This post might provoke flames, and I'm sorry for that, but after looking at the changes to THM including those with BLM, I am sorely disappointed. I knew that they had development for the Black Mage way back when and I was ok with that because of what I had seen of THM. THM seemed like more like a necromancer or a job that dealt with death (ie. scourge, shadowsear, banish) instead of one that dealt with the elements.
It was refreshing for me having come from FF11 with the FF11 black mage mentality.
With these changes, THM is effectively stripped of all of the basis it has been built on, and is now more akin to the CNJ and that storyline. After leveling this job to 50, loving it, and wanting more of it, I really do not want the feeling of THM to be taken away. I hated every moment leveling CNJ and I feel that THM is going to turn out the same way after the patch.
Please, keep the death-type mage mentality! Shadowsear, Scourge Banish type spells are amazing, and I would like to see more development along this route rather than having the concept cut off half way.
I may provoke some hostility here (as I am rather frustrated with this and obviously have a bias), but I'd like to keep this thread as close to a constructive criticism thread as possible. Thank you for reading.
[dev1206] Where in the world did my THM go?!
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11-19-2011, 03:20 PMYellowbluebus[dev1206] Where in the world did my THM go?!
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11-19-2011, 04:07 PMReinfeld
Agree. The elements don't really fit THM. I haven't done any of their class quests, but an "Elemental master" doesn't really fit with the Ul'Dah Main Scenarios rendition of the guild. I'm making an assumption here about how spell scaling and weaknesses will work, but It's going to be a pain having to get both THM and CON to 50 just to effectively hit different elemental weaknesses, whereas the current distribution let's both classes hit any monsters weakness.
-THM should keep Astral and Umbral elements, and maybe give them a third damage spell (non-elemental or something).
-Assuming weaknesses stay as they are, CNJ should keep their elements (but make them decide between preset skill sets like Ice/Water, Fire/Thunder, Earth/wind).
-Since CONs Ancient Magic is going bye-bye, BLM should take over the AM names. They would obviously have no resemblance to the pitiful versions currently in place. Using FFXI as an comparison point, Say a 50 CONs Fire spell has damage equivalent to a tier III spell, a 50 BLMs Flare could have tier IV or V damage as well as a larger or different aoe range. -
11-19-2011, 08:39 PMCoglin
I agree, the scourge/banish.......dark/light, style to them seemed great, and worked with the already in game story. BLM could potentially be the key to unlocking elements, but THM should have kept its previous DD spells.
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11-19-2011, 10:17 PMLienn
THM is gone. There is not even a slight aspect of the older THM on these action lists anymore.
They removed THM and split CNJ in 2 classes. It's like Bezepatrick said...i just want to see how the lore will be adjusted to this change. -
11-19-2011, 11:10 PMAtoli
Seriously, I can't stand THM anyways, but even I liked the old definition of THM better.
I rage because the elements have been taken away from my CON (to which they were way more fitting), but I tend to forget who they went to, and what THM lost because of that.
I didn't like those greedy guys taking money from the living to cast dark spells on them or the dead, but they certainly fit the lore, fit Ul'dah and the whole mentality of that place and their god.
But now they play with the elementals which lived in the wood..great..I'm still trying to see where this makes sense. -
11-20-2011, 02:11 AMThalesia
Well, i do believe they need to fix the names of the spell and the fluff behind them. Ligh / dark and Shadowseer should keep.
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11-20-2011, 12:39 PMCatapult
I could have handled it if they went the whole way and did it properly, but no. Thaumaturges are now masters of six elements despite being outside the domain of the elements and actually can only cast with 3 of them.
*sigh*
Of course it would have been cool if you kept the astral/umbral sense in THM and allowed BM traits to align those spells to an elemental affinity. Another wasted opportunity... -
11-21-2011, 05:27 AMJTSpender
Yeah, I'm honestly pretty disappointed too. I don't necessarily think the new classes are going to be bad, but... from a game design perspective, I think the original Thaumaturge was a fairly cool concept. The core drain & debuff mechanics were really cool, and I love that they made a functioning class out of a number of otherwise fairly underutilized and underappreciated spells from FFXI. I'm a little less psyched about playing yet-another-elementalist-mageytype. (One of the things I liked about conjurer is how they managed to make the elementalist feel a bit less like the standard mage trope.)
That said, as long as they keep THM from devolving into the FFXI Black Mage whose core mechanic is to cast mostly-identical damage spells for each element, I'll probably still play it. If you take away my disappointment about losing the old THM concept, I actually have a reasonably favorable impression of the action list they posted. Especially if they *don't* give THM native access to all elemental nukes. That would make me happy. I was just playing some of the older Final Fantasys recently (FFIII in particular) and was noticing how many cool spells Black Mages have that aren't elemental. It would be neat to see a class that focused more on that concept than on the FFXI one.
And hey, if they took out all the awesome THM debuff stuff because the next mage class they're going to release turns into Red Mage, then they have my complete and total forgiveness. (Though honestly, I'd rather see the debuffs moved a class that turns into Scholar, or maybe Geomancer, and RDM turned into an actual magical fencer with mechanics similar to FFXI's dancer.) -
11-21-2011, 05:34 AMgrandm
blackmage is a final fantasy icon, with an iconic move set, there should be no surprise it has elemental nukes and lost all the necro like moves. you ask where have they gone. i would guess a new DoM will get them
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11-21-2011, 09:03 AMCoglin
I agree, the tap/drain lines were great, and I liked the light/dark aspects of the nukes. Hopefully they will return in the form of another class.
There are over 100 games in the FF franchise, and many of them list the BLM class having most of the elemental abilities, but generally have some in th WHM as well. I don't think most posters were aware of that when they complained about making the 2 more traditional. -
11-21-2011, 01:09 PMKlive
I was thinking where will the drains and dark spells go, then it hit me. Arcanist! That is the next mage class to come out.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Arcanist
Just a wild guess, mostly, but it does fit. -
11-21-2011, 11:30 PMCorrderioMaybe, but since Yoshida was thiking of ACN as a trap type class, wouldn't bet on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Klive
I'll just wait til the update for the full list. IDAF what they do as long as nukes are actaully desired. -
11-23-2011, 12:09 AMUmoWhat "full list" are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
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11-23-2011, 12:45 AMsyntaxlies
hopefully thm will be a real nuker and the best DD with these changes so that they have a purpose. Blm's extreme power comes at the cost of low def and low hp and having to manage hate. All the factor are there except for the ability to out DD the melee class's.
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11-24-2011, 04:56 AMYellowbluebusQuote:
Originally Posted by JTSpender
Totally agree, good point :o!Quote:
Originally Posted by Klive
Aside from my disappointment of THM turning into BLM (and the story line contradictions that entails), it would be great if there was an alternate class (like the scout type class they talked about from GLA instead of unlocking PLD) like Archanist. It would particularly fit if they brought back the old Demi (which looks /strangely like shadowsear) back with this.
Of course I could also see the THM concepts made into a controller type RDM (the backliners we saw from XI) without the swordplay or nukes. This would make me happy as well.
Another interesting concept for another THM follow-up would be a Mystic (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mystic). It fits rather well, and a little bit better than Arcanist imo. ^^ -
11-24-2011, 06:30 AMLuxLex
I am so unhappy with the number of spells...
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11-30-2011, 12:24 AMMonsalvato
Add +1 to the list of disappointed people.
Elements make no sense to THM lore-wise, just like it's a very disappointing choice to see THM stripped of the astral/umbral spells and Sacrifice.
It is equally disappointing to see CNJ's elements be reduced from 6 to 2... how is any of this supposed to make sense?
They are just destroying lore to "adapt" it to the practical needs they have. That is: turning CNJ into WHM and THM into BLM, which once again makes no sense.
CNJ should have got access to both Jobs, and THM to something else. Yet they refused to consider this, and what we're seeing now is just the consequence of this bad original choice.
I'm really really really disappointed by the Disciple of Magic class reforms. There are no words, really, to express how disappointed it is.
I know this may feel unrelevant to most, but I feel this is when I get my chance to express a form of feedback to SE, if enough do the same maybe there's a slight chance a few things might be delayed/adjusted before they go live... -
11-30-2011, 01:44 AMsyntaxliesheres a vid to a gm arcanist that was in game buffing people for anyone interestedQuote:
Originally Posted by Corrderio
edit forgot to post link, lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h9pLB4CHpo