Thoughts About Mentor Program

The mentor system has been flawed from the get-go. The icon next to your name is being used as a status symbol and most mentors are more interested in ultra-fast clears on the roulette so they can get achievements, rewards (glamour pieces, titles and mount). It's not rare to encounter impatient and rude mentors even on the mentor roulette.

Becoming a mentor is just another automated mechanic which unlocks more stuff for your character. Attaining or keeping the status doesn't require you to do anything and while rewarding people who are willing to go the extra mile to help fellow players is a noble idea, the way the rewards have been implemented doesn't reward helpfulness, but grinding and fast clear rates.

Becoming a mentor shouldn't be tied to some achievements, but rather to being eager to help inexperienced players. Having grind-y and unique rewards do not fit the program. Misbehaving mentors should be punished harder, as they should act as an example to newer players.

I can somewhat get behind this, but I'm not sure removing mentor rewards will help much. I remember in FFXI mentors were few and far between, and generally mocked just for being mentors. I wouldn't want to see that happen here. But stuff like the mount is indeed far too grindy, and encourages bad behavior. It also encourages people who have no interest in mentoring to nonetheless be a mentor.

I feel like mentor roulette is problematic in several ways. If I want to queue for mentor roulette, I have to be on my main (nothing else is i230), and I'm going to get an insignificant bonus. I feel like it would be much more helpful if I could queue on a class I was leveling with, where I was likely to be able to help relatively new players. And I'd much rather get an experience bonus than a few scripture and lore. My point being that the only compelling reason to even do the mentor roulette is to try to do 1,000 of them very quickly.

I don't agree with punishing players. Beyond the achievement requirements, no mentor agreed to help their fellow players, nor are they obligated to be a paragon of virtue that other players should aspire to. It is just another achievement with an new roullete that helps to alleviate Duty Finder queues.

The real issue is that the player community wants to make it more than what it is. If you want a real mentoring system. You should probably get rid of the rewards and build a system the requires actual time and effort by would be mentors.

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Originally Posted by Lan_Mantear

Beyond the achievement requirements, no mentor agreed to help their fellow players, nor are they obligated to be a paragon of virtue that other players should aspire to..

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Actually, that's exactly what they agreed to do when they became a mentor. Literally you need to confirm in a box the requirements and expectations of being a mentor.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

• Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.

• Be an exemplar for player etiquette.

• Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

While I agree some of the rewards for mentor roulette help undermine why it is there in the first place (and some are rude), it's a two way street in behavior. People like to oft point out how mentors misbehave, but what people do not realize is that mentors can run into equally as impatient and rude players - just for trying to be helpful. There are times people berate you for giving advice or if someone is legitimately new, others will become impatient with you for offering advice to him/her. Other times people can just be passive aggressive just because you queued for mentor and can't turn off the crown. I still to this day remember queuing for Aery on my main, and one player was just incredibly nasty until the last boss for a reason beyond me (even the tank was puzzled). It wasn't until the last boss he mentioned me being a mentor and what I did wrong. I didn't even know I had the crown on at that time.

Since then I leave it off and don't give advice unless they personally ask for it or I see the party is having ample difficulty clearing the content we are in. To that, other mentors probably do the same as me to avoid backlash. Sometimes, it's not that mentors do not want to help, but the help is not wanted/appreciated.

I agree that people are doing it for the title and achievements, not for the purpose it was made for. Mentors have a bad reputation already among some players.

If you remove the achievement then what is the mentor reward? Not implementing that everything in game must have a reward.
But then not many players will be interested in becoming one.

I'd say make the achievements depend on the number of commendation you get as a mentor not the number of times you use the mentor roulette.
This will make people do their role as mentor properly in order to get commendations rather than seed run everything.

This is a problem with individual mentors, not mentors as a collective.

When someone is rude to you, harasses you, griefs you, or otherwise negatively impacts your game play experience, you have a right to file a report against them and GMs can review the instance log and take action.

It's the entire community's responsibility to police abuse, not only the job of GMs, who can't be everywhere.

Would it help if SE made some changes to the mentor system and entry requirements? Absolutely. Do they remove mentor status from people who abuse it? Yes.

All we hear about on the forum is people complaining about mentor abuse, yet we never see people sharing stories about the mentors who are living up to the term. I've seen plenty of them.

Commendations aren't necessarily a suitable reward. I've already got the max commendation rewards, personally. A lot of people who are mentors are probably past or near it. I'd agree with removing achievement rewards (and changing the icon from a crown) and just give mentors some other kind of rewards. Extra mhachi matter, or bonus scripture, whatever.

Mentor program i could be wrong but most use it for their own advantage rather then helping new players.
I am sure there are some helpful people but moreso it is me me me sort of thing

As it is, the mentor crown seems to be attracting the wrong kind of people. I've seen more horribad and outright rude mentors than helpful/skilled/nice ones. There have been reports of mentors trying to votekick sprouts for not running dungeons fast enough. All because of the rewards.

IMHO there shouldn't have been any rewards for mentors to begin with. That would have meant far less mentors, of course, but those with the crown would have probably been at least somewhat better than the ones we have now. The crown itself is a kind of bling bling item too, a watering can might have been better.

I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done to "fix" the current situation. Maybe take away the crown (+rewards?) from the player if he/she gets reported often enough? Maybe have a separate commendation system for mentors with both up and down votes? That would probably be abused, though.

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Originally Posted by RubyScarlett

Actually, that's exactly what they agreed to do when they became a mentor. Literally you need to confirm in a box the requirements and expectations of being a mentor.

As a mentor you are expected to actively perform the following:

• Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.

• Be an exemplar for player etiquette.

• Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network and answer their queries in the chat channel.

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I read it more thoroughly. I was wrong, there is an agreement confirmation box when you become a mentor.

http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/dc9...9f4f549_75.png

However, it's based on the 'Honor' system. Many people cross their fingers while clicking on yes.

I am a mentor and I became one just recently because I am a social worker in real life so its only natural that I want to help other players in the game. I'm just trade craft mentor , because I am newer and I don't feel as tho I'm worthy to have the battle sword now. But I am always down to help if a newer players needs help running a dungeon I will gladly stop what Im doing to help them out , and I try not to give advice if I dono the answer so lately Ive found myself doing alot more research to give the right kinda advice. Im not a dungeon speed runner at all, and Im never rude but even being a mentor now I have found where some have been rude but also where just as many none mentor players are rude as well, this game lacks alot of tolerance, I dono maybe its because people are just tryin to squeez in pt, or what , but luckly its way more nice players than rude ones , but this game def doesn't lose out on those elitist types and that's crown or no crown

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

but this game def doesn't lose out on those elitist types and that's crown or no crown

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This bears repeating.

I sign up for at least one mentor roulette every day, not particularly for the rewards because I'm not grinding it and don't really expect to ever get to the monocle or the mount. I don't even really like the Astrope, I think it's too big and gaudy.

Some of them have been quick, easy, and fun.

Some of them have been absolutely horrible. We're talking synced EX primals with parties full of mostly new people who didn't watch a video, won't listen or do anything you give tips for, and smash face against the fight until it times out and you're kicked out of the instance. I've joined on dps and the party needed a tank so I left and queued for that specific duty as a tank. I don't really get rewards for any of it. It's a paltry amount of lore that you only get for the first time you queue. FC mates repeatedly ask me why I keep queueing for mentor roulette when quite frequently it's awful.

The answer is, because sometimes I am able to help. If I can help other people regardless of whether I'm commended or rewarded, then it was worth it. The mentor roulette itself gives access to do that for pretty much all the content in the game. I've come in as heals at a halfway through Weeping City, dps at final bosses, tank to replace one who bailed at the start of an Aurum Vale run.

Some people take the responsibility they accepted and they discharge their duties quietly, without fanfare or drama, without expectation of reward. You're not going to hear from or about those people. The forum is full of complaints without detail.

If you see someone abusing their mentor status - report them! But don't discount the good that people can do within the system.

I get the feeling that these sorts of threads start not because there's a serious problem, but because the OP ran into a bad experience with a bad mentor and has decided to blame the system instead of the player.

My experience with the mentor system has been much, much different. I see mentors actively and eagerly helping individuals who ask for assistance in Novice Network all the time. While there are mentors purely in it for the rewards (many brazen enough to admit it outright), they are a minority, not the majority. And, for a large part, even the rewards-driven mentors understand that they're going to get their rewards that much quicker if they help the novices that they run into succeed, rather than belittle them.

The mentor system, while not without its flaws, has been an OVERWHELMINGLY positive influence on the game. There are certainly bad eggs - I'm not blind to that - but the good mentors more than make up for them.

I do agree that the Astrope was a very poorly implemented reward. I think it should have been number-of-commendations-based (only comms earned as a mentor, during Mentor Roulette would count), rather than number-of-Roulettes-based. As the system stands, it does way too much to encourage folks to "grind" Mentor Roulettes, which can lead to impatience and bad behavior if the player feels a Roulette is taking too long.

Having said that, however, it's pretty undeniable that the Astrope succeeded in at least one regard: putting warm bodies into instances that normally would take much longer to fill. I don't like what it's done to the general reputation of mentors, but adding that reward DID fill a lot more instances, and continues to do so.

Misinfo mentors are a special kind of disease

I agree that I think a lot of "mentors" (using that term very loosely here) are in it for the shinies (crown, titles, and the double mount). However, removing rewards will just incite more keyboard/forum RAEG down the road, because people, regardless of it they are a good mentor or a bad mentor, play for rewards, and want to be rewarded for a job well done. Sure, there are true mentors out there that do not mentor for the sake of a crown icon, or a title, or a double mount that takes you forever to actually get. But the majority of mentors there like the incentives: good mentors, and bad. Removing them will just cause more backlash, even if it is from the majority doing it for just the sake of rewards.

I don't think that they should be reliant on commendations, and not because there are those that have already received all the commendation achievements in this game, but because a lot of players don't even participate in giving commendations outside of the 5 for the challenge log entry (if they even do that). I always try to comm people if they do a good job, but a lot of the time, I end up being the only one left in the instance, as everyone left before I could even give a comm! Plus, sometimes it's hard picking who to commend after an instance. There are several times where I have wanted to comm more than one individual for a job well done, but I obviously can't. So who do I pick? The wonderful mentor healer for giving tips and advice and keeping the party up while simultaneously adding their own DPS, or the baby sprout tank that did everything they could in the instance, held hate, and did their very best the entire run? I'm kind of rambling now, but I think you see what I mean.

The true mentors in this game won't care about the titles and the mount and the crown. They were mentoring well before the Mentor Program became a thing. But removing them will just cause a bazillion "Why did they take away my Mentor rewards?"/"Add incentives to the Mentor Program" threads to pop up here and elsewhere; it won't really solve the problem of bad/toxic mentors. That can only be solved by a proactive community reporting those mentors that are abusing sprouts, or abusing the system.

I have encountered terrible mentors. I have encountered wonderful mentors. I've seen lazy mentors spamming their 1-2-3 and never using a single buff. I've also seen mentors with optimized rotations and excellent DPS numbers. Unfortunately, there will always be bad/lazy/toxic people in any sort of game/system. Only the community can weed them out by taking appropriate action against those that don't follow the Mentor Program, and create a bad name for the good ones: report their actions to a GM for review, and, with enough strikes, that person will lose their mentor status (and perhaps even suffer a suspension or even a ban, if the transgressions were bad enough).

There is nothing about having rewards for people who legitimatly use their time to help newcomers.
Of course there is always people who will not care at all about being a mentor and will just exploit the new feature only to get the rewards.

I just wish SE had implemented a system similar to the Commendations, something like Mentor Commendations given in Mentor Roulette by novices when they're happy about how helpful a mentor was. And then the rewards could have been based on the Mentor Commendations count.