Blaming ISP might be presumptuous

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10-28-2016, 10:17 PM
Anathaer

Blaming ISP might be presumptuous

I log into NA servers from Europe. And my ISP (Telfort) does not have a counterpart in North America, I checked. And I am also experiencing difficulties. So to blame NA ISPs might be a bit presumptuous. Just telling this so you know this and can add it into the investigation. Considering the Lodestone:

"Based on our investigations, there is a high likelihood that these issues are occurring at the North American upstream Internet Service Providers, which is affecting the internet pathways and resulting in abnormal connections."

But I log into NA from The Netherlands with a Dutch (or at most European) ISP so it can't be the ISPs of NA only, there has to be something with the server as well. Hope this gets solved quick as people pay to play and many are now being kicked offline if they can log in at all.
10-28-2016, 10:23 PM
Pinkk

I've been using a VPN using a Canadian site and have no issues. It might not even be your ISP or SE, do a trace route to see if you're hitting level3 thats where the problems lies is the route through level3s infrastructure. You're ISP might be routing traffic to SE's servers using level 3. Open a command prompt and type 'tracert 199.91.189.24' and see if you see something like this:

Tracing route to 199.91.189.24 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 <1 ms <1 ms 1 ms TARDISNATION [192.168.1.1]
2 11 ms 9 ms 8 ms 10.252.208.1
3 9 ms 9 ms 12 ms dtr02davlvt-tge-0-0-0-0.davl.vt.charter.com [96.34.84.220]
4 20 ms 20 ms 25 ms 96-34-86-208.static.unas.ma.charter.com [96.34.86.208]
5 27 ms 23 ms 26 ms bbr01oxfrma-bue-2.oxfr.ma.charter.com [96.34.2.14]
6 20 ms 20 ms 25 ms ae-57.bar2.Boston1.Level3.net [4.53.56.53]
7 84 ms 69 ms 109 ms ae-10-10.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net [4.69.153.86]
8 32 ms 31 ms 35 ms ORMUCO-COMM.car2.Montreal2.Level3.net [4.59.178.74]
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 32 ms 31 ms 32 ms 192.34.76.2
11 * 34 ms 31 ms 199.91.189.234
12 32 ms 31 ms 32 ms 199.91.189.24
10-28-2016, 10:24 PM
worldofneil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

But I log into NA from The Netherlands with a Dutch (or at most European) ISP so it can't be the ISPs of NA only

Your ISP still has to route to North America before you then get to the SE servers and if that then takes you through Level 3, you'd be having he same problems.

You'd need to do a traceroute to check and that'll straight away show if you are going via Level 3.

Siren's IP address is apparently 199.91.189.29 so that's what you want to put in for your destination when checking, but any server/IP in that datacentre will be the same.

Edit: I'm too slow, Pinkk beat me to it :)
10-28-2016, 10:34 PM
ReplicaX

Their definition of "NA Upstream ISPs" and "Internet pathways" are simply:

Your ISP that has to connect through other providers to get to a destination, in this case the SE NA Datacenters in Toronto.

Even if you are from Europe, to get to a NA Datacenter requires going through multiple networks owned by other companies. So North American providers are involved with your connection to the NA Datacenters. Your ISP doesn't own a line going all the way from Europe to Toronto.

Every company is vulnerable to DDoS attacks, as well as hardware and software failures.

The biggest issue on the forum is that the Internet is not simple.

There is a reason why the World has Network Engineers and Line Techs. Providers have Redundancy systems in-place, however that still isn't a 100% fail-safe.

In the end, it is just easier for ppl to point the blame on one Company than understand the complexity that is the Internet.
10-28-2016, 10:36 PM
Anathaer

Ah no I seem okay now but meant as an add to the investigation, I am also getting kicked off regurarly. Don't even dare to start a dungeon right now. And my ISP is Dutch. But since you added it, I did check to show it lol:

http://i.imgur.com/mBfHUyo.png
10-28-2016, 10:38 PM
ReplicaX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

Ah no I seem okay now but meant as an add to the investigation, I am also getting kicked off regurarly. Don't even dare to start a dungeon right now. And my ISP is Dutch. But since you added it, I did check to show it lol:

http://i.imgur.com/mBfHUyo.png

It is also showing that you are going through Cogentco North American networks to get to the NA Datacenter.
10-28-2016, 10:39 PM
Anathaer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Their definition of "NA Upstream ISPs" and "Internet pathways" are simply:

Your ISP that has to connect through other providers to get to a destination, in this case the SE NA Datacenters in Toronto.

Even if you are from Europe, to get to a NA Datacenter requires going through multiple networks owned by other companies. So North American providers are involved with your connection to the NA Datacenters. Your ISP doesn't own a line going all the way from Europe to Toronto.

Every company is vulnerable to DDoS attacks, as well as hardware and software failures.

The biggest issue on the forum is that the Internet is not simple.

There is a reason why the World has Network Engineers and Line Techs. Providers have Redundancy systems in-place, however that still isn't a 100% fail-safe.

In the end, it is just easier for ppl to point the blame on one Company than understand the complexity that is the Internet.

Did I ever blame the company? Did I ever say I can't get on FIX IT! ? Where did I claim that it should be 100% fail save or even presume that it's solely SE to blame? There is also something like jumping the gun, assuming I am one of those many whining on forum they have to fix it cause it's their job etcetera. I just added my piece of information to help the investigation.

If this was not your attempt I apologize, but just realize that this is how I received it based on your message.
10-28-2016, 10:40 PM
Anathaer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplicaX

It is also showing that you are going through Cogentco North American networks to get to the NA Datacenter.

I assume Cogentco (wow what a name o-o) is a place in NA Or a ISP name?? Hm, well I admit I didn't think about the receiving end. It's true I have to connect to the server in NA through NA lines. My bad on that one, yet I hope that my information at least helps a bit! Who knows.
10-28-2016, 10:54 PM
ReplicaX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

Did I ever blame the company? Did I ever say I can't get on FIX IT! ? Where did I claim that it should be 100% fail save or even presume that it's solely SE to blame? There is also something like jumping the gun, assuming I am one of those many whining on forum they have to fix it cause it's their job etcetera. I just added my piece of information to help the investigation.

If this was not your attempt I apologize, but just realize that this is how I received it based on your message.

Wasn't my attempt at all. There are ton of network threads when this happens and it was a general statement.
10-28-2016, 10:56 PM
Anathaer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Wasn't my attempt at all. There are ton of network threads when this happens and it was a general statement.

That is why I checked. Yes I also defended myself but also checked. Cause I know text can be difficult to attach meanings or emotions to. And not realizing that causes the most senseless fighting o.0
10-28-2016, 11:04 PM
ReplicaX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

I assume Cogentco (wow what a name o-o) is a place in NA Or a ISP name?? Hm, well I admit I didn't think about the receiving end. It's true I have to connect to the server in NA through NA lines. My bad on that one, yet I hope that my information at least helps a bit! Who knows.

Yes, Cogentco is a Tier 1 Provider which owns Backbones throughout North America and some in Europe and Asia as well.

Here is a map that can give you an idea of the major backbones they have.
http://www.cogentco.com/files/images...obal_large.jpg
10-28-2016, 11:08 PM
ReplicaX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

That is why I checked. Yes I also defended myself but also checked. Cause I know text can be difficult to attach meanings or emotions to. And not realizing that causes the most senseless fighting o.0

Aye, no harm done and no intent for harm.
10-28-2016, 11:15 PM
Anathaer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Yes, Cogentco is a Tier 1 Provider which owns Backbones throughout North America and some in Europe and Asia as well.

Here is a map that can give you an idea of the major backbones they have.
http://www.cogentco.com/files/images...obal_large.jpg

So they might well provide my brother with internet by the looks of it lol. Well I still hope they solve it quickly. For me it is not a huge disaster, thoug I love FFXIV. But I also have Archeage, Second Life and other MMOs I can go back to if FFXIV ever is fully down again for a bit. Given: FFXIV is my favorite.
10-28-2016, 11:24 PM
ReplicaX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anathaer

So they might well provide my brother with internet by the looks of it lol. Well I still hope they solve it quickly. For me it is not a huge disaster, thoug I love FFXIV. But I also have Archeage, Second Life and other MMOs I can go back to if FFXIV ever is fully down again for a bit. Given: FFXIV is my favorite.

Seems they cover a lot of European ISPs connections into NA.
10-28-2016, 11:59 PM
Anathaer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Seems they cover a lot of European ISPs connections into NA.

They probably earn a lot then x3 Internet is still a golden business. :)