Shire tank gear

With all the Parry on most of the gear instead of FAR more useful stats, is it even much of an upgrade over the Lore?
If it matters, I don't raid. I've only just started tanking so excuse me if this is a dumb question.

The only way to tell would be to add up the stat weights of the increase to vit and str and see if they outweight the prototype gear. But tbh if you dont raid, go with which ever you want.

It's a definite upgrade over lore, going from 240 to 260 the amount of extra STR and VIT will see to that.

Over proto Alexandrian is a little more iffy, 250 to 260 if the secondary stats are decent it could outweigh the slight increase in STR and VIT.

Only left side shire pieces I've gotten for tank is the head cause it has decent secondaries and the body cause the Alexandrian is just as bad. The rest I've stuck with proto Alexandrian for now I'm waiting for the next Mhachi raid to see how the stats are on that set before I decide how to move forward with shire.

And of course if you're rich HQ 250 crafted sets are likely better than most shire pieces.

Don't worry, Parry and Accuracy will probably removed from the game with the expansion, so they have to replace them with one of the stats not on the gear now.
If you don't raid just take the highest ilvl.

Yes it is. Parry might be rubbish but it's a secondary stat, you will still get a big increase in your primary stats which are far more important.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Only left side shire pieces I've gotten for tank is the head cause it has decent secondaries and the body cause the Alexandrian is just as bad.

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The alex chest is the best choice for those who don't use V materia overmelds on the right side. The only shire left side gear that's better than the alex counterpart is the head.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

The alex chest is the best choice for those who don't use V materia overmelds on the right side. The only shire left side gear that's better than the alex counterpart is the head.

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Proto alex, not alex. Obviously alex gear is better but if they're considering between shire gear and lore gear they probably don't have access to alex gear yet.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

It's a definite upgrade over lore, going from 240 to 260 the amount of extra STR and VIT will see to that.

Over proto Alexandrian is a little more iffy, 250 to 260 if the secondary stats are decent it could outweigh the slight increase in STR and VIT.

Only left side shire pieces I've gotten for tank is the head cause it has decent secondaries and the body cause the Alexandrian is just as bad. The rest I've stuck with proto Alexandrian for now I'm waiting for the next Mhachi raid to see how the stats are on that set before I decide how to move forward with shire.

And of course if you're rich HQ 250 crafted sets are likely better than most shire pieces.

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I totally understand. I just want to say, though, that I tried going this route before, but it did NOT work in my favor. Seems that many PF groups set an iLv220 fight to iLv250.

If you don't raid you don't really have to worry about secondary stats, just focus on increasing your IL, since Str and Vit are the things you should mainly be concerned about. If you feel greedy meld your gear with some materia so that you don't feel gross being filled with Parry.

i know about parry rework but nothing about accuracy although i would still prefer a base stats or IL cap over an acc cap for raiding.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Don't worry, Parry and Accuracy will probably removed from the game with the expansion, so they have to replace them with one of the stats not on the gear now.
If you don't raid just take the highest ilvl.

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Originally Posted by RockGodOne

With all the Parry on most of the gear instead of FAR more useful stats, is it even much of an upgrade over the Lore?
If it matters, I don't raid. I've only just started tanking so excuse me if this is a dumb question.

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All Scripture gear is an upgrade over Lore gear. The Parry is not that much of a penalty.

Only 1 of the i250 Proto-Alexandrian pieces is "better" than the i260 Shire gear. The Proto-Alexandrian boots are Crit/Parry vs the Shire's Acc/Parry, but the Shire boots Acc is kinda required to hit the Acc cap for Alex savage which has a bigger influence on damage in the long run.

The Proto-Alexandrian and Shire pants have mostly identical damage weights while the Shire pants have more hp. So the question there comes down to how much Skillspeed you need. Need Skillspeed? Proto-Alex, else Shire.

This is also not getting into Pentamelded crafted gear.

The shire gear is pretty terrible nothing but parry and accuracy however, if you don't raid it is a straight upgrade over lore the only contenders are the crafted gear pentamelded and with materia being cheap and easy to get it's not that much of an issue. The problem with Shire gear is that the parry is not needed and accuracy is barely needed and i've seen tanks with like 900 accuracy and tons of parry while their crit det n are super low with sks being really really high which leads to TP issues as a pld.

It's either raid and be well optimized or stick it out with Shire gear and have terrible stats all round.

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Originally Posted by Awful

The shire gear is pretty terrible nothing but parry and accuracy however, if you don't raid it is a straight upgrade over lore the only contenders are the crafted gear pentamelded and with materia being cheap and easy to get it's not that much of an issue. The problem with Shire gear is that the parry is not needed and accuracy is barely needed and i've seen tanks with like 900 accuracy and tons of parry while their crit det n are super low with sks being really really high which leads to TP issues as a pld.

It's either raid and be well optimized or stick it out with Shire gear and have terrible stats all round.

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Uhm... That is misinformation.

The full i260 Shire tank set has 696 Accuracy (most of the Alex Savage requirement). Only way you are seeing tanks with over 911 Acc is if they have the Shire body, pants, feet and earrings and the Proti-Alex head, hands, bracelet and neckband. At that point every piece but the belt and rings has accuracy on it.

Short explanation: go raid for optimal stats distribution. 9 and 10 are within the easier quadrant of content and those 2 turns reward the most loots. Something SE needs to implement further into all other raid patches for all other jobs as well. If you aren't raiding, don't expect to have optimal stats, and those secondaries don't really matter anyway in most contents.

the Prototype Alexandrian Boots was the very first piece of gear i went for when the patch dropped. Quickly replaced it though, fending boots dropped on my first a10s clear xD.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Uhm... That is misinformation.

The full i260 Shire tank set has 696 Accuracy (most of the Alex Savage requirement). Only way you are seeing tanks with over 911 Acc is if they have the Shire body, pants, feet and earrings and the Proti-Alex head, hands, bracelet and neckband. At that point every piece but the belt and rings has accuracy on it.

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It was pretty sarcastic but most tanks are at over 800+ accuracy savage raiders are under 700 without food and meet the cap with Priestly Omlettes I was just saying that most tanks that don't raid are using mostly shire gear and have tons of accuracy.

And ill still say most of the shire tank gear is pretty garbage because it is.

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Originally Posted by Awful

It was pretty sarcastic but most tanks are at over 800+ accuracy savage raiders are under 700 without food and meet the cap with Priestly Omlettes I was just saying that most tanks that don't raid are using mostly shire gear and have tons of accuracy.

And ill still say most of the shire tank gear is pretty garbage because it is.

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It is still very much misinformation.

The stat weight difference between a full i270 Augmented Shire set (with a second unaugmented Shire Ring to fill the second ring slot) and a 700 Acc after food i270 BiS set is only a 3% to 5% increase. The Shire set may be mostly inferior but that does not make it garbage.

The full i270 shire set with i270 slaying ring only has like 290 less stat weight compared to the best non overmeld set which weighs just above 6.1k stat weight: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/XKP2. That's not even a 5% loss in stat weight. Sure it is a pretty big difference, but considering how easy you can get this set (roulettes and upcoming 24 man raid) I wouldn't call it garbage.

Edit: Just to add for people who are thinking of stepping into savage raids for the first time, by mixing a9s-a10s drops you can improve the full shire set above to just around 180 stat weight below the full i270 set with savage weapon, chest and pants, so that's like 3% less stat weight below people who can clear a12s.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

That's not even a 5% loss in stat weight.

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Well to be fair, for those that care. A 5% loss in Stat weight is not a 5% loss in DPS.

On tank losing 290 worth of weighted stats is probably close to 14%. Which is pretty significant.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Well to be fair, for those that care. A 5% loss in Stat weight is not a 5% loss in DPS.

On tank losing 290 worth of weighted stats is probably close to 14%. Which is pretty significant.

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Yeah it's a big difference but still not really garbage considering how much lower the time you need to invest to get it compared to clearing savage.

Btw where did that number come from? I kinda expected the dps loss to be much higher than the stat weight difference since the loss of crit is huge and crit scales better the more you have it, but I never guessed it'd be 14%.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Btw where did that number come from? I kinda expected the dps loss to be much higher than the stat weight difference since the loss of crit is huge and crit scales better the more you have it, but I never guessed it'd be 14%.

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Because the weights are based off their relation to 1 VIT/STR I just converted the potential of 290.

(290×0.45)/9 *** tanks are different because 1 VIT/STR = 0.45 attack power compared to other classes where it's 1:1 for main stat.

It's a crude estimate but it's close enough.

Stat Weights of Shire/lore
(These are stat weights for shield oath paladin since thats OPs post class. I used my WIP stat weight calculator to get these numbers: https://zamphire.github.io/XIVStatCa...c%20PLDSH.html)
Lore(no melds)
Chest: 342.111, Head: 224.545, Gloves: 169, Legs: 274, Boots: 194.968, Belt: 154.591
Shire(no melds)
Chest: 359.38, Head: 264.312, Gloves: 228.080, Legs: 331, Boots: 203, Belt 165.2

Yes shire is better than lore upgrade to shire. At least according to stat weights. Bust some prototype will be better than 260 shire you can do math easy nuff to see.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Well to be fair, for those that care. A 5% loss in Stat weight is not a 5% loss in DPS.

On tank losing 290 worth of weighted stats is probably close to 14%. Which is pretty significant.

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On PLD I can do ~1.6k DPS on the A12S SSS fight, at i269 with almost BiS. I really doubt I would lose over 200 DPS by having full i270 Shire gear, that's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Launched

On PLD I can do ~1.6k DPS on the A12S SSS fight, at i269 with almost BiS. I really doubt I would lose over 200 DPS by having full i270 Shire gear, that's just ridiculous.

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Using that weight to damage conversion I've calculated pretty close to actual values on different gear sets I've tried. It would not surprise me given how much stronger secondaries are on tanks than other jobs.

Is that really all PLD does? My Warrior test set @i251 pulls 1600 DPS. That isn't even fully melded.

At 269 my war does around 1.9k when I killed the a12s dummy (iirc around 30s left).

hella ye im goin to get over 1200 parry, soon.....

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

At 269 my war does around 1.9k when I killed the a12s dummy (iirc around 30s left).

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Interesting. Comparing both our gear sets, yours has 545 higher weight.

Calculated - (545*0.45)/9 = 27.25%

It should be 2036 DPS or around 43 Seconds left on the A12S SSS Dummy.

Unless my values are a little high? But I don't think so because the DPS requirements are so low for A12S in relation to A8S, which was 30s left @ i240 on the A8S SSS Dummy.

That leaves Bis with the Alex Belt and Slaying Ring @ +3.5% for pretty much a max A12S SSS Dummy without food or pots @ 2107 DPS with 47 seconds left - VS a Shire Set @ ~1800 DPS

still seems reasonable since you are losing almost 7% DPS from the loss of CRT alone. A lot of Shire pieces are really bad.

I've tested it only once or twice so maybe it was lack of fell cleave crits during berserk (only 5 fell cleaves during berserk), or maybe I'm just not good enough lol.

On the other hand I'm quite sure I once had nearly 40s left on a8s dummy back then with i240 relic, but that might just be due to lucky crits.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

I've tested it only once or twice so maybe it was lack of fell cleave crits during berserk (only 5 fell cleaves during berserk), or maybe I'm just not good enough lol.

On the other hand I'm quite sure I once had nearly 40s left on a8s dummy back then with i240 relic, but that might just be due to lucky crits.

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From looking at your logs it's most likely just being unlucky on Fell Cleave Crits lol. Unfortunately I mess around around on the SSS Dummys way too much crunching numbers.

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For those interested in trying. You can basically take your set with Alexander BiS Pieces and unequip both rings to get a feel for how it would be in full Shire.

I thought tanks only needed ACC as secondary stats, coz hit enemy = make aggron. and thats it lul, hold aggron is tank problem, cant hold aggron? dont tank, easy.
not enough damage on boss? dps problem
I don't think you need 3000 crit, 3000 det to beat any content ingame

lots of peeps are too sirius bout theyre numbers demn lol as long as you get hit in da face you're an awesome tank xD

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Originally Posted by Mirch

I thought tanks only needed ACC as secondary stats, coz hit enemy = make aggron. and thats it lul, hold aggron is tank problem, cant hold aggron? dont tank, easy.

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That's not all. Also: hitting harder = more aggro. And the same applies to DPS, harder hitting DPS are genereating more aggro a tank has to hold.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

not enough damage on boss? dps problem
I don't think you need 3000 crit, 3000 det to beat any content ingame

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False Assumption, overallDPS is party responsability, same as damage mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

lots of peeps are too sirius bout theyre numbers demn lol as long as you get hit in da face you're an awesome tank xD

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This is just the lower bar for tanking, even for me as a casual Pleb. It's sad, that a good Part of our tankplayers don't want to be better than this.

the fact is all those propropropro suggestion are not neccessary to clear any content, u only need the accuracy, if u cant hold aggron it's your problem, don't tank, easy.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

the fact is all those propropropro suggestion are not neccessary to clear any content, u only need the accuracy, if u cant hold aggron it's your problem, don't tank, easy.

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Why would I wanna just sit there and hit my 1-2-3 combo over and over and nothing else? A tank needs to gauge their party, know when to DPS, when to mitigate, it's party wide not just on them, sure you can have just accuracy but you need secondaries. Those are very important aside from Str and Vit which are your main stats, as for aggro it's the tanks main thing to do basically the steps are:

1) Have aggro/maintain threat
2) Mitigate dmg
3) DPS

Being a good tank requires a lot out of players if you can't do all 3 you'll never be optimal and i'm talking Savage, if it's dungeons and i'm with my geared monk friend I usually do 2 threat combos then i'm outta grit to DPS while cycling CDs and getting ready for the next big pull. I dunno what "pro" strats you're talking about but doing mechanics right and DPSing as much as you can are what players do to push content healers do it, tanks do it and good DPS are already miles ahead.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

the fact is all those propropropro suggestion are not neccessary to clear any content, u only need the accuracy, if u cant hold aggron it's your problem, don't tank, easy.

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How far are you in raiding? Maybe that will shed some light. Tanks have way less excuse on DPS part VS healers because damage output is ingrained in most skills that any tank has. FFXIV is one of the few MMOs that focus more on the DPS part, hence the DPS meta, it's a different approach from other games and majority of tanks just don't get it OR probably wants to stay on the "im tank i only tank, if i want to dps i play dps" bubble.

http://i.imgur.com/ZWw1pnc.jpg

Dem meme, except that healers generally have less weight on DPS responsibility. "I AM GOOD AT TANKING", said every shit tank ever. If you are a good tank in this game, you can tank while doing decent damage.

You can hold aggro well, mitigate well, and do great dps all at the same time. Why would I want to play with a tank who can only do one, instead of all three? Sounds stupid.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

"I AM GOOD AT TANKING", said every shit tank ever. If you are a good tank in this game, you can tank while doing decent damage.

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This is so true it hurts, I filled in for an A11S the other week with a friend to get his page I was main tanking on my Drk doing 1600+ DPS the other tank was doing 500 as the OT, both healers were healing and we kept wiping at 10% why? Because both the tanks and the healers weren't pulling their weight I appreciate FFXIV being the game it is to allow tanks and healers DPS in the meta that we're in nothing has changed since 2.0 we still need DPS in raiding.