best way to do a dream fulfilled, and est summoner build

just got to A Dream Fulfilled, and I see this is like alexandrites and materia all over again.
so I was wondering what the best method is to do this and what the best build for my summoner's weapon is?
I know crit and det where the focus for the zodiac relic.

You want your total spell speed to be around 850 without food. That's about the magic number for dreadwyrm trance right now.

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Originally Posted by Texa

You want your total spell speed to be around 850 without food. That's about the magic number for dreadwyrm trance right now.

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Totally not worth it at all, your crit and det would crash and is not worth the 1 extra ruin 3

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Originally Posted by Fjaere

Totally not worth it at all, your crit and det would crash and is not worth the 1 extra ruin 3

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What would you recommend for total stats then? That's what the OP needs to know and I'm always up for experimenting with melds and such to see what works better too.

I hate falling asleep after posts. spell speed? isn't that kinda hurtful for us summoners? we don't have an instant full mana regen ability like BMs do and our gear has no piety so we are stuck at our low mp.

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Originally Posted by Dargondarkfire

I hate falling asleep after posts. spell speed? isn't that kinda hurtful for us summoners? we don't have an instant full mana regen ability like BMs do and our gear has no piety so we are stuck at our low mp.

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Actually no. In 3.0 they updated spell speed for us SMN's(well spell and skill speed had an update for all!) Spell Speed now effects your DoTs (i.e. Miasma, Bio, etc.) as well. In reality SS no longer harms SMNs the way it did in 2.XX days. Personally I find Spell Speed quite useful as a SMN and strive for much bigger SS numbers then I did in 2.XX

In all actuality Determination sort of took a big back seat as a result of 3.0 though, it is still "useful" in it's weird way to obviously have, but you won't see world record shattering numbers from 1000 Determination.

As far as best way to do it, running level 50 and main scenario roulette will get you the poetics you need to get the mist and ink for sands. Greed all the dungeon loot you can as well to turn into GC seals and then moonstones. Use your allowances on leves to get amber (Just start the leve, search the area for a chest, and then abandon and retry to start again). Then grind out the lore tomestones in your preferred manner (More roulettes, spam Aetherochemical Research Facility...)

That's the way I did it, though I don't have high level gatherers/crafters to go for scrips, or tons of gil to go for crafting materials or primal drops. Those may be faster if you have the means.

If your GC peeps are high enough they can bring a sizeable number of Blue scripts per day with the right Chemistries. I'm getting ready to work on my MNK's relic now that DRK is caught up, but that umbrite step is going to be annoying as hell again.

SS and Crit > Det by far. You want to prioritize crit and add enough spellspeed for pulling off abilities without breaking the casting time and not having the spell go off, due to movement. Also, what was said about spellspeed affecting dots is true as well. Thing about summoner is a lot of their abilities are instant cast or 2.5 second casting time which means spell speed won't be as affective compared to crit where as a black mage is constantly using abilities at a 3 sec casting time when they don't have leylines up will want to prioritize spellspeed over crit.

Here's also updated stats guide for 3.4: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...2w&sh=50ac6419

spell speed effects dots?makes them last longer? or makes the dots hit more often?

I think it makes each tick hit harder.

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Originally Posted by Dargondarkfire

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Spell speed causes your DoT's to tick more overtime.

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Spell speed causes your DoT's to tick more overtime.

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This is wrong, Spell/Skillspeed increases the potency of the DoTs not the frequency.

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Snip.

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Oh really? whoops, sorry about that! :/

this makes... picking the relic build.. confusing.

Ariyalas is showing me weird stat weights with BiS solver right now. I'm gonna hold off before I do anything because ss doesn't affect fester, painflare, deathflare, ruin 3, and a few other spells. I'm also concerned with mana because excess ss in fcob was a bit of a mana problem. There's also a lot of targets in raids that aren't always worth dotting, So if the ss change is to soley bring more dot damage in and add 1 extra ruin 3 in your trance, its not really worth it imo. I'm usually top/second top dps in my raid right now so honestly wait for someone to address this in depth maybe. Ss may work better mathematically, but in practice and real play it may be different. Final note, prioritising spell speed gives you an extra 300-400 accuracy, complete waste. Also included a picture of the Ariyalas funky stat weight. http://tinyurl.com/zp4e3rw

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Originally Posted by PurgatorialFayt

Ariyalas is showing me weird stat weights with BiS solver right now. I'm gonna hold off before I do anything because ss doesn't affect fester, painflare, deathflare, ruin 3, and a few other spells. I'm also concerned with mana because excess ss in fcob was a bit of a mana problem. There's also a lot of targets in raids that aren't always worth dotting, So if the ss change is to soley bring more dot damage in and add 1 extra ruin 3 in your trance, its not really worth it imo. I'm usually top/second top dps in my raid right now so honestly wait for someone to address this in depth maybe. Ss may work better mathematically, but in practice and real play it may be different. Final note, prioritising spell speed gives you an extra 300-400 accuracy, complete waste. Also included a picture of the Ariyalas funky stat weight. http://tinyurl.com/zp4e3rw

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I take it that the higher weight is the better gear?

I wanna try re-doing my SS melds for Det then. Thank you for sharing that with us!

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Oh really? whoops, sorry about that! :/

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Anyone would actually be confused by that, I mean spell speed. You would THINK it would make your dots tick faster. It's SE though. XD

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Originally Posted by Texa

I wanna try re-doing my SS melds for Det then. Thank you for sharing that with us!

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WWDA

Thats the one im using if it helps, it maximises CRIT/DET as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Anyone would actually be confused by that, I mean spell speed. You would THINK it would make your dots tick faster. It's SE though. XD

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I'm not sure that they could have made DoTs tick down faster without a ton more code rewrite than they wanted to do. DoTs are basically buffs that tell the game to deduct the HP, and the game checks it every 3 seconds. That mechanic is why you do not really know exactly when within that 3 second window the HP gets deducted (especially if in combat with a party or a raid). Its not like other MMO's where the DoT is doing the damage and you get a report based on each DoT. It would have required a rewrite of the entire DoT system, going from a universal system to a DoT-specific system, for DoTs to tick down faster.

That said, if DoTs DID tick down faster, one of two things would have been the result : either the timer counted down faster as well, requiring more frequent DoT casts, OR the time between damage applications would have been reduced without affecting the timer, creating a potentially huge granularity in terms of how effective each point of SpS is. What I mean by that is, on a 18 second DoT, if you go from 3.0 second ticks to 2.9 second ticks, how many more ticks (damage applications) do you actually get? One? None? Assuming that the DoT will NOT do damage at 0 seconds remaining, on a 18 second DoT :
3.0 second ticks : Initial, 3.0, 6.0, 9.0, 12.0, 15.0
2.9 second ticks : Initial, 2.9, 5.8, 8.7, 11.6, 14.5, 17.4 (+1)
2.8 second ticks : Initial, 2.8, 5.6, 8.4, 11.2, 14.0, 16.8 (+0)
2.7 second ticks : Initial, 2.7, 5.4, 8.1, 10.8, 13.5, 16.2 (+0)
2.6 second ticks : Initial, 2.6, 5.2, 7.8, 10.4, 13.0, 15.6 (+0)
2.5 second ticks : Initial, 2.5, 5.0, 7.5, 10.0, 12.5, 15.0, 17.5 (+1)
2.4 second ticks : Initial, 2.4, 4.8, 7.2, 09.6, 12.0, 14.4, 16.8 (+0)
2.3 second ticks : Initial, 2.3, 4.6, 6.9, 09.2, 11.5, 13.8, 16.1 (+0)
2.2 second ticks : Initial, 2.2, 4.4, 6.6, 08.8, 11.0, 13.2, 15.4, 17.6 (+1)
2.1 second ticks : Initial, 2.1, 4.2, 6.3, 08.4, 10.5, 12.6, 14.7, 16.8 (+0)
2.0 second ticks : Initial, 2.0, 4.0, 6.0, 08.8, 10.0, 12.0, 14.0, 16.0 (+0)

As you can see from this, you have to greduce the time between damage applications quite a bit in order to derive any benefit from it at all. I know people would assume that you would go by your hasted GCD timer, but that assumption is only that, an assumption, and they could have put in whatever scale they wanted to. Indeed, they would have had to continually do a scale value reset, as gear levels rise and SpS amounts rise, though that is also an issue with nukes and not just DoTs. Going from a 3.0 second tick time (6 damage applications) to 2.9 gives you one more damage application (7 of them) but it then takes getting down to a 2.5 second timer before you get another damage application. Things do speed up the lower you can get the tick interval, but (making that same assumption regarding SpS) it is unlikely that we can achieve levels of SpS sufficient to provide more than a couple of damage ticks.

Having SpS act in a manner similar to Det on DoTs makes more sense, once you think about it.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Having SpS act in a manner similar to Det on DoTs makes more sense, once you think about it.

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You can also go the route of Blizzard and make DoTs tick faster during the duration, and any left over time is converted into a partial tick at the end of the dot. Example: 30 sec dot has 10 ticks, 3sec/tick. if your spellspeed lowers that amount to say 2.4 you'd end up with: 12.5 ticks. So from here you get 12 ticks at a rate 2.4sec/tick and you still get your half tick at the end of the dot. It sounds like a convoluted system but it's very simple in execution. The system they have in place still encourages refreshing dots (mainly because of others reasons like dot recalculating depending on how much time its got left [better explained on the wow forums]), but getting full dmg from refreshing before they expire is still key.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

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The main thing is that at the moment there is only one, global tick for all target-based DoT damage (a separate tick, if I recall correctly, for field effects like Flaming Arrow or Shadowflare). Whether true or not, I imagine SE would default to the assumption that having personal tick speeds would require more network resources, and that they'd therefore to make any such change that they couldn't create the same result for by merely messing with the coefficients instead.

@ZeratoTyrael
However, if one was to go the route of faster DoT ticks without reducing the duration of the debuff, that could be balanced either with or without the addition of a linearizing partial tick.

If a given DoT ends with .2 seconds left until its next tick because you can get 1.8 more personal ticks within its buff frame, the next application of that DoT will get that .6-second tick within its 1.8 tick accelerated frame, along with yet another, and you'll continue to get 2 bonus ticks per frame until that remainder is exhausted 3 applications later. However, it does require that one never fall behind on their globals in order to still apply it properly, and that the tick acceleration is an even multiple with the GCD acceleration (e.g. the global tick would have to default instead to GCD speed, while per-tick potencies are reduced by 20%; the .6s-tick would then actually be a .5s-tick, as 1.8 ticks acceleration would only be 4.5 seconds — or roughly 15% acceleration on a Bio II).

I'd personally prefer the partial tick just for ease of play — I feel like the sync would depend a bit too much on clipped/non-clipped oGCD weaves for optimal play — but I just wanted to point out that either is technically possible. (That level of difficulty, by the way, is already present at the time of reapplication for DoTs; due to the current global tick, our DoT contributions are already as granular as weaponskill rotational contributions.)

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Originally Posted by Fjaere

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/WWDA

Thats the one im using if it helps, it maximises CRIT/DET as much as possible.

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the alex grimoir has spell speed, crit, and det, but the crit is low?

I'm almost finished with this step (my 1st one), so I don't have any tips for completion different than what other people have stated, but I can tell you what I'm doing with the stats. Like you I was a little unsure how to place my points, so what I did was went and looked at the stats on the 260 Shire weapon, and have been placing my points to similarly reflect what is on that. My Crit will be the same as the shire (can't put any more on it), while Det and Skill Speed will be slightly better. I am not placing any into Acc since the shire has 0 on it.

Generally speaking, max out Crit, and then Det, and put the remaining points wherever you wish. There are a couple of exceptions (BLM and I think SMN are SpS then Crit, not sure on healers) but outside of those Crit/Det is the way to go.

BLM is Sps over Crit
SMN is Crit over Det
You might end up with some Det on BLM, and you'll probably get some Sps on SMN, they are semi-functional, but they are not the stats to prioritize
Crit/Det SMN will outrun Crit/Sps. A -5 ilevel Crit/Det book will perform equally, or better than a plus 5 Crit/Sps book. Had to test it for myself in SSS and various raids. Crit/Sps is more like a POTD build, lol

Basically, you'd be lowering your overall damage to fit in one more Ruin3, while your dots are the bulk of your damage, which is just silly

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Originally Posted by NolLacnala

BLM is Sps over Crit
SMN is Crit over Det
You might end up with some Det on BLM, and you'll probably get some Sps on SMN, they are semi-functional, but they are not the stats to prioritize
Crit/Det SMN will outrun Crit/Sps. A -5 ilevel Crit/Det book will perform equally, or better than a plus 5 Crit/Sps book. Had to test it for myself in SSS and various raids. Crit/Sps is more like a POTD build, lol

Basically, you'd be lowering your overall damage to fit in one more Ruin3, while your dots are the bulk of your damage, which is just silly

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Alright, now just have to figure out the best way of farming the powder and stones.