So I main PLD, my static is going to start progression on A12S this weekend and I am going to be switching to DRK due to the magical tank buster. The problem I'm having is no matter how hard I try or how perfect I do my DRK rotation I cannot get the SSS dummy below 5%. I clear it just fine on PLD, but I have been playing PLD since beta and am way more comfortable with it.
I'm pretty sure clearing the dummy is a mere formality and I will be able to run as DRK regardless, but I don't want to be the only member in my static that can't clear the dummy. One of the other members of my static has cleared the dummy on his DRK 6 ilevels lower than mine.
I have tried finding a good opener+rotation to use, the other members for his DRK doesn't seem to be working for me no matter how perfectly I am hitting it. Can anyone offer any suggestions? I appreciate the help in advance.
Problems with DRK - Advice needed please!
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11-17-2016, 03:30 PMJediFireflyProblems with DRK - Advice needed please!
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11-17-2016, 04:56 PMSarcatica
My suggestion is to stick with PLD. If you struggle with the tank busters, have your WAR tank more particularly on inception, but as long as your sch shields you beforehand it should still be doable. There are vids for references to have a good CD for every single Punishing Heat.
SSS is a poor indicator because of the 3mins limit and you need to understand the concept of pure damage output. You can do 1k dps and still clear in a12s, it does make it easier the more dps you can output though, mainly the last phase.
However if you feel you must clear the SSS part, you want to count how many casts you can get within that 3mins duration. For example, CnS is 60sec cd, you only get to use 3 times. As long as you reach that quota, you can pretty much delay it whenever you can. This makes DACnS combo at start not optimal because you are sitting at a lot of OGCDs that you want to use asap. Scourge should be applied first mainly because you want the full benefit of it ticking for the entire 6 casts for 3mins and you are alone anyway. See the maximum cast for OGCDs you can use and you play around those more, lastly DASE as often as possible. Just don't let your mana hit sub 300 or less or your Darkside will drop. -
11-17-2016, 11:43 PMshao32
1ยบ of all you dont need to be DRK t clear As12, so dont change to a job you are not confortable to clear that turn, but well if you still want to improve you skill as DRK sure.
-darkside up alwais.
-scourge alwais up on the target and shalted earth too.
-soul eater is you best dps combo with dark arts, delirium is the second without DA, switch betwen this 2 to manage you mana.
-use all you ofgdc, plunge, low blow, dark passenger and carve and spit+DA.
SSS is bad in the fact you never use grit on it, the dummy only check you dps rotation so is very poor in that way for tanks, and DRK is a job how dont have rotation at all, all depend of how much MP you have and find the way to get it to use more soul eaters with DA. -
11-18-2016, 02:20 AMBourne_Endeavor
I wouldn't worry too much about clearing the A12S dummy. Like others have said, it's a poor indicator for tanks in general because you'll have Grit on the majority of the fight. You also have to factor in Reprisal won't proc nor can you use Blood Price. Both are sizable DPS losses for Dark Knight, especially if you're closer to the minimum ilvl. As the MT, you're only concern should be aggro for prog. Worry about optimizing your DPS after you've gotten comfortable with the fight.
Way I would open: Plunge -> Dark Arts -> Scourge -> Carve & Spit -> Hard Slash -> Salted Earth -> Syphon Strike -> Delirium
This way, you're weaving ogcds in between GCD delays. It'll let you squeeze just a little bit more DPS. From there, transition into DA + Souleater combo and pop all ogcds as they come up. Make sure you're keeping Delirium and Scourge refreshed.
That all said, if you're more comfortable with Paladin. Stick with it. Although, Dark Knight may be optimal, Paladin can clear A12S without any hurdles. You'll only need to switch up a few mechanics-- specifically WAR needs to do the Time add. -
11-18-2016, 02:51 AMLyth
I would agree with some of the posts mentioned above, if your heart is set on playing PLD and you feel like you're being forced into switching. Of course, this can also be viewed an opportunity for you to learn DRK (which also happens to be the most entertaining job in the game), if you have the interest and drive. I ended up relearning PLD last tier after neglecting it for a while, during A7S, and it was great fun. If you're motivated enough you can pick these things up extremely quickly, when the need arises.
The best way to learn a new job is to sit down and figure out what the priority system is. There's no point in copying a "rotation" without understanding what the first principles are, especially when the job doesn't really have a rotation to begin with. DRK is less structured than PLD or WAR, and you'll have to make decisions on the fly. Most of the different openers follow naturally once you understand the underlying reasoning. Let's look at single target for an example.
GCD Abilities:
Scourge: 500
DASE Combo: 267/GCD
Delirium Combo: 227/GCD
Scourge is your most important GCD ability, and maximising its uptime is essential. If you refresh it too late, you lose DoT ticks at 40 potency each. If you consistently refresh it too soon, however, you lose GCDs that could have gone towards an additional Delirium combo. The catch is, however, that it interrupts your combo, so you have to make a decision at the end of every combo as to whether to refresh Scourge or try to fit in an additional combo first. In addition, you play at two GCD speeds: one with BW, and one without.
Check what your GCD length is on the tooltip of any weaponskill. Also, activate BW and then check what your GCD length changes to. This should let you estimate how many seconds it takes you to complete a combo both with and without BW active. Try a few practice runs where you just focus on reapplying Scourge as precisely as possible. One more point about Scourge: it has to be active for a minimum of 15 seconds for it to be unequivocally better than any hit of your Delirium combo. So if there's less than 15 seconds on the clock, or if you expect to complete the target dummy within the next 15 seconds, you can let it fall off rather than reapplying it.
The choice for DASE vs Delirium is fairly simple. If you are in danger of capping MP, burn off the excess in DASE. Otherwise, feel free to use Delirium. The MP can be expended at any time; there's no rush. Someone once compared DASE to a pressure-release valve. I think that's a fairly accurate description. Of course, as you approach the end of the dummy, feel free to burn off your excess MP. MP management is fairly simple once you are aware of this, especially in single target. It's probably the easiest part of the job.
oGCD Abilities:
Salted Earth: 525
DAC+S: 450
Plunge: 200
DP: 150
Low Blow: 100
Mercy Stroke: 200
I've left out reprisal for obvious reasons (i.e. target dummy). I'm also not going to go into DADP here, because I we're talking about single target, and the priorities are different with multiple targets up. It's worth noting that DADP costs one DA usage in exchange for 100 additional potency, which is less than the potency gain from DASE over Delirium (one DA for 120 potency). So you won't be using DADP in single target. DAC+S, however, gives you 350 additional potency in exchange for one DA usage, so you will be using it. Thankfully, most of the single target priorities are consistent with their actual potencies, even when you factor in their individual recasts (MS is the exception).
The only tricks here are that you have to fit in these oGCDs in as quickly as you can, in the correct order, but without delaying any GCD abilities to do so. Some can be double weaved easily, others cannot, especially with BW up. As you probably know, DA must be used on C+S every time it comes up, as soon as it comes up. You can activate DA earlier if you want in anticipation of either SE or C+S (it has a 10 second duration, and can even be activated pre-pull), but you must be careful not to accidentally apply DA to DP. Also, this is probably obvious, but BW must always be used when it comes up.
Main points:
1) Maximise Scourge uptime with as little DoT clipping as possible. Don't reapply if the mob is going to die/jump in the next 15 seconds.
2) Use BW on cooldown.
3) Use DAC+S on cooldown.
4) DASE is your MP bar's pressure release valve. Delirium is your go to combo.
5) Avoid clipping into your GCD when double weaving.
That's the basics. A lot of it comes down to being aware of what's coming off cooldown, and predicting how you're going to have to prioritise and slot them into the spaces between the next several GCDs. Practice until you can do it on autopilot. The target dummy should be fairly simple to do even without food or pots, at your gear level. If you're still stuck for some reason, see if you can record your attempt somehow and get some people to help troubleshoot it. -
11-18-2016, 09:35 PMGildarts
too lazy to post my openers but here is good ones for mt/ot
ot
http://ffxivrotations.com/t2
mt
http://ffxivrotations.com/1oi -
11-21-2016, 09:57 AMJim_BerryMay be an error, but you have Reprisal in there twice so soon as MT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
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11-21-2016, 12:34 PMInosaskaYou do not need a DRK to beat A12S. Here is a video of proof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RIRCw4FWTsQuote:
Originally Posted by JediFirefly
People need to stop trying to copy the world first clear group and start learning the game. If they want proof that a PLD was part of the clear group then show them this video. -
11-21-2016, 02:19 PMGildartsits not an error, you don't know when reprisal will trigger~Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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11-21-2016, 07:01 PMLyth
Reprisal has a 30 second recast. That's a minimum of 12 GCDs between uses (this will be a higher number in practice). You cannot use it if it's still on cooldown.
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11-22-2016, 04:12 AMGildartsnot sure if you trolling or having so hard understanding, who said you could use it twice.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
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11-22-2016, 04:17 AMSpookyGhost
To clarify, Gildarts means that those are the places where you would use Reprisal if it procs. So if it procs before Spinning Slash you use it then, if it doesn't proc there and procs after Spinning Slash you use it there. Hard to represent that visually on FFXIVRotations.
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11-22-2016, 04:35 AMGildarts^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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11-22-2016, 08:03 AMLythThe rotation that you posted shows reprisal used as two consecutive oGCDs without any explanation. There are multiple people who you have confused with your notation. As a follow up post, you suggested that "you don't know when reprisal will trigger," when it's clearly not going to trigger in the next 30 seconds. I would advise that if you're posting guide rotations, you should at least be amenable to feedback and criticism, especially when some of your oGCD decisions are less than ideal, at best. Nothing personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
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11-22-2016, 12:23 PMGildartsWhile I already stated it's not my rotation in first post yet I have to do it again zzzzzz, I have abit slight changes in MT rotationQuote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
seeing how you continue to post these funny posts
Any Mediocre DRK would have figured out at first glance;3 Nothing personal Ogcd master. -
11-22-2016, 03:53 PMMartin_Arcainess
So now that people mentioned what skills to use I'm gonna mention a few other things.
Are you using Grit? Did your friend use grit? If no Grit then you might be able to beat it then.
Also keep in mind DRK's DPS will vary due to damage in com, proc low blows and MP gained from Blood price.
Another thing is did you friend use food or a POT?
Also what weapon your using? Your friend may be 3iLV lower but if he has a better weapon then 3 iLV diff is nothing. -
11-22-2016, 06:55 PMLythWell, if you yourself are disavowing it, then I suppose there's nothing more to be said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
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11-22-2016, 07:14 PMGildartsi'm not ~ its personal preferences and so on, yet i already said its good rotation and one who came up with it one of best dark knights there, just because i change sequence doesn't mean its bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyth
https://www.twitch.tv/raxorsharp -
11-22-2016, 08:35 PMGalactimus
People are grossly over-estimating the difficulty of the fight if they are swapping PLD for DRK just because of "one more magical cool down." The Tank Busters are the easiest part; and PLD always has Hallowed, Sentinel, or Rampart for every single Punishing Heat (minus the one after the first Inception which I notify the healers in advance.)
I'd also add that Divine Veil saved us during progression far more than Dark Mind ever would. Shielding: Prey targets, people headed into Timegate, second Inception mechanics, and before Holy Bleed. -
11-23-2016, 01:36 AMCaedemSanguis
On pull without potion :
Dark arts
Salted earth
Unmend
Carve and split
Scourge
Hard Slash
Low bow
Spining slash
Dark arts
Soul eater
Plunge
On pull with potion :
Unmend
Scourge
Hard slash
Dark arts
Syphon strike
Potion
Soul eater
Salted earth
Hard slash
Plunge
Syphon strike
Dark arts
Soul eater
Low bow
Hard slash
Darks arts + carve and split
Syphon strike
Darks arts
Soul eater -
11-24-2016, 04:58 AMNivison
So a important aspect i didnt see mentioned was timing Blood weapon to get the max amount of DASE as possible. IE if i activate BW right before i use DASE i can get 3 total DASE hits in with BW ending right after the third DASE.
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11-24-2016, 10:13 AMSweetgrassYeah, it's not like DRK has an extremely useful magic mitigation skill, 2 relevant raid debuffs(Reprisal is so much better than Divine Veil that it's a joke), and better DPS as well, or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galactimus
PLD is objectively inferior to DRK in A12S, why would you bring it? This guy is clearly trying to meet the needs of his group, as a tank should. -
11-24-2016, 03:32 PMMahoSenshi
I think the point was like "don't burn yourself trying to meet group needs instead of playing class you're comfortable with".
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11-24-2016, 06:24 PMYeol
My advice to you is play both.
Since PLD and DRK fill the same role as 'Main Tanks'. The only difference will be PLD is better with physical damage while DRK is good with magical damage.
You already main PLD and just need practice with DRK.
It is what I did since I play physical ranged jobs (BRD/MCH). I will switch between them depending on the party composition and fight.
Was BRD main and only recently switched to MCH. -
11-25-2016, 02:16 AMMartin_ArcainessNot like thats important as BW doesn't increases damage just give you extra MP per hit. IF anything you want to time it with OGCD's to get the most MP back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivison
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11-28-2016, 06:20 AMIlanBW also increases your attackspeed so you could see that as a slight dps buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess
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11-28-2016, 08:15 AMMartin_ArcainessYeah it's a DPS increases regardless of how many SE you fit in. I'm more thinking of, don't think BW will increases the damage of SE only. You just speeding things up. If you see where I'm coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
He said the max amount out of DASE. If that was the case, I'd imagine I'd have to wait till my MP is 85% full or so then use BW for more DASE during it. Which is ok but timing it with CD's is better. -
11-28-2016, 07:23 PMIlanYes it just speeds you up. You are right there, i just wrote it that way just in case someone is reading in here and doesn't have any experience on DRK and gets it wrong (we all know these people exist.^^)Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess
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12-04-2016, 07:24 AMMoarLegionNeither of these are very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
MT: http://ffxivrotations.com/e2t
OT: http://ffxivrotations.com/e2t
Some general tips.
Scourge and Salted Earth: Always up and on cooldown, respectively and with few exceptions.
Plunge and Low Blow: Try and put these IN Blood Weapon, it's an extra DA-SE if you get both. If you have to hold them for a GCD or two to line it up with blood weapon, it's worth it.
Don't open with Plunge, it looks awesome and showy but its a DPS loss and most bosses you have to move from their starting position anyway. Also don't try to double weave Plunge, use it alone or it'll clip your GCD. -
12-04-2016, 10:17 AMJim_BerryWith the position it's placed in the rotation you listed, assuming you used it the first time, it will NOT be ready even when it's proc'd so soon after the Spinning Slash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
And to add:
You have Scourge > Dark Arts > Blood Weapon > Hard Slash. I personally don't like the Dark Arts > Blood Weapon. Because there's no attack in between the two other than an auto-attack.
I do Scourge > Dark Arts > Hard Slash > Blood Weapon...