage in the room before first boss in Gubal Hard) that make it possible to maximize cleric uptime, and even for entire pulls. "Slam Embrace", and Eos Rouse+Whispering Dawn is like having two regens on a tank, and it's up every 60s, so almost every big pull you have some big healing power while getting your DoTs up to bane the junk.

The last rooms in Gubal Hard do hurt a bit even at i250+. Even as a tank this is where I start to use my biggest cool downs because I pull as much as I can, and even consider Living Dead or Hallowed Ground at this point to help healer DPS. I don't trust many pug tanks there either, they are too stingy with their cool downs, yet still have a 240 or less weapon and gear.

Whenever I use Eos (which is most of the time), I can safely stay in Cleric Stance most of the time, even during bosses, because I use Rouse+Whispering Dawn for pulls, and if those aren't up then I use Fey Illumination by itself. This ensures that I always have a buffed fairy and am not bothered with stance dancing. Except for specific pulls, I don't heal beyond the Adlo prepull

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Originally Posted by Konungarike

Every now and then I switch to help my fairy with a Lustrate and Succor/Adlo, but that's it. Except the frogs/mammets pull in Gubal Hard, I don't trust any tanks in there.

Edit: Should mention that I pretty much exclusively use Eos. Her Rouse + Illumination + Whispering Dawn is godly.

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Apparently I'm getting told that in that exact pull you mentioned, your fairy can handle the whole thing without you healing.

Now while I do see a lot of you mentioning certain areas you can stay in Cleric stance safely and occasionally switch, I totally agree on that. Me personally, I stance dance all the time.

But what I'm asking is if you can really stay only in Cleric stance for a whole instance towards our current end game content, and not even touch any of your personal healing skills. Leave only the healing to your fairy in all situations.

You'll switch in and out of Cleric Stance in most content. In 60 dungeons you should never have to use a GCD to heal, instead you should be weaving lustrates and indoms between Bio and Aero when she falls critically behind. Virus is also a "heal" for this content, because it allows Selene a chance to catch up. Rouse is a godsend. Don't forget about E4E. Always weave if you can.

You don't need Eos to let the fairy "solo heal" dungeons. Selene is enough if you manage her right. With a good enough tank and high DPS, some pulls require 0 heals (from any source,) most pulls won't need even Lustrate.

Also, you'll still be commanding Eos/Selene to embrace manually, since she won't do it unless the target is below 80%. You can't really "leave" it to her, if you're constantly telling her to heal.

Which fairy you use depends on the dungeon, and on the tank and DPS, but if you want to ensure that you'll never have to swap out of CS, and I do mean never, just stick to Eos if you're going through DF for safety. Selene can mostly solo heal, but you'll have to throw an Indo or Lustrate more frequently than I'd like.

If you're using Eos, you can have the tank do absurdly large pulls and still have her solo heal them entirely if you Rouse+Fey Illu+WD. Add E4E on the tank and it's very, very likely you won't have to get out of CS ever. You just gotta be careful with the distance between Eos and the tank to make sure they get WD. Consider that under Rouse and Fey Illu and with WD up, Eos is throwing almost as much healing as a WHM spamming Cure II over and over.

When it comes to bosses it depends on the boss. Some bosses have a lot of AoE damage going out, but as you overgear dungeons you can just ignore it and let everyone's HP fall down to use one Indo while you have Selene take care of the rest.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Apparently I'm getting told that in that exact pull you mentioned, your fairy can handle the whole thing without you healing.

But what I'm asking is if you can really stay only in Cleric stance for a whole instance towards our current end game content, and not even touch any of your personal healing skills. Leave only the healing to your fairy in all situations.

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The only way you'll have to personally heal on that particular pull in Gubal if you use Eos is if the tank messes up their self-healing, or doesn't do self-healing at all. Any decent tank will know how to do it. Though if you have a PLD just make sure to watch their MP once their HP is getting low, cause they can't self-heal if they're out of mana from Flashing.

Other than that, yes. You can go an entire instance without healing in battles. I personally always Adlo the tank between pulls, so IDK if you're counting that. I also Sprint as the tank grabs the first group and re-adlo them (if they already have hate on every mob). If you're counting that, I guess you could say I have 95% CS uptime instead of 100%

This only applies to casual content, of course, you'll need to do some healing on A11 and A12 if you're in DF.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

The only way you'll have to personally heal on that particular pull in Gubal if you use Eos is if the tank messes up their self-healing, or doesn't do self-healing at all. Any decent tank will know how to do it. Though if you have a PLD just make sure to watch their MP once their HP is getting low, cause they can't self-heal if they're out of mana from Flashing.

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I don't clemency in trash mobs as PLD. It's way better being very liberal with defensive cooldowns, keeping damage up, and switching to to Sword Oath as soon as it's safe and possible, and getting convo up whenever it's off cooldown for regen/fairy. PLD should never need to be low on MP in the first place unless they are bad with aggro. Big pulls should be secured with CoS, not flash spam at expert roulette level. The near last pull in Gubal with the frogs is just best to prepare Sentinel or Hallowed Ground for maximum healer dps uptime.

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Originally Posted by technole

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I've heard a lot of debate on whether PLD should heal themselves or not in trash. I personally am of the belief that in massive pulls like that one in particular, the group gains more from PLD casting Clemency on themselves every now and then, since that healer GCD will probably deal more damage to the group of mobs than anything PLD has to offer per GCD bc lol PLD AoE. Even a SCH casting Blizzard II does stupid amounts of damage in that particular pull, since it's a 50 potency attack on like 10 targets simultaneously.

If you don't wanna heal yourself, tho, at least pop HG once all the mobs have gotten there. This gives SCH time to put up all the dots and Bane with no problems, which is the most problematic part when dealing with tanks that mess up their defensive rotation.

This is discussion for another topic, though, I think :)

For the record: I know PLD's GB is much more potency than Bliz II in 10 targets, but this is a 450-500 potency per GCD from SCH vs PLD's average potency per GCD, which is around 330ish iirc for GB's combo. Since this thread in particular is about SCH I won't talk about the other two healers. And also because I'm feeling lazy about doing more math.

Yep, and of course the real challenge is the pug PLDs that just don't use CDs correctly in the first place, or thinking Hallowed Ground is just an "oh crap" button instead of looking at it a tank and healer DPS gain. Using it early as possible, and in a simple dungeon you are getting maybe 2 uses total, whereas compared to the majority: 0

Also don't forget Sword Oath auto-attacks, since the buff it's a big source of damage, so it's not just about watching CoS on cooldown. The real hype is getting out of Shield Oath as soon as possible as well, with mitigation, and while allowing healer cleric stance to bane up the junk.

So in the past few days I've been trying to stay more and more in CS as long as I can, only dipping out if the tank really needs a heal or adlo, or in some cases the DPS if they get hit by things.
While things don't really feel too different for me compared to before I made this thread, I've been finding being able to pull this off really does depend who I'm with.... (I'm sorry if that sounds kinda self centeredish)
Sometimes I've been able to have Eos roused up using her CDs in mobs with an adlo set before the pull and I sometimes didn't really need to get out CS cause the tank was managing.
Other times for whatever reasons despite seeming well geared, the Tank takes giant chunks of damage at a time that not Eos fully set can manage without me. Sometimes it seems to help a lot when the DPS plow through things too.

Am I on the right track?

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

So in the past few days I've been trying to stay more and more in CS as long as I can, only dipping out if the tank really needs a heal or adlo, or in some cases the DPS if they get hit by things.
While things don't really feel too different for me compared to before I made this thread, I've been finding being able to pull this off really does depend who I'm with.... (I'm sorry if that sounds kinda self centeredish)
Sometimes I've been able to have Eos roused up using her CDs in mobs with an adlo set before the pull and I sometimes didn't really need to get out CS cause the tank was managing.
Other times for whatever reasons despite seeming well geared, the Tank takes giant chunks of damage at a time that not Eos fully set can manage without me. Sometimes it seems to help a lot when the DPS plow through things too.

Am I on the right track?

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It's not really self centred to be honest. You got the right idea with your comment~ Your ability to stay in Cleric's Stance is directly proportional the skill and equipment level of the party you're with. Even if a tank is geared to the teeth, if they're not using their CDs you're going to have less Cleric Stance up time. If the tanks are using CDs but the DPS is slow you're going to spend more time healing once the Tank CDs wear off. If DPS can't dodge bad you're going to spend more time healing. If it's a leveling dungeon versus a high ilvl cap 50 or 60 dungeon, you're gonna spend more time healing normally (usually). Etc. Etc.

Pretty much the right track.

It's not just healer/pet skill but tank and dps matters a lot. If DPS is slow and tank has to use up several cooldowns or not using at all those factors just prolong the amount of damage taken. The difference is night-and-day when you have 4 players that play up-to-par with their jobs compared to just a healer. An aggressive tank and healer can help make up for some slow/bad DPS.

Basic principle is that damage is the best mitigation in the game. (Just don't tell that to the non-cleric stance healers)

You're absolutely in the right track. As others have said, the more the pulls get prolonged, particularly the massive pulls like the one we've been talking about in Gubal, both your DPS and the tank's are gonna suffer.

I was in an Expert roulette the other day in which, just estimating by enmity gauges, I was constantly at the spot for highest DPS, with the BRD sometimes coming close on boss fights. Now, I know BRD has quelling strikes and that the enmity meters are not good indicators of damage, but I literally stayed at 2nd place for most of the bosses. This shouldn't happen even with Quelling Strikes for the opener. The tank tried to do the massive pull, and at first I was DPSing just fine, but after the tank had lost HG, Sentinel and Bulwark and I had already used Fey Illum, Rouse and WD, I eventually ran out of Lustrates and couldn't keep up with the damage since everything was still alive. Needless to say, I was also at the top of the enmity charts on every mob in the pull. In the end I flatlined on MP and we died, so the tank decided not to try that big pull again because DPS was so slow.

You'll come into this kind of situations every now and then, so I can just advice that you use the first pull to gauge your DF party's efficiency and performance and make decisions from there.

On trash pulls, if you do put up a Roused WD you'll most likely be able to let the DPS alone without healing even if they take damage from cleaves or AoEs. This also applies to boss AoE attacks. There are very few pulls that can kill a DPS provided the tank is holding most of the aggro. Even if the tank doesn't, Eos's kit is so powerful that you can DPS through you and the DPS taking damage from pulling hate without having to leave Cleric. I've cleared Expert dungeons with two DPS after the tank disconnects multiple times, and DPSd through it all just fine too.

All in all I'd say you're on the right track in your use of your fairies. Eventually you'll get more and more confidence and be able to judge your tanks better to see if you throw that panicked Lustrate at 20% HP or if you're confident enough to let WD and Embrace pull the tank back from the death :)

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

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Oh man I can't tell you how many times I've noticed I was in 2nd place for the Aggro a lot of the time. But I was never sure how to really feel or react to that and that if I take aggro from simply doing my job while barely healing then it's not my fault. At the same time I've had a lot of instances where I became a Healer Tank and toughed it out, can't really say what the tank was doing at the time though.
Sometimes I have waited to see how low the tank's health can drop while Eos maintains them but kinda save a lustrate ready in case. Then I wonder what goes through their head, if they're loving me for it or being terrified.
I kinda feel like the one thing that really stops me from being 100% on point is well.....my gaming set up for this game. I don't have the best pc or the highest speed internet but its enough to be able to play decently. I just find sometimes lag hits and my CS will flop. Dx

Hahaha. I'm pretty sure most everyday-DF tanks hate me, tbh. You could say I'm even callous about the tank's HP and what is a good emergency threshold, specially when my fairy buffs are up, but the occassions in which the tank dies on me are very rare, and usually when it happens it's because of a misinput or lag spikes, not because of CS uptime.

That said, I've had quite a bit of tanks praise my healing (or lack of, thereof, lol) in Duty Finder, so I guess that's how you notice where people stand on the healer DPS meta :P

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Apparently I'm getting told that in that exact pull you mentioned, your fairy can handle the whole thing without you healing.

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That would depend on the tank, the dps you're with and if you crit a aldo, I healed that pull many times and I can say for sure if you don't have a caster dps with lb2 ready, you'll need to heal a lot lol

I have died from fairy's dong exactly this they dont heal for that much , and when I tank I have had the worse times with scholars because of this method and the fact, the whole scholar is op Im just not seeing it and I have mine to level 53 myself Im still waiting to see it. Maybe in raids I guess but in for main I almost always have better experiences with astros or whm