[Newbie] AST stat priority and Meld questions

My appologies for asking a generic question. I\\'m still extremely new to AST in terms of endgame. Just hit 235 Ilv and working on Sophia ex.

Questions:

* Does our stat priority change for each stance? It seems like Spellspeed is weaker in the absorb sect for example. Should I focus on det/crit if I enjoy noct more?

* With det seeming to scale poorly should I try to focus on gear that has Spell speed and Crit when avaliable?

* Is piety worth looking at? I\\'ve yet to do relivent content so i\\'m unsure if I will have mana issues.

* For melding I see some people go straight acc. Others throw in Vit or other side stats. Is there a certain number I should be aiming for?

* Are there any situations where I should be going noct? Or is it pretty much not used outside of niche fights?(somthing like a pray mechanic or huge tank buster).

Thank you!

/bow

Accuracy should be 592 if you're doing savage raids, otherwise your DPS will be garbage. Ignore Accuracy if you aren't doing Extreme/Savage.

Piety is good until you get to a point where you never run out of MP. It's also good if you accidentally die, since it'll scale your MPregen up and help you recover faster.

Determination is garbage, don't meld it. Critical Hit Rate is going to give the best returns overall on heals and DPS.

I'm not a fan of Spellspeed personally. Takes too much to have a relevant reduction in the GCD and it feels weird to have on a MP limited job, even though Astros have excellent MP.

I agree with Rennies with most of the stats.
Accuracy for Savage Raids
Get Piety to a good point
Crit. Hit is good (It is an RNG-based stat though, with a diminishing return the higher it gets)
Determination is meh (I think it's about 100 Det for around +15HP on 400 potency heals)

For where I differ:
With Spellspeed, I view it like Piety, get it to a point where you can cast comfortably (the HoT/DoT return isn't that amazing though)

As for Vit, Vit is only going to be useful in Savage Raiding and maybe new EX primals/Trials first come out. Once you are geared up, it isn't really needed unless you keep taking too much damage.

As for when you should be using Noct sect vs Diurnal, it really depends on the content and your other healer. If you have a SCH in the party, go Diurnal. With WHM, you can go either but Noct's shields complements it more. If it's double AST, you'll need to work it out with them.

I my opinion, Diurnal's +5% attack speed boost and place-and-leave HoT's (that can be extended) are better geared for a more offensive/off-healer play-style, while Noct's +10% healing boost and place when needed shields is better geared for a more defensive/main-healer style.

Personally I remain unimpressed by spell speed as a healer stat and get rid of it wherever possible. If you know the fights, you already know when and what you should be casting and are planning accordingly.

It may not be utter trash like it was before it helped with DoTs and HoTs, but even from a DPS perspective it's not as good for healers, who don't generally chain-cast nukes over extended periods and thus are less likely to get "extra" casts from additional spell speed.

I love SS. D: Better than Det at least. My only complaint is that Pets really need to benefit from it somehow, either as a weaker version of Det to Embrace or Embrace needs affected by the SS boost. (Whispering Dawn is affected, but embrace is not.)

SS is good for SCH DPS because we do actually have 4 Dots to be placing at one time (Shadowflare is a chunkier cast so it does benefit slightly as well.)

SpS is nice as a Scholar but the OP is an AST where its not as great. Crit still scales the best with the Astrologian, especially with the change to Benefic II's proc.

The other replies hit the nail on the head. Accuracy to cap, Piety till your comfortable with MP, then Crit. If you want to do savage, then add vit as well.

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Originally Posted by imadbros

SpS is nice as a Scholar but the OP is an AST where its not as great. Crit still scales the best with the Astrologian, especially with the change to Benefic II's proc.

The other replies hit the nail on the head. Accuracy to cap, Piety till your comfortable with MP, then Crit. If you want to do savage, then add vit as well.

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I was replying to Cynfael. I was essentially saying that SS is better than Det. Crit will always be king.

Get a comfortable amount of Piety for you and your team's play style. If you DPS a lot, you will need Piety to avoid running out of MP in long fights. For melds, your only choice is Accuracy if you want to damage-deal a lot in raids. Spell speed can be worth it if gives you more Malefic II's, but it is hard to say for sure in every situation. At the very least, speed benefits yours DoT and HoT spells.

Accuracy close to 593 > Piety > Crit >= Speed > Det imho for healing/dps.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I was replying to Cynfael. I was essentially saying that SS is better than Det. Crit will always be king.

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I respect your opinion, I just disagree because I see SpS as being useful only for DoTs and HoTs while DET at least affects the potency of all spells. ACC and CRT are my primary choices, the latter specifically for SCH and AST shielding.

P.S. Are we sure that Shadowflare benefits from SpS? Seems like it could go either way as a persistent area damage.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I respect your opinion, I just disagree because I see SpS as being useful only for DoTs and HoTs while DET at least affects the potency of all spells. ACC and CRT are my primary choices, the latter specifically for SCH and AST shielding.

P.S. Are we sure that Shadowflare benefits from SpS? Seems like it could go either way as a persistent area damage.

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I meant that it benefits in the same way that a Fire IV benefits: % reduced from a longer cast (3s vs 2.5) is going to be a larger amount of time saved. I don't really find myself waiting to cast something, even while having to precast. You just broil or ruin II up to the point that it's necessary to heal. O.O

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I meant that it benefits in the same way that a Fire IV benefits: % reduced from a longer cast (3s vs 2.5) is going to be a larger amount of time saved. I don't really find myself waiting to cast something, even while having to precast. You just broil or ruin II up to the point that it's necessary to heal. O.O

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Waiting to cast is a sin :P

What I meant is that you have to chain a lot of casts together to make additional spell speed result in additional casts. Because BLMs are designed to turret and cast nukes for as long as possible with efficient and minimal movement, this works for them.

Healers, on the other hand, rarely get to cast like this if they are actually needing to heal at all, and heals themselves are not chain-cast in this manner, so I don't perceive a significant DPS or healing benefit to stacking spell speed as a healer, which you would have to do to a large degree to see any noticeable (and debatable) benefit.

Here's a Reddit thread about AST stat testing in Diurnal: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/54f2hu/whm_and_diurnal_ast_healing_formulas_and_more

As others have said, for raid healing, go for 592 Acc. Crit gives you the biggest healing and DPS boost, and Spellspeed is slightly better than Determination in longer fights (explained here).

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Originally Posted by Taika

Here's a Reddit thread about AST stat testing in Diurnal: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/54f2hu/whm_and_diurnal_ast_healing_formulas_and_more

As others have said, for raid healing, go for 592 Acc. Crit gives you the biggest healing and DPS boost, and Spellspeed is slightly better than Determination in longer fights (explained here).

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It's a good read, but I don't quite agree with the "extra" GCD argument of SpS since the smallest delays such as swapping hard targets, repositioning to reach a displaced party member, needing to rez someone, etc. all erode those "extra" casts. This is why I think the data doesn't represent actual gameplay very well in this situation.

If I've missed something, I'd like to hear it, though.

Secondary stats are really ONLY good if you stack them. And even then, they still aren't great.

Determination is really the only stat you won't get much gain from. As for piety, spell speed, and crit, pick two and stack them. Piety you will actually see the most gain.

A good way to look at it is to meld what you wan't and need.

Needs will be accuracy & sometimes piety if you are having too much MP troubles.

The rest are optional. It's all on how you desire your char to have. Can't go wrong on DERT, SS, or Crit. Any will still get you through the end game raids.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I respect your opinion, I just disagree because I see SpS as being useful only for DoTs and HoTs while DET at least affects the potency of all spells. ACC and CRT are my primary choices, the latter specifically for SCH and AST shielding.

P.S. Are we sure that Shadowflare benefits from SpS? Seems like it could go either way as a persistent area damage.

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The stat weights for DPS on sch and whm are known thanks to dervy. And this is what most raiding healers will be looking for.. how to do the most dps.We aren't really concerned with how to get more healing potency... if we mess up healing it's usually more about mis-managing skills or getting behind on GCDs and timing.. not really about how much potency the heal has.

For dps-
Whm
WD: 9.128
INT: 1.000
DET: 0.159
CRT: 0.182
SS: 0.135
Acc: Cap it

Sch
WD: 9.128
INT: 1.000
DET: 0.190
CRT: 0.266
SS: 0.316 – 0.366
Acc: Cap it

Astrologian hasn't been done, but tbh it is probably similar. Healer stat priority for raiding is: Int > Acc to cap > Crit > SS > Det. I have never seen any raider meld piety. What is on the gear is typically more than enough. If OP is a casual player, melding piety may be viable... but I don't recommend it. If you OOM it is probably much more likely that you are misusing your skills. Especially on astro, thier MP regen buff was ridiculous. If the OP is never ever going to step into a raid, I'd recommend melding crit and SS. But if they are ever going to do EX primals or Savage, just go for acc cap.

If the change to SS has made that much of a difference to DoTs, then I'll stop griping when it comes with new gear since I play SCH more than WHM.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

If the change to SS has made that much of a difference to DoTs, then I'll stop griping when it comes with new gear since I play SCH more than WHM.

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Dervy's analysis for SCH stat weights is also from a purely DPS standpoint, and something like 100% up time in DPS. He also explains the theory why SpS has such a huge benefit to SCH DPS too. To quote his blog directly:

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Healer Weights are calculated PURELY for full time DPS. For science only; take these weights with a grain of salt. These weights do not take into account Mana consumption, or ANY form of healing/shielding. If you’re going to be hybrid healing/shielding, I’d recommend prioritising Crit over any of the other secondaries (with the exception of accuracy).

_____________________________________________________

White Mage DPS ONLY:

WD: 9.128
INT: 1.000
DET: 0.159
CRT: 0.182
SS: 0.135
Acc: Cap it

_____________________________________________________

Scholar DPS ONLY:

WD: 9.128
INT: 1.000
DET: 0.190
CRT: 0.266
SS: 0.316 – 0.366
Acc: Cap it

The reason why the Scholars SS weighting is high, is that roughly 51% of its overall DPS is coming from DoTs. So not only is SS buffing your DPS exponentially due to how it affects your GCD/Casts, but its value is being amplified by also increasing directly affecting 50% of your total PPS via DoTs.

Also, the weighting scholar DPS varies a lot depending on the rotation you use for some reason. It could be an error with my model somewhere handling clipped dots though. Letting your DoTs completely drop, rather than clipping them, boosts the SS weight by 0.5. This is something I’ll be looking into and trying to figure out and does look like it to be a DPS gain, over clipping them.

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I do appreciate that he makes the distinction between full DPS uptime and not. I can't say I would want to stack SS purposefully considering that real gameplay doesn't usually allow for long stretches of non-stop DPS totally uninterrupted by healing and shielding, but it's good to see the situational/hypothetical value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

I do appreciate that he makes the distinction between full DPS uptime and not. I can't say I would want to stack SS purposefully considering that real gameplay doesn't usually allow for long stretches of non-stop DPS totally uninterrupted by healing and shielding, but it's good to see the situational/hypothetical value.

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One thing to consider even on SCH when looking into high amounts of SS is that you will need to compensate with Piety to sustain MP. This means taking Piety over other secondary stats.

Stacking CRT I've been able to comfortably Raid with 12k MP @ 600-700 SS. Hitting 1k SS required a buffer of about 13.5k MP which is a loss of almost 200 Secondaries to Piety.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

One thing to consider even on SCH when looking into high amounts of SS is that you will need to compensate with Piety to sustain MP. This means taking Piety over other secondary stats.

Stacking CRT I've been able to comfortably Raid with 12k MP @ 600-700 SS. Hitting 1k SS required a buffer of about 13.5k MP which is a loss of almost 200 Secondaries to Piety.

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That MP number is actually pretty close to what I'm comfortable with on SCH. Around 680 Piety. SCH got a mana nerf with the introduction of broil.

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Originally Posted by Tiva

Int > Acc to cap > Crit > SS > Det. I have never seen any raider meld piety. What is on the gear is typically more than enough. If OP is a casual player, melding piety may be viable... but I don't recommend it. If you OOM it is probably much more likely that you are misusing your skills. Especially on astro, thier MP regen buff was ridiculous. .

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I'm going to assume int is a typo. Acc to cap then crit is right but i would take det over spell speed cause sps gains are lost immediately when you hold a cast to time it for a tank buster, or have to raise. Piety is viable for white mages that dps a lot. Your reasoning that it's only viable in casual content doesn't make sense cause how do you run oom in casual content? A dps'ing white mage can get by with proper cd management in long encounters but it can get tight depending on the instance and if there were any raises. As long as you have enough vit extra pie is good. Asts can just LA+Celestial.