I'm posting this thread because I'd like to point out an issue. This is going to seem like a flame but please don't get alarmed when I bring up schools of thought.
We have all seen that there is a division between posters on this forum. Have you ever stopped to think about why? Why are we here? Some of us are Final Fantasy fans, some are MMO fans, some are FFXI fans, we all are gamers.
I'm sure it is pretty obvious that there is a group here that is very passionate about FFXI. In the discussion of FFXIV I see FFXI brought up a lot. According to the first players' poll about 20% of FFXIV players played FFXI. Some portion of them spent so much time with FFXI that they don't like where FFXIV is heading. Even though there's only a few hundred of you here boosting topics up like "About jumping" I want to pose some serious questions to your school of thought.
I couldn't find any numbers on the market size for players in the MMO genre but I did find a financial figure.
http://www.mobitrends.com/2010/12/06/2010-mmo-market-size/
The MMO market is a 6 billion dollar a year market. According to Activision Blizzard's financial statement, World of Warcraft is an approximately 1.2 Billion dollar a year game.
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm
At FFXI's peak of 500,000 subscribers it was approximately an 80 million dollar game. And now it's probably 1/5th of that or less.
FFXIV sold 600,000 copies at its release. This would have made it more successful than FFXI, but FFXIV never charged subscription fees. On top of that, the game population dropped 97% to under 30,000 players in November. Those are the loyal fans who would stick it out to the bitter end. At this point some of those 30,000 are the players that spent a lot of time with FFXI, who are posting in threads to influence FFXIV's course.
Now the question I want to ask is, how valuable is your opinion to influencing how big of a game FFXIV can be? If you make suggestions based on what you are comfortable with and like, are you going to be playing an 80 million dollar a year game?
What about the absent players? There are 4.8 billion dollars a year worth of absent players.. what kind of game would they play? I see it as my duty to use my loyalty to influence FFXIV to be the best game it can be. So that even more people can enjoy its beauty and adventure.
The absent players
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03-14-2011, 07:23 AMNeptuneThe absent players
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03-14-2011, 07:34 AMMega
I played XI at NA launch till the expansion following CoP and to tell you the truth OP I don't have a clue what I want. I don't like to make extreme suggestions like the ability to JUMP. But little features that I know work and improve the game like map markers and linkshell event messages I will be vocal on. I'm a gamer, I want to consume content. I don't want to design the game for SE. I would rather them have vision for where this game is going.
off topic: is my sig too big? xD
EDIT: shrunk it down more. sowwies~ -
03-14-2011, 07:38 AMKilta_Firelotus
I would like as much additions and content of varying levels added. And be as user friendly as it can be. I just want this to be a fun game, where everyone has fun. I want ppl to have so much fun they don't get too serious when end game is put in.
I'm all for anything, as long as it fits ffxiv's lore and gets ppl to talk more on how good and better the game is getting, so a ps3 launch is soon. I saw some of mithratales's videos along with others And I really can't wait to play. I wish i knew what the 2 prong compant looked like so I can try to see how ffxiv runs on my pc. My pc played Aion pretty decently. -
03-14-2011, 07:38 AMCeeKayJust a tad~Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega
I also agree with you on a lot of things you said.
I want to consume as much content as I can and play the game to its full potential.
The little things are a must, most of what you mentioned.
Like map markers and better linkshell options.
Of course the all-mighty search feature for players.
All this defiantly needs to be improved and I'm sure its pretty high up on the list for things to get fixed. -
03-14-2011, 07:41 AMviion
I think I want the same as everyone else: Something to do.
Anywho 97% loss on 600k is 18k. By 600 > 30k would be 5% remaining. But also remember every custom edition came with a buddy key so 1 custom edition = 2 games which could = 2 players on 1 sale. So if say 250k of it was Custom Edition, thats 500'000 Keys and 500'000 possible players + the other 350 from Standard.
So to sum up you cant really use statistics for XIV haha.
I think FFXIVPro has 250k Members? Tho a lot could of quit and that doesnt exactly = currnet players. A lot could be deleted. -
03-14-2011, 07:49 AMSkeeterI said in another thread if SE doesn't target MMO players and not just FFXI and old school FFers the game isn't going to make it.Quote:
Now the question I want to ask is, how valuable is your opinion to influencing how big of a game FFXIV can be? If you make suggestions based on what you are comfortable with and like, are you going to be playing an 80 million dollar a year game?
What about the absent players? There are 4.8 billion dollars a year worth of absent players.. what kind of game would they play? I see it as my duty to use my loyalty to influence FFXIV to be the best game it can be. So that even more people can enjoy its beauty and adventure.
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03-14-2011, 07:55 AMMega
Problem is they missed the target for both parties.
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03-14-2011, 08:00 AMgifthorse
I have absolutely no idea what changes would be necessary to draw a large crowd. Many people play WoW, but probably just as many people hate what WoW stands for.
I believe the upcoming games TERA, GW2, and ArcheAge will threaten WoW's dominance on the market, and all three of those games offer something completely different to attract customers. None of them are resting on the laurels of the typical MMO mechanic. -
03-14-2011, 08:07 AMChezenI guess this is pretty much how I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
I like the game. I didn't have the trouble some did about figuring out what to do, battle system, and UI and all that, although I'm not against the steps they've taken to make things easier. My complaints were not being able to find anything in the markets (which is fixed) and having stuff to do. I love to quest, but being limited in the quests is a little frustrating. I hope they continue to add all kinds of different side quests and stories.
My main reason for playing FF games has always been story, not game mechanics. -
03-14-2011, 08:09 AMNephera
I try to keep a broader audience in mind when making suggestions.
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03-14-2011, 08:17 AMNefarioCall
It has been my understanding from reading many forums on this game, that 'most' of those who purchased the game are simply waiting for it to 'not suck'. I think on this note, it is critical that the game remain free for the time being. A select few will have uninstalled the game, thrown it away and vowed never to come back, but the vast majority are willing to come back. Since the game is free, none of them need to think about paying a monthly fee for a game they don't want to play yet or pay to try it again.
Also, i think it is expected that the PS3 launch will add a tremendous number of player to the user base.
I think for the time being, the status quo of users who remain in the game will mostly stay because they have to this point. Those that take a break will come back for sure when more development furthers.
Also, the power of critical acclaim to the PS3 launch product will be very key to the fan base on both sides.
A vast number of MMO players want a gratifying solo experience, and in my opinion a 'Jump Feature'. Laugh if you want, but i strongly suspect the 'Jump Feature' is the most under-rated, unrealized, and simple tool to attracting mass audience, provided the game product backs it up.
Thankfully, SE is a big company, and they do not need people to flock to this game right now, but they will want that to happen. I am fairly certain it will, but not until the PS3 release. It will happen very quickly right about then if the game is in proper condition, and the reviews favorable enough. -
03-14-2011, 08:38 AMLaughlynI am 1 member with 5 characters... im sure other players have more than one character aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
I'd take those numbers very...Very lightly.
Dont even ask why i have 5 characters... besides i share account with my husband... and he barely plays his lalafell.
um... i believe we are past the "suck" part... Beta was Beyond suck, release was... not very good (but better than suck), and now, weee it's getting hell of alot better. Just missing the ppl that gave up too soon.Quote:
It has been my understanding from reading many forums on this game, that 'most' of those who purchased the game are simply waiting for it to 'not suck'.
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03-14-2011, 08:44 AMPunxsutawney
No, nothing we can say on a forum will influence how well this game will do. All we can do is give accurate information to players that are interested in the game. I myself, asked around on Eorzeapedia and got some good responses and decided to give the game a try. And after all the bad mouthing the game recieved, you know, it actually isn't that bad. It has its moments and I believe as SE keeps tweeking and fine-tuning, and adding more and more things to do, this game will see it's day in the sun.
And P.S. don't read too much into WoW subscription and revenue #, they like to glorify things. They have a store, which directly influences their hardcore gamers to blow up revenues and their subscription # are totally off whack, because even if you played WoW for 3 1/2 week in april of 2008, you still count to their current subscriber #s.
FF14 will be fine, if they continue to make the game better and more enjoyable, people will continue to play and they will add subscribers. The fate of this game, and it always has, rests on how far SE is willing to take it. -
03-14-2011, 11:34 AMNeptuneI played FFXI too, on and off. I had fun in it. I liked your big signature!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega
Actually it sold more than 600,000. It was somewhere between 600-650k.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
That's some bad reasoning viion. The numbers tell a lot. They sold over 600k games and that is not a figure for subscribers, accounts, or characters so it doesn't have anything to do with buddy passes. You should be smarter than that!
Thanks, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeeter
I have faith in them but I don't have faith in one of those parties you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega
Here is a true saint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
Actually, the game is far below par right now. It still takes over 4 seconds for the UI to load between actions sometimes. That is unacceptable. And that's just one thing out of many. Read "not suck" as "par".Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughlyn
Actually, well, how bout I just quote Yoshi-P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxsutawney
"Get on the forums and tell us. In the end, the dev team makes the decision on what to do, but the stronger the voices are from the public, they'll move a topic up on our priority list."
http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=25503
The forums are being taken seriously. So that's why I asked "How valuable is your opinion toward making FFXIV a big game?"
What did you mean 2 prong compant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
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03-14-2011, 11:46 AMJakeRoon
OP: the undertone of your post I interpret as a very tactful way of saying the following: (don't worry I have no tact)
"Do we need to help make FFXIV a modern mmo, not a ffxi clone; so the larger more main stream mmo players will come play it? That way it can be successful for us to enjoy for a long time?
{if I am wrong just call me a bad word and I'll re-read it lol}
My opinion, and answer to your question is resoundingly:
HECK YEAH!
In my not so humble opinon: I don't think the modern mmo players out there need or want a FFxi clone, with outdated stagnant ideas. Furthermore, in my characteristic tactlessness; I submit that anyone trying to make the game such (a ffxi clone) is a ffxi addict who refuses to let go of their addiction.
Am I terse, yeah..... sometimes I am even laconic.
EDIT: your signature art is pretty awesome, but yeah it's way too frigging big. -
03-14-2011, 12:42 PMNefarioCallOff the top of my head i don't remember who posted it, but i think it was a clear headed remark. It is that an MMO requires a lot of time from the player. I for one devoted 6 years of my life on and off to FFXI totaling a little over 100 days play time. FFXI-2 won't work on that level. IMO this game is very different from FFXI at current, though it is incomplete.Quote:
In my not so humble opinon: I don't think the modern mmo players out there need or want a FFxi clone, with outdated stagnant ideas.
However, on the point of time devotion, it is critical that the players feel safe with the longevity of the game. I feel SE is doing a great job of that right now. They are instilling a devotion to develop this game for some time to come. Ultimately though, the numbers must increase for the game to survive long term. If the players feel safe this game will last as long as FFXI, it will help a great deal. -
03-14-2011, 02:24 PMHeartfire
If the goal is to get all the players back, then the game has to lean on its roots in FFXI. FFXI wasn't just an MMO. It was an online Final Fantasy game. That's a huge difference when looking at target audiences.
Most of the people, (that I knew, at least), were previous players of FFXI. In my LS alone, about 80%+ of the players came from FFXI, looking for new places to adventure. I really think that it wasn't just the fact that the game's system sucks, (though that's an effect). I really think the problem was that the game was advertised to be appealing to FFXI players, but not have the game take as long. That's why we can solo as any class, and why all the content is broken into roughly half-hour events. SE realized that the single biggest flaw in FFXI was the amount of time it took to get anything accomplished. Just getting a group could take hours, (before and even after level synch), getting to camp could take around 20-30 minutes. Heaven forbid it was in a dangerous place that required sneak/invisible to get to. Someone would die and have to wait to get raised. Or they'd delevel, and Carbuncle help us then....
So yes, FFXI had a few flaws. But they mostly came from how complex the game was. Players liked the feeling of challenge, because the rewards were worth it, and it made a game that was unique to the genre of MMOs. Out of every MMO I've ever played, (a long list starting at EQ and ending with Rift), FFXI was definitely the most memorable, and very much my favorite. It just wasn't anything like what was out on the market. I think half of its success was due to that fact. It didn't "try" to compete with other MMOs. It did so passively through being one itself. But it didn't use standards from other MMOs. That's what made it so enjoyable.
FFXIV was obviously released far too early, most likely in an attempt to compete against other MMOs. I think what SE should have realized is that from the moment they released "Project Rapture" people were looking into it. FFXI is old. It's sad, and has a lot of memories for me. But I really think that many of the players who bought FFXIV were just looking for the next storyline with the same system. Maybe a few tweaks to make the system better. But I really think that the reason everyone left was because this game wasn't anything that it was advertised as being.
That being said, if FFXIV wasn't so concerned with the competition, and just focused on staying true to being a Final Fantasy game, (excluding FFXIII), I think it would do much better. That's the reason it's predecessor did so well, and it's exactly why so many people left. We want an online Final Fantasy game to play with our friends. Not the people at SE trying to compete with games from the Everquest 2 clone school of thought.... -
03-14-2011, 03:21 PMgifthorse
FFXIV's only target audience at the moment is people who like graphics engines and craftville.
Those are the reasons I play FFXIV, to craft and look good while doing it.
If people want engaging combat, they will go TERA. If they want dynamic quests, then Guild Wars 2 says hi. If they want a sandbox fantasy game where they can change the world around them and explore then they will go to ArcheAge.
There is a very small majority of people who like FFXI-Everquest style of gameplay.
FFXIV needs to take a direction in order to capture an actual, existing market. I have absolutely no idea what direction they are taking at the moment. This is something they have to figure out. -
03-14-2011, 04:12 PMLaughlynIt's been worse, besides SE said themselves that the UI is an ongoing progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune
Or...maybe.. you should consider getting a new system. (Cuz i dont know what you are running)
But from since game release...it's hell of alot faster now.
There's been a few lag-spikes here & there, memory leaks possibly but, i'd keep a lil more faith in SE if i were you. -
03-14-2011, 05:19 PMKeith_Dragoon
I played XI from NA launch to this very day. I do not base my suggestions and feedback on the game but I do take key elements that worked well in that game that is lacking in this one. (hence why i started a thread on the LS Options: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...kshell-Options)
As far as jump goes I am only against it because it just doesn't do the FF name justice in all of the FF numbered titles jump was either not there or automatic at designated jump locations. there has never been any sorta free form jump in any of them. Now I would not quit if it was added but I just hope they have limitations to it or something to keep me from jumping around like a complete jackass. Cause everyone I play with knows that if people are dying due to lack of heals, its because I'm jumping in circles over to the side being totally distracted.
Now something does need to be done to ease player frustration cause the only reason jump is wanted is because the maps aren't friendly on the shoes so to speak. There are plenty spots where your journey is cut short by a 3 inch high brick you can't just walk over. or a ledge that barely passes your shin. These were also in XI but even in that game alot of these spots were setup so that the player would go up and over. That is not the case here unfortunately and is the main reason these debates get so heated. -
03-14-2011, 05:37 PMNeptuneMy system is incredible. Pull out a stopwatch the next few times you load up UI actions. Then fire up another MMO and open some UI commands. Compare. I have faith that SE will fix it, but to follow up with you, I think if people see this game now they will think it is below par because of that and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughlyn
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03-14-2011, 06:14 PMYoungbloodSadly unless WoW dies I don't ever see the game ousting it in popularity and sales. They have a way lot of work to do before that will happen. As it has been stated they'll have to appeal to a broader base of MMO players and not just FFXI/FF fans. They gotta work hard to even appeal to current loyal fans and now with this quake business i'm sure SE is gonna be set behind both timewise and financially. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Neptune
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03-14-2011, 07:15 PMRowyneI've had a very different experience. Many people I know did play FFXI once upon a time, but came to FFXIV looking for something different. My husband, in fact, despised FFXI and only agreed to play FFXIV with me because it promised to be different (and he has actually enjoyed playing FFXIV). But there are also plenty of people in my LS who never played FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartfire
In fact, I've only met ONE person in my travels in FFXIV who specifically said they 'were expecting FFXI with newer graphics'. This was a random newbie I met at the aetheryte outside of Limsa Lominsa the first month of launch who needed some help figuring things out.
To me, Final Fantasy means engaging story, beautiful graphics, and amazing music. Not the outdated concepts of FFXI.
I think that FFXIV can look ahead to the future without losing the integrity that is Final Fantasy. And I think that is the key to getting the attention of the absent players. -
03-14-2011, 08:02 PMNeptuneVery well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
And youngblood, it's unlikely that wow will ever die but I think FFXIV will be popular, if a certain school of thought doesn't choke it like a weed.