I am bringing up this matter due too a issue that happened in my previous Free company. The issue does not involve me nor did I involve myself. A member and high ranking officer of my former Free company was dismissed from the Free company by a lower ranking officer over silly matter. Now I am not here to discuss the matter at hand but how the dismissal and promote/demote system works.
Why are these systems made in a blanket format; where lower ranked players can dismiss or demote higher ranked players (Not sure about promote and demote). The dismissal and promote/demote functions should only effect players that are at a rank lower then the player using the command.
There are Free company's that want to give access lower ranked officers access to this command but don't do too its blanket format. This really needs to fixed so that lower ranked officers cannot kick higher ranked officers from the Free company. Abuse of this command can hurt a Free company but not as badly as Bank access or house access can. It is just out right silly too make the command in a blanket format as puts Free company leaders in the position of deciding how many if any ranks other then Free company leader get the command.
Thank you for your time.
Dismissal and promote/demote issue
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11-30-2016, 09:55 PMNanaWilohDismissal and promote/demote issue
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11-30-2016, 10:29 PMKallistra
I remember reading once that an FC had a lower ranked officer (which basically had invite, approval, and promote/demote to sort the new players) get mad at an FC leader so they either brought a friend into the FC and promoted them or simply promoted themselves to the highest officer class and they were able to clean out the FC chest and Gil. So I agree that the promotion/demotion thing does need some looking into. Scary stuff.
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12-01-2016, 02:29 AMLadyKairi
I was an FC leader at one point (granted it was almost a year ago), and I could swear that leaders have the ability to give certain rights to specific ranks (promote/demote being one of the various options). I think it's just a case of being careful of what ranks get certain functions, and who is trusted enough to be in those ranks. While I think someone shouldn't be able to kick someone who is at a higher rank than them, I think it's best to prepare for something like that to happen while forming the rank system. I know only my "coleader" and my officers (2-3 of my most trusted friends since I had to completely redo everything) got the right to promote/demote/kick people.
But I agree that people shouldn't be able to promote themselves to higher ranks either. That was one frustrating thing I had to deal with at one point, and it was such a headache >3> -
12-01-2016, 05:08 AMJunseiKei
I was curious and actually tested it myself. Holy moley, what a glaring flaw! My lowest ranked member was able to give themselves a sufficient rank to have access to things they weren't originally meant to have. Oh well, I guess SE figured you'd only give someone that kind of permission if they didn't already have a large amount of those privileges anyway. At least they can't promote themselves to leader.
Basically, don't give someone promotional or demotional duties unless you can trust the people with, basically, every aspect of your free company. -
12-01-2016, 05:30 AMNaunet
Eek! That's quite an oversight. Hopefully SE fixes it! Though... if it's been that way for three years now...
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12-01-2016, 05:38 AMNaria
Yeah, this has been in there since 2.0's launch and SE has not corrected it yet. It would be nice if they would. This is the reason that promote/demote is set to FC master only for my FC and the default rank when invited (which officers can do) has no permissions enabled.
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12-01-2016, 06:22 AMChimeric
The thing about this is that, despite whatever order your ranks are set in, it's only a matter of what permissions a rank has; there's no actual hierarchy built in to ranks as you set them up. Any rank that has promote/demote or dismiss can promote/demote/dismiss any other rank that's not FC Leader.
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12-01-2016, 06:34 AMChalbee
I never even considered this! I always assumed that the system enforced the hierarchy after you organize the ranks. *Hastily changes FC's permissions*
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12-01-2016, 06:36 AMJunseiKeiThis, honestly. So many games have a rank hierarchy built in... I know I assumed FFXIV did, too. >_< Wonder if it hasn't been "fixed" simply because not a lot of people have had an exposure to the possible issue at hand?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimeric
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12-01-2016, 07:15 AMNaunetPossibly, but now that I think about it, I'm fairly certain I read threads about this very same issue back in 2.0, so it's not like this hasn't been talked about before.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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12-01-2016, 09:15 AMalimdia
I recall a dev response on this in mid-late ARR, the way it works right now is intentional, there's no hierarchy set, the system only recognizes two groups, you either are the FC master or you aren't, you can make 10 ranks in the group [you aren't FC master] and none of them will have power over the other, only the FC master has power over everything.
There are three sensitive ranks you must control, the permission [Rank Settings], the permission [Promotion/Demotion], and the permission [Member Dismissal], you should only give these permission to your absolutely most trustworthy members, if in doubt remove it from every rank and leave it to the FC master to handle promotions and dismissals. -
12-01-2016, 10:02 AMNaunet
They may have responded, but "working as intended" doesn't make the system any less... weird and ready for abuse.
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12-01-2016, 10:03 AMFrowny
It may be a flaw, but a good FC lead should be managing their permissions. It isn't set up and forget.
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11-28-2017, 02:24 AMVeritas-Ancora
I'm bringing this back from the dead, because of the dead.
A year ago, one of our beloved guild members and friends died to cancer. Because of this, we have an InLovingMemory rank.
His character remains in our community. We don't want officers to accidentally kick a player out that can never be re-invited. We tested InLovingMemory a rank above our officers on another player to see if they could be kicked.
They were kicked out by a lower-ranking class.
Please offer an option to not kick players of a higher rank. If this accident ever happens, it can never be undone. -
11-28-2017, 02:27 AMCanadane
There's only two ranks. Master and not-master.
You can set privileges as you see fit to the second tier of users and even split them up in terms of responsibility, but in no way does one not-master outrank another not-master. -
11-28-2017, 02:46 AMNephthysVasudan
You guys realize that talking about "rank" is only a figurative statement....its all permission based.
Rank is nothing more than a fancy title. If you don't set it up right..your going to get the weird stuff.
Perhaps SE should install a heirachal (sp?) structure anyway....would make it easier. -
11-28-2017, 02:54 AMvmj2324Be careful of the rank you give to your friend, make sure the rank you put him in cannot be demoted because of lack of activity. This happen do our FC master yesterday. He was demoted due to lack of activity. We at first thought it was a bug until our master logged in on his alt and said that he had not been on the alt that was the master of the FC for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora
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11-28-2017, 03:17 AMCanadaneThe master status will always have this inactivity limitation.Quote:
Originally Posted by vmj2324
It's to prevent someone from quitting and never coming back, leaving a FC leaderless. -
11-28-2017, 03:26 AMSasha
There are good and bad points to this, ultimately it comes down to trust. Specially if the FC leader leaves or is offline and something needs to be done right now. If you don't trust someone then you better not give them any power at all but problems can be made whether you fully control things or not.
It'd be real fun watching a jilted ex/2nd in command ruin everything without a option to stop them.