New to tanking

HI i have some questions. :)
I just finished the heavensward quest and I reached the end game part with wwhite mage but now id like to try out some new classes, so i unlocked the dark knight and now i am leveling it, currently level 51.

1. Even if my gear average level is slightly higher than the required level for the dungeon, i have the impression i'm either too weak on defense or the monsters are just too strong, even if i have grit always active.

2. I was doing some raids level 50, but sometimes the other tank says "swap" "switch" or "get it off me" and I dont really get what he really means, I mean i try to get the monster away from him but it only happens aafter 3-4 combos of my power slash or when the other tank is dead.

3. I don't really get how do you keep the mana points high most of the time, like i use the "get hit, get mana" as soon as it is aviable and also use the mana regeneration attack but im usually below 40% mana points X'(

4. I can't find the next class quests!! the last i did was the level 50 one where u go in coerthas, whitebrim and fight your clone then I somehow lost th etrack of the questline.

Pick up Gladiator at Ul'dah and level it to 22 for Provoke. You also may want to level Marauder to 26. The advantage to this is you get more cooldowns to cross class. For DRK, I use provoke and convalescence from Gladiator and bloodbath, foresight, and mercy stroke from Marauder.

When the other tank says Swap, he means for you to provoke it. The cross classed skill Provoke from Gladiator is the only skill that allows for an easy transfer and if you're doing any kind of high level tanking you need it. Provoke followed by unmend or a dark arts power slash should do it.

At 51 you don't yet have all the tools to help you easily regenerate mana. Yes, use Blood Price. You should also be using your syphon strike combo as much as possible when you don't need to secure a lead in hate over the dps.

Go back to Whitebrim. The level 50 DRK quest line starts with an npc there. After you've picked that up the next will be at the Forgotten Knight in Foundation.

I don't play Dark Knight, so I can't answer most of your questions, but I can answer #2.
When the other tank says those phrases, you need to get into your tank stance, Provoke, and enmity combo the shit out of it; your turn to get hit in the face.

You need to cross class provoke skill from lv 22 gladiator, that puts you on top of the enmity list of the target, thus "swapping" with the person tanking the target previously. This skill is absolutely necessary for high level tanking, so sadly you have to level your gladiator even if you're not the slightest bit interested in the class/job. (hopefully this kind of thing gets addressed in the next expansion though, considering the importance of provoke for tanks)

Don't forget that grit isn't your only defensive tool, you have other cd (cooldowns) that make you tankier, like shadow wall, dark mind, etc. Use these when you expect large incoming damage, like during pulls with a lot of mobs, or when the boss is about to use a heavy hitting attack (usually called tank buster). As for mp management I can't help you since I'm not familiar enough with DRK, just wait until someone else comes here and give you advices.

As others have said, provoke is absolutely mandatory from 22 gladiator. You will have it cross-classed 100% of the time if you're doing any high level content. Not telling people about this is one of the most viable complaints about how the game handles training new tanks and hopefully will be fixed in the expansion.

As a run down of provoke, a lot of people don't seem to understand it at first. Provoke takes the highest enmity level within the party and gives you that value +1. As such, tank "swaps" are a two part dance that needs to take place during a large variety of different fights. The first part (the Off tank who is about to become the Main tank) will usually preload their enmity combo. So (and this depends how comfortable you are with your Main tank), when you know a swap mechanic is coming, you will put yourself into Grit and prepare your combo up to Spinning Slash or Power Slash. Once the actual swap mechanic goes off, you will then provoke and hit the next stage of your combo. This gives you the equivalent of the Main tanks enmity +1 and then the follow up move of your enmity combo will secure hate on you.

The alternative of this is that the Main tank (about to become the Off tank) needs to stop building enmity after the off tank provokes. From your perspective you would probably want to turn Grit off (unless something is going to happen where you will need to tank again soon) and move into a Delirium or Syphon Strike combo so that you're not actively building lots of enmity and fighting the new MT for hate.

That's covers the most important aspect of your questions (you absolutely can't endgame tank without understanding provoke and swaps). Additionally, if you die in any content and the boss starts attacking healers or DPS, you will need to use provoke as soon as you're alive to get it off of them. If you die and the boss goes to the other tank, then you can typically just fall into line as the off tank and wait for a swap mechanic.

Also other cross classes that you may want to consider obtaining (you should be using 4 of them in addition to provoke): Foresight (MRD level 2), Bloodbath (MRD level 8), Convalescence (GLD level 10 - you will automatically get this on your path to Provoke), Mercy Stroke (MRD level 26), and Awareness (PLD level 34). I don't endgame as DRK but Bloodbath, Convalescence, Mercy Stroke and Awareness (or Foresight) appear to be the most worth while to me given what I know of DRK.

As for question 1: you need to get used to doing your tank CDs. Lots of new tanks tend to think that trash mobs shouldn't get mitigation tank cooldowns and that they need to save their tank cooldowns for the bosses. Unfortunately, this is usually backwards. No dungeon boss is really going to wreck your face but if you pull large packs of mobs, they absolutely can take you down rapidly. If you're a mass pulling a dungeon, most of your CDs will actually be used on trash packs. For major bosses, (savage, Alex normal, primals), you will usually save your cooldowns for times of heavy damage (tank busters) or if your healers get into a pinch and you need to ease some strain on them.

For Question 3: If you have dark side up, you can't regenerate MP so if you're using that non-stop, that might be the problem. Other than that:

MP Generators
Blood Weapon - Increases attack speed by 10% and converts physical damage dealt into MP. Duration: 15s. Cannot be used while under the effect of Grit. Affinity DRK
Blood Price - Restores partial MP when damage is taken. Duration: 15s
Sole Survivor - Marks target with the status Another Victim. If that target should be KO'd in battle, 20% of your maximum HP and MP will be restored. Duration: 15s
Carve and Spit - Delivers a threefold attack with a potency of 100. Also restores MP if used while not under the effect of Dark Arts. Dark Arts Potency: 450. Dark Arts fades upon execution.

That's pretty much what you have but you probably don't have access to all of them at 51. Additionally weaving in Syphon Strike will help. Better DRKs than myself can probably give more information on this.

As for Question 4: Looks like you need to find a knight in Coerthas south of Behemoth's Dominion. This should send you to your new job trainer in Ishgard. If you don't see it in your map (name of the quest is Wages of Mercy), then you may have already been sent to Ishgard to find Sidurgu. If you still cant' find it then you may have completed this quest without realizing it and a new one will be available from Sidurgu at level 52.

like the others say you need provoke from gladiator to have the mandatory skill for swaps, other skills like foresight from marauder and convalescence help a lot, bloodbath too.

so for tank swaps is use provoke and agro combo, better if you have you agro combo ready on spining slash/power slash to get insta agro and another agro combo to secure the boss/add.

terms of mitigation, depend of the situation but is alwais use dark dance when is ready and use reprisal to and meaby foresight or shadowskin, dark dance + dark arts are pretty usefull on trash mods bcs make you dodge attacks but dont use blood price with that, shadow wall is more use on raid bosses but you can use it too when you are tanking multiple adds, dark arts with soul eater on grit recover you damage dealt on HP plus souleater combo with dark arts is the most powerful combo of the DRK so you go to use more dark arts on that (remember this combo dont recover hp out of grit).

and for mp is more easy at lvl 60 by far so dont worry, plus carve and spit is a nice tool too can help you at the begining, when you get more use to the mana control you use carve at spit for more dps, use blood price and use all time you syphon strike combos (delirium combo when you want to save mp and soul eater with dark arts for more dps/self healing on grit), thats enough, dont use dark art if you feel you going very low and thats all, the other strat is turn off grit and use blood weapon to have extra mp but you are a new tank so dont go on that before lvl 60 and get more confortable with the job and the role in general.

i recomend you get the other tanks tools before go more deeply with the DRK.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

HI i have some questions. :)

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Welcome to the tank community, first and foremost! I will give you my opinion/answer to your questions in the order of your list.

1) This is just the passive challenge of the dungeon against your tank/healer efforts, try to view it as the thrill of the job. Higher ilevel gear and/or cooldowns, practiced sync with character movement to dodge AoEs, and often watching a youtube video of the dungeon/raid will lessen the impact of the challenge, and is much more noticeable if the entire party possesses these attributes.

2) The Gladiator level 22 skill "Provoke" is what the other tank was expecting you to use. Provoke is a skill which both DRK and WAR can cross-class and is considered by most to be the most essential tank cross-class skill to acquire. Level gladiator to 22, and acquire provoke. When you are asked to do a tank swap, simply use Provoke followed by your tank's enmity generation combo to perform the tank swap.

3) Ether potions can help, but part of the experience of mastering DRK is developing resource management for your MP. Don't use MP in a liberal manner if you are expecting to need it in the upcomming pull, or during an important phase of a battle. This comes with experience, and you will learn it just as everyone else has, fear not.

4) I'm not sure which quest you're on, but using google to search "Dark Knight Class Quests" yielded information for every quest for abilities.

to keep the mana high you have to use your mana combo a lot. try to use your aggro combo as few as possible. most of the time you need to use it only one time when you pull the boss and then you can use the mana combo till the end of the fight. keep an eye on the aggro bar (left in the party list). you don't have to be miles ahead. most of the time the DDs are on 50% or even 75%, but they won't keep up to you. of course this means when Grit is up ^^

without Grit you should use your aggro combo more often, but this is advanced gameplay...

on trashpulls i almost never use the aggro combo. just spamming aoes, mana shouldn't be a problem as long as blood price is up. after that i rotate with the mana combo through the enemys.

I just realized how my mp drained so much, it was because i kept using dark arts XD

now i am getting new gear from mor dona and will level up gladiator soon

I have another question: how doeas scourge work? I don't really get how these poison-type actions work at all o.o

A guildmate of mine always says to do unmend>scourge>powerSlashCombo>...>scourge>etc.. but i dont really get what happens if i use it or not use it XD

(1) For MP, u figured out DA is taking it away. But, some DRKs dont know to use the MP combo ONLY! At the start 1-3 powerslash combos is all u need, and then focus on MP for the rest of the fight.

(2) 2 forms of mitigation people forget to use effectively are you stun, and reprisal. Reprisal an enemy thats got a lot of HP still, so u get the full effect of it, and stun a mob who will live for 6 seconds, but is quickest to die. (so for example, I would start a fight stunning my primary target, and then reprisaling the 2nd target. When stun comes back up, it would either be placed on the 2nd mob (my new primary target) or the 3rd, if its about to die.)

(3) Dark Passeger with DA can act as a form of mitigation when you're out of mitigation, and so can abbysal drain (as it obviously heals you)

(4) If a mob is going to crit you, you can not parry it, so awareness stacked with Dark Dance will increase the number of times u crit.. (very low chance this happens though)

Also, if you dont know of this, but you cant evade/parry attacks if they are from the side/behind, so try to make sure all mobs are in front of you.

Lastly, think of Scourge as a poison. (IMO do it after ur threat combo, not before)

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Originally Posted by Mirch

I have another question: how doeas scourge work? I don't really get how these poison-type actions work at all o.o

A guildmate of mine always says to do unmend>scourge>powerSlashCombo>...>scourge>etc.. but i dont really get what happens if i use it or not use it XD

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Scourge is, straight up, extra damage. These "poison" skills (referred to as DoT for Damage over Time) tend to be THE most damaging attacks in a player's arsenal as far as damage per action/MP/TP.

First off, only use it if the DoT will last the full duration. So, not when the foe is at 1% or so.

Secondly, take the duration of the DoT and divide it by 3. This is because DoTs deal damage every 3 seconds. With enhanced Scourge, this turns out to be 10 "ticks" (Term for when an over time effect does something)

Finally, multiply the number of ticks by the potency of the effect, in this case 40. So, you wind up with a 400 potency attack for a mere 60 TP and no combo required.

That said, Scourge doesn't get an enmity multiplier to it, so only start using it after you've cemented hate. Also, while using it on an enemy that already has the effect up is worthless, you CAN spread it around to multiple targets to keep doing a 400 potency attack round after round. Though, once you get to 4 or more enemies it starts becoming better to just spam Unleash.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

2. I was doing some raids level 50, but sometimes the other tank says "swap" "switch" or "get it off me" and I dont really get what he really means, I mean i try to get the monster away from him but it only happens aafter 3-4 combos of my power slash or when the other tank is dead.

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You need to level gladiator to get Provoke as a cross class skill. It's pretty much mandatory for endgame content.

Thanks for the answers! I kind of start to get the tanking world!

I has another question:
When I use white mage I used gears with just critical hit rate and determination sub stats, then melded these 2 if possible, else spellspeed, then i was told to meld vitality on accessorizes. As a tank, which sub stats should i focus on and what should i meld, like now ive got pretty much everything balanced, i'd like to know how to "build" my tank (dark knight) because leveling it is reaaaally fast!!

the stats are Critical Hit > Determination > Skillspeed > Parry

Crit and Det are the only really good ones. Skillspeed has it's uses, but you will drain your TP faster and it doesn't affect your magical attacks (Unmend, Unleash, Abyssal Drain).
Parry is completely lackluster. It has a low scaling (getting tons of parry doesn't affect the actual parry chance noticeable), it is random (but you need to mitigate, so you have to use def-cooldowns anyway) and you can only parry physical attacks (so it is useless against magic attacks). parry is also useless as Off-Tank, because to get a use out of parry you have to getting hit. so Parry is the worst stat, you should avoid it.

as a tank you also want to meld Strengh into your accessorys. because tank accessorys only have Vitality, but your damage scales from Vitality and Strengh (you can't overmeld main-stats, so you have to put the Strengh materia into the first safe-slot).

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Originally Posted by Tint

the stats are Critical Hit > Determination > Skillspeed > Parry

Crit and Det are the only really good ones. Skillspeed has it's uses, but you will drain your TP faster and it doesn't affect your magical attacks (Unmend, Unleash, Abyssal Drain).
Parry is completely lackluster. It has a low scaling (getting tons of parry doesn't affect the actual parry chance noticeable), it is random (but you need to mitigate, so you have to use def-cooldowns anyway) and you can only parry physical attacks (so it is useless against magic attacks). parry is also useless as Off-Tank, because to get a use out of parry you have to getting hit. so Parry is the worst stat, you should avoid it.

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Everything said here is pretty much it for Materia, though I wanted to clarify a few things as well.
For DRK, parry is pretty much slightly better than not, IF you are MT, because of reprisal. (Im almost always MT in my raid groups, so its better for me than when I join pugs, where its pretty 50-50 if Im MT or OT. Plus a lot fo content atm is physical heavy atm, and i needed some parry procs until my gear got better.)

Speed stat is in tiers of 60. The tooltip says your GCD is lowered, but tests have show only once you reach 60 speed will your GCD decrease by 1%
I forget how much crit/det you need for a 1% DPS increase, but it is also in larger amounts. (But Crit effects 2 important things, which is what gives it an edge over the other stats)

So, the only time you want Skill Speed over Parry, is if you've hit the current tier of 60 speed, and arent even close to another tier of 60.

(In case you're not sure, take your speed stat and divide by 60)
If you are a few points away from a new tier, put points into speed, if you're too far away, make ur last 1-2 materias parry.

This becomes pointless once u upgrade to new gear, as your speed stat will change.

So most people who arnt worried about perfect stats, will just slap it into speed, since they know their gear is going to change quickly.

EDIT: I should have mentioned speed also effects your DoTs dmg.
Which is another reason its ok to go over 60, as a DPS increase, how ever small, is still a DPS increase.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

EDIT: I should have mentioned speed also effects your DoTs dmg.
Which is another reason its ok to go over 60, as a DPS increase, how ever small, is still a DPS increase.

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i am curious if Salted Earth's damage is affected by Skillspeed. Since magical attacks are affected by Spellspeed, not Skillspeed, it should not?