[Dev Request] - A Fourth Waymarker

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11-23-2016, 02:17 AM
Azper

[Dev Request] - A Fourth Waymarker

Would it be possible to add a "D" waymarker to the list? It seems like a lot of battle mechanics introduced in the 3.0 era, from Extreme Primals to Raids, would benefit from having an additional marker added to make coordination and strategy easier for executing certain battle phases.

Just a thought!
11-23-2016, 02:21 AM
Alistaire

They've been asked before and specifically responded with saying no "because that's not what they're for; they're for 3-party raids".

Which is almost fine as a response. If SE is going to continue to be stubborn in that reply, we should just make a new request, for not just 1 but 4 new waymarkers to be intended for raid use.
11-23-2016, 02:33 AM
Theodric

I, too, would like to see sufficient focus given to a D.

Waymarks are incredibly useful - especially on fights such as Sophia EX that are based around moving to a specific area as a group.
11-23-2016, 02:41 AM
JunseiKei

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

If SE is going to continue to be stubborn in that reply, we should just make a new request, for not just 1 but 4 new waymarkers to be intended for raid use.

I cannot hit like enough times.
11-23-2016, 02:49 AM
CosmicKirby

Better Thread Title:
"Square, Please Give Us the D"
11-23-2016, 03:42 AM
Azper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

They've been asked before and specifically responded with saying no "because that's not what they're for; they're for 3-party raids".

Which is almost fine as a response. If SE is going to continue to be stubborn in that reply, we should just make a new request, for not just 1 but 4 new waymarkers to be intended for raid use.

Ahh, apologies then. I didn't realize they'd already made an official decline on this. That's a shame. :(
11-23-2016, 03:50 AM
bounddreamer

Square, please give us the D.
11-23-2016, 03:52 AM
Kaurie

Personally, I'd like to have even more options than just an additional one.
11-23-2016, 06:42 AM
MrsFluffyButt

Quote:

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Square, please give us the D.

Lel ;^)

(cos the D means a male whoopsie, lel)
11-23-2016, 07:00 AM
Heliantheae

Getting flashbacks to learning RavEX over TS.
"FOUR SWORDS GO TO D!"
"WHERE'S D?"
11-23-2016, 09:25 PM
Kazrah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

They've been asked before and specifically responded with saying no "because that's not what they're for; they're for 3-party raids".

They should know by now that 3-party raids have become too simplified to make use of raid markers these days.

On the other hand, I suppose if you try to make something idiot-proof, someone's just going to build a bigger idiot....
11-24-2016, 05:23 AM
Frowny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

They've been asked before and specifically responded with saying no "because that's not what they're for; they're for 3-party raids".

That is such a horrible excuse. It doesn't matter what they were designed for long ago... people adapted and found uses outside of what the devs intended. Instead of telling us "lolno, not what we wanted" they should embrace the community finding new uses...
11-24-2016, 05:28 AM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazrah

They should know by now that 3-party raids have become too simplified to make use of raid markers these days.

On the other hand, I suppose if you try to make something idiot-proof, someone's just going to build a bigger idiot....

I find them pretty useful in Weeping City. Makes it easy to mark which add each tank is getting during the second boss and also mark which side is left during Ozma.
11-24-2016, 07:52 AM
Felis

Just ask for 4 party raids (32 people)
11-24-2016, 07:58 AM
SenorPatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

Better Thread Title:
"Square, Please Give Us the D"

This is how you win the internet people. Read it and learn
11-24-2016, 08:20 AM
Kazrah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I find them pretty useful in Weeping City. Makes it easy to mark which add each tank is getting during the second boss and also mark which side is left during Ozma.

Except Weeping City has been out for months now. Unless they're new, they should know what to do, and even then, it's not hard to say "hey, tank the add that spawns on that side when it comes up" or "stand with us if you're not the tank".

The only real time markers are necessary from what I've seen has been a couple of the Crystal Tower raids, which have been out for so long that most people have forgotten the mechanics.

Back to the main argument, we shouldn't be asking "why" but "why not".
11-24-2016, 09:22 AM
Paladinleeds

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felis

Just ask for 4 party raids (32 people)

100 party raids (800 people). Let's make it happen!
11-24-2016, 09:40 AM
Frowny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

I find them pretty useful in Weeping City. Makes it easy to mark which add each tank is getting during the second boss and also mark which side is left during Ozma.

To be perfectly honest, if you NEED to mark left then there are bigger issues to worry about. Helpful yes, but easily done without.
11-24-2016, 11:06 AM
Alistaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

100 party raids (800 people). Let's make it happen!

Just made this based on how I picture this going:

https://bucket.bluegartr.com/701b77a...1f8d75391c.jpg
11-24-2016, 11:09 AM
Eul

Why only waymark D? Why not make it until Z, or make it number and ASCII symbol too? :rolleyes:
11-24-2016, 11:11 AM
Alistaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eul

Why only waymark D? Why not make it until Z, or make it number and ASCII symbol too? :rolleyes:

Back to getting serious, realistically there's only a need for 4, quite a few fights now are designed with 4 gathering points in mind. You could make an argument for 8 points if people are really that bad at determining where the middle point between 2 markers would be, or if some people wanted each person in the party to have a specific spot, but considering they've said no to a 4th before if we can at least get them to budge on that we'll be fine enough.
11-24-2016, 11:13 AM
Eul

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Back to getting serious, realistically there's only a need for 4, quite a few fights now are designed with 4 gathering points in mind. You could make an argument for 8 points if people are really that bad at determining where the middle point between 2 markers would be, but considering they've said no to a 4th before if we can at least get them to budge on that we'll be fine enough.

In raid or extreme primal prespective, I agree for 4th waymark too. Things like A9S or Sophia EX is pretty in need.
11-24-2016, 12:16 PM
tymora

If you design something and people don't use it or use it some other way, it is a design fail.
If the users request a new design based on how they use it and the designers don't do it, then it is a designer fail.

https://www.ted.com/talks/tom_hulme_...from_shortcuts
11-24-2016, 02:17 PM
Brian_

They should just give us the ability to draw on the field so that we can just sketch out the strategy.

Of course we'd also draw a bunch of penises everywhere.
11-24-2016, 05:14 PM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Except Weeping City has been out for months now. Unless they're new, they should know what to do, and even then, it's not hard to say "hey, tank the add that spawns on that side when it comes up" or "stand with us if you're not the tank".

Yes and I still see tanks not picking up the adds or worse fighting over one while the two others are running wild when marks are not placed. It is very easy to ignore chat, but much harder to ignore the glowing circle with your party's letter over it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frowny

To be perfectly honest, if you NEED to mark left then there are bigger issues to worry about. Helpful yes, but easily done without.

You would be surprised how many players run right when there are no marks.
11-24-2016, 05:55 PM
Yeol

It wouldn't hurt :)
11-25-2016, 12:45 AM
Alistaire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian_

They should just give us the ability to draw on the field so that we can just sketch out the strategy.

Of course we'd also draw a bunch of penises everywhere.

You still need something as a marker that stays up, people get disoriented.
11-25-2016, 03:16 AM
ErikMynhier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azper

Would it be possible to add a "D" waymarker to the list? It seems like a lot of battle mechanics introduced in the 3.0 era, from Extreme Primals to Raids, would benefit from having an additional marker added to make coordination and strategy easier for executing certain battle phases.

Just a thought!

That's actually a great idea. A forth would help taking new people through things like Ravana Ex.
11-25-2016, 04:56 AM
Kazrah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Yes and I still see tanks not picking up the adds or worse fighting over one while the two others are running wild when marks are not placed. It is very easy to ignore chat, but much harder to ignore the glowing circle with your party's letter over it.

And that's why you do chat BEFORE the fight starts. This is not rocket surgery, and if it feels like it is, maybe best to take a break.

Also, last I checked, this thread is for a fourth waymarker, not Weeping City horror stories. I understand that you have a semi-valid argument for using waymarkers in 24-payer raids, but please do not try to derail this thread, as that fourth waymarker is something that I believe we need given the the ongoing theme of fights designed to require it.
11-25-2016, 05:17 AM
Frowny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You would be surprised how many players run right when there are no marks.

To put it bluntly, this is what happens when you make 95% of the content not require much thought. I'm not disagreeing with you, it is just irritating when something requires just a tiny bit of thought and people kick the ball into orbit. There's derping which we've all done, and there's being a liability.
11-25-2016, 06:47 AM
Ultimatecalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazrah

And that's why you do chat BEFORE the fight starts. This is not rocket surgery, and if it feels like it is, maybe best to take a break.

Far to many have a tendency to ignore/disable alliance chat. Posting a message in chat does not guarantee that anyone saw it or even if they saw it read it. The strength of both waymarks and target marks is their near 100% visibility.

Quote:

Also, last I checked, this thread is for a fourth waymarker, not Weeping City horror stories. I understand that you have a semi-valid argument for using waymarkers in 24-payer raids, but please do not try to derail this thread, as that fourth waymarker is something that I believe we need given the the ongoing theme of fights designed to require it.

You were the one who said they were useless in 24-man content and I countered that I found them useful. You are the one who is using a No True Scotsman based on them being useless in 24-man raids and I pointed out two examples where their uses is beneficial in the most recent 24-man raid.

Also no fight needs a fourth waymark. Heck, few fights need any waymarks as they are designed. No fight needs North, South, East, and West (or 4 other points) marked and the floors of pretty much every Raid and Primal fight post-2.1 have markings that suggest the safe places to stand/position. All that the waymarks do is mark things such that these positions are more visible and easier to communicate. In the end they are nice and very helpful, but the devs have likely determined that the costs and potential problems (such as players causing conflicts by spelling out BAD with the waymarks) of adding a 4th "D" waymark outweigh the benefits from adding it.

That said I would not be against them adding a set of Numbered 1, 2 and 3 waymarkers.