Black Mage: Fear me! [Devs]

Heya community, I'm looking at the class revisions chart and breaking it down into layman's terms-which I may post later-and I remembered that there is a type of spell missing from this game :/

Fear.

Please Don't start the WoW blah blah.

Its a simple request, possibly for a future BLM ability. In fact, to make it a more interesting spell, make it... Frog!

Making your foes actually run from you can give actual use to binding abilities, as I find that most of the time as an archer I have no real reason to bind my foes since the effect fades so fast. This would also be helpful for the solo mage, as we all know mages are paper bags.

Please consider this request,

-Raidrien Ascher of Selbina :)

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Heya community, I'm looking at the class revisions chart and breaking it down into layman's terms-which I may post later-and I remembered that there is a type of spell missing from this game :/

Fear.

Please Don't start the WoW blah blah.

Its a simple request, possibly for a future BLM ability. In fact, to make it a more interesting spell, make it... Frog!

Making your foes actually run from you can give actual use to binding abilities, as I find that most of the time as an archer I have no real reason to bind my foes since the effect fades so fast. This would also be helpful for the solo mage, as we all know mages are paper bags.

Please consider this request,

-Raidrien Ascher of Selbina :)

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There's no reason o use it otherwise. There's really no fight that it is needed in...Used only in certain occasions in XI when you pulled Faust so he wouldn't destroy you.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

There's nothing I want more in life than to have the mob run away from me... and it being my fault.

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Originally Posted by Gath

There's no reason o use it otherwise. There's really no fight that it is needed in...Used only in certain occasions in XI when you pulled Faust so he wouldn't destroy you.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

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By the way, congrats on your FFXIVCore acquisition. I for one welcome our new Lalafell overlord.

Too broken, I can convert then make the mobs run away? I'd like to see a real crowd control class, as much as DCUO sucked, it had a good controller (crowd control / energy battery) class. I would like to maybe see a rdm later, that instead of the classic "nuke, cure, enfeeble, buff, convert, refresh, and do it again baby" (not a real rotation but i tried to capture all roles there), I would like to see rdm enfeeble obviously, maybe even have some nuke power, and some cure power, but a heavy emphasis on mp battery and crowd control would be nice. I guess they could give blm one crowd control move to make the transition from blm to rdm easier.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Heya community, I'm looking at the class revisions chart and breaking it down into layman's terms-which I may post later-and I remembered that there is a type of spell missing from this game :/

Fear.

Please Don't start the WoW blah blah.

Its a simple request, possibly for a future BLM ability. In fact, to make it a more interesting spell, make it... Frog!

Making your foes actually run from you can give actual use to binding abilities, as I find that most of the time as an archer I have no real reason to bind my foes since the effect fades so fast. This would also be helpful for the solo mage, as we all know mages are paper bags.

Please consider this request,

-Raidrien Ascher of Selbina :)

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Arcanist = yes please
BLM = no thank

for BLM to have sleep is more tha enough, imo gieve a DD class more CC skill will be unfair for the CC class come later

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Making your foes actually run from you can give actual use to binding abilities, as I find that most of the time as an archer I have no real reason to bind my foes since the effect fades so fast. This would also be helpful for the solo mage, as we all know mages are paper bags.

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Why not just bring back the old monster AI where the enemies run always in the middle of the battle away from you and then you miss them because they are out of range? ^^

I would like to see a Fear spell, attached to a Necro.

My 1 gil is worth a lot more than Gath's 1 gil.

i hated the fear skill in every modern MMOrpg...

im not getting the sense of that stupid spell.. it causes other mobs to add, it looks stupid, its used way too often... and we have sleepga ingame

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

By the way, congrats on your FFXIVCore acquisition. I for one welcome our new Lalafell overlord.

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Gath has always been owner of the forums. I saw how Jannestia had it's signature so Gath thought he would represent his feelings.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Well maybe not specifically on black mage, (i thought that would make sense even for a higher lvl spell) toad/frog/fear would be a great spell for a mage. also i noticed that both cnj and thm get their own variations of sleep, which is stupid. they should just give one sleep (probably thm) and have it so the skill can only be given to DoM. This way cnj can have room for another different but useful ability. also i would hope that foes cant be woken up from magick being castsed cuz that would defeat the purpose of a sleep spell for mages. :/

so, ahem, is binding the mob, then running out of range YOURSELF too stupid of an idea?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

so, ahem, is binding the mob, then running out of range YOURSELF too stupid of an idea?

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It is actually, because as I stated, bind doesn't last long enough for that to be a useful tactic. Between server delay and the effects of bind, if you run of range you still are subject to the attacks of your foe. I'm not stupid doctor mog, or else I wouldn't have suggested this skill.

Bind doesn't break too quickly. It breaks on Damage. To keep stuff bound as an Archer, use other abilities that bind it to keep it chain bound.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

Bind doesn't break too quickly. It breaks on Damage. To keep stuff bound as an Archer, use other abilities that bind it to keep it chain bound.

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While thats a good idea, its difficult to implement into action. Bind isnt always successful. And if bind does infact release on damage contact, the fact that your foe constantly closes in on you makes it difficult to not auto attack him while you try to constantly back up. If that's not enough, auto attack is being added to archers, so no matter at what range, you will be releasing bind. When solo, you may as well consider archers and mages close range dps, which is technically not their job description. They need abilities that MAKE them live up to their role, even when solo.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

While thats a good idea, its difficult to implement into action. Bind isnt always successful. And if bind does infact release on damage contact, the fact that your foe constantly closes in on you makes it difficult to not auto attack him while you try to constantly back up. If that's not enough, auto attack is being added to archers, so no matter at what range, you will be releasing bind. When solo, you may as well consider archers and mages close range dps, which is technically not their job description. They need abilities that MAKE them live up to their role, even when solo.

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You're assuming that you have no control over your auto-attacks at all. Close your skill bar. Run away instead of running backwards or (if it's implemented in such a way) toggle your auto-attack off.

And ANY class solo is going to be a close range encounter in most cases. You're the only one with hate, and most mobs are melee types. That's common sense.

Shadowbind and Close Shot are very effective in a combo when you first get them. Sure, Bind doesn't always stick, but it has a very respectable proc rate.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

You're assuming that you have no control over your auto-attacks at all. Close your skill bar. Run away instead of running backwards or (if it's implemented in such a way) toggle your auto-attack off.

And ANY class solo is going to be a close range encounter in most cases. You're the only one with hate, and most mobs are melee types. That's common sense.

Shadowbind and Close Shot are very effective in a combo when you first get them. Sure, Bind doesn't always stick, but it has a very respectable proc rate.

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Closing your skill bar and running back is completely redundant. Its a horrible tactic. When you close your skill bar you cant set up for the next attack unless you macro it (assuming game pad, and further keyboard keys). I've thought this through, and really even if most mobs are close range, you should be able to make them back off. Ranged/Magic characters are not meant to take large amounts of close ranged damage. Hell, in giving a fear spell it willhelp to make the game solo friendly.

Also, we dont know yet if were going to be getting a toggle feature, maybe the devs should "look into it"

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Closing your skill bar and running back is completely redundant. Its a horrible tactic. When you close your skill bar you cant set up for the next attack unless you macro it (assuming game pad, and further keyboard keys). I've thought this through, and really even if most mobs are close range, you should be able to make them back off. Ranged/Magic characters are not meant to take large amounts of close ranged damage. Hell, in giving a fear spell it willhelp to make the game solo friendly.

Also, we dont know yet if were going to be getting a toggle feature, maybe the devs should "look into it"

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1: your weapon shouldn't be out for any reason anymore as a mage.
2: You shouldn't be locked on to your target as a mage, ever.
3: This allows you to run in any direction, full speed, with your weapon out,
4: Bind your targets
5: Run away

All of this is getting changed in 2 patches anyway.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Closing your skill bar and running back is completely redundant. Its a horrible tactic. When you close your skill bar you cant set up for the next attack unless you macro it (assuming game pad, and further keyboard keys). I've thought this through, and really even if most mobs are close range, you should be able to make them back off. Ranged/Magic characters are not meant to take large amounts of close ranged damage. Hell, in giving a fear spell it willhelp to make the game solo friendly.

Also, we dont know yet if were going to be getting a toggle feature, maybe the devs should "look into it"

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If you're soloing, you have to accept the fact that you are going to be put into close range situations. If you're shooting at me with a bow, and you're the only target, I'm gonna get as close as I can and beat your face in. You can bind me and run away, but you better believe when bind wears off, I'm gonna repeat the process. Unless you keep me pinned with binding moves. That's just the mechanics behind soloing.

As far as closing your skill bar, if you want it bound, you aren't going to attack it anyways. Most people have their skills set to macro. If you don't, that's fine, face away from the mob. They aren't redundant, they are a means of keeping things like bind and sleep stuck on the target.

As far as a Fear spell goes, sure, but make it like Terror in XI where the mob is frozen in terror. Having it run off opens up another world of combat issues.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Well, this post just shows that you have no idea how to play.

/thread.

1: your weapon shouldn't be out for any reason anymore as a mage.
2: You shouldn't be locked on to your target as a mage, ever.
3: This allows you to run in any direction, full speed, with your weapon out,
4: Bind your targets
5: Run away
P.S. Please post evidence on "how long bind lasts" or quit making false claims.

All of this is getting changed in 2 patches anyway.

Who cares?

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Well Doc, this post just show that you havent been paying good attention to the conversation.

I know full well how to play my class.

I also know how mages work, i know you don't draw your weapon for whatever reason.
Not talking about mage binding, so what your talking about is hardly relevant to my statements above.

I was talking about being an archer, which is a different game because you cant fire arrows off without your weapon being drawn. so you cant run away at full speed.

On the subject of my my original post...
Mages will be getting a sleep skill which hopefully will be more useful than the current repose, but I question why are we the ones to be running away, instead of making our opponents afraid of us, most of the time when combating a foe our level we are at an advantage anyways.

You wanna know a logical flow of a combo?
Fear -> Bind -> damage while the foe is still at distance.
You know whats illogical?
Bind -> Try to run -> foe catches up -> bind was useless.

I looked at the class revisions and I'm hopeful for better tactics in them, but somethings are still missing.

Your kinda being rude when you state things like I dont know what I'm talking about, because truth be told YOU dont know if I know what I'm talking about.
Im submitting a good idea here but someone always has to be a jerk and try to counter it.

You know full well how to play a level 15 CON and 12 THM.

I won't argue that.

Don't you think you should play a little more before you go asking for new mechanics without first fully learning the current ones?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You know full well how to play a level 15 CON and 12 THM.

I won't argue that.

Don't you think you should play a little more before you go asking for new mechanics without first fully learning the current ones?

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I don't need experience to understand the obvious mechanics of a class. A little imagination gets you pretty far. I don't want to play to 50 and have the game change on me so I have to relearn mechanics. Just because I've played less than you doesnt mean I cant make a suggestion. You are acting alot like old people, you try to be conservative of the world you grew up with and shun the voice of those who seek possibilities of the future.

People who don't take the time to learn a system, before assuming they know whats best for it really urk me.

Both in FFXIV and real life.

I don't walk into businesses for the first time, ask to talk to the manager, and proceed to offer "suggestions" to them and get upset when the manager or people passing by disagree with my suggestions.

If you are offering suggestions, suck it up, people aren't always going to agree with you.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You know full well how to play a level 15 CON and 12 THM.

I won't argue that.

Don't you think you should play a little more before you go asking for new mechanics without first fully learning the current ones?

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I don't need experience to understand the obvious mechanics of a class. A little imagination gets you pretty far. I don't want to play to 50 and have the game change on me so I have to relearn mechanics. Just because I've played less than you doesnt mean I cant make a suggestion. You are acting alot like old people, you try to be conservative of the world you grew up with and shun the voice of those who seek possibilities of the future.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I don't need experience to understand the obvious mechanics of a class. A little imagination gets you pretty far. I don't want to play to 50 and have the game change on me so I have to relearn mechanics. Just because I've played less than you doesnt mean I cant make a suggestion. You are acting alot like old people, you try to be conservative of the world you grew up with and shun the voice of those who seek possibilities of the future.

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Double post?

^ sorry that posted twice on a mobile device.

I never wanted this to be an arguement, I made a suggestion and I'm defending my position on the subject, this is discourse and we are in a discourse community. I've been playing the game and I am welcome to make a contribution.

Fear has been an interesting mechanic in the games that I've played that have it. I wouldn't really be against the idea, though to be honest I don't see a reason for it. Sleep will work just fine, and when they remove the ranged attack from a lot of mobs, then Bind will work fine if they implement the spell again.

As an aside, I actually do pull out my weapon as a mage for only one reason: TP for Second Wind II/ Chameleon. I'll usually just run through one rotation of Spirit Dart » Nature's Fury » Elemental Shroud » Spirit Dart, since TP gains are set now based upon weapon and not damage, this nets me 1500 TP with my wand. I of course put it away once I finish with that rotation, but it's not as if I never draw it.

well and if you want to prevent your char from auto attacking just press ESC.. where is the point? so or so you have to deselect your target when running out of range.. so what. Tab again and enter and you're fine.


it seemed to me that fear was used way too often in other mmorpgs.. oh we have troubles? aeo fear and everything is fine for a moment. 10 mobs are linking? ah no problem spam AEO fear..
and the mobs run into other mobs and are adding other mobs.. well i hated fear..


although in AION for me as a summoner was a kickass spell, that maked it too easy for me to spam fear over and over onto the target while i made damage on him. in AION fear wasnt broken by damage. it was an "easy kill" skill.
fear is a trend skill nothing more to me.

and i dont like that skill for the black mages role as well, if you ask me personally.

Just as a side-note, there is a fear spell in the .dats called "Mass Fear" that was supposed to be a THM lvl 32 spell, and Mass Fear II at lvl 78. Maybe they planned on implementing them (along with Reraise, Tractor and many, many others...RIP) at some point...but after these class changes, who knows?

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/search.html?q=.Mass+Fear

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Originally Posted by Chrees

Just as a side-note, there is a fear spell in the .dats called "Mass Fear" that was supposed to be a THM lvl 32 spell, and Mass Fear II at lvl 78. Maybe they planned on implementing them (along with Reraise, Tractor and many, many others...RIP) at some point...but after these class changes, who knows?

http://ffxiv.zam.com/en/search.html?q=.Mass+Fear

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Interesting to note. In class revisions, this can actually still be implemented at higher levels. Although, I prefer a more final fantasy esque name than just 'fear', which is just the effect instilled.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

I don't need experience to understand the obvious mechanics of a class. A little imagination gets you pretty far. I don't want to play to 50 and have the game change on me so I have to relearn mechanics. Just because I've played less than you doesnt mean I cant make a suggestion. You are acting alot like old people, you try to be conservative of the world you grew up with and shun the voice of those who seek possibilities of the future.

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Sorry, but you obviously don't know the current battle mechanics. This video was posted on the forums during 1.18. Now, the only thing that's changed since then was the Multishot/Trifurcate nerf. This exact same battle could play out again today, it would just take longer. Your insistence that bind doesn't work properly is unfounded, though. . .

Monster behaviour that cause them to flee when overwhelmed by a player? Yes please.
Better usefulness to binding spells and abilities, yes please.

Players too lazy to chase fleeing targets and/or prepare for it, no thanks.