Swiftcast + Ruin II

Why use Ruin II under effect of swiftcast consume its effect?

If it is an instant spell why does it consume swiftcast effect?

"Next spell is cast immediately"

It doesn't say "Next spell with no casting time is cast immediately," so yeah it doesn't care/check whether the spell you cast is already instant cast or not, as long as it's a spell it'll consume the swiftcast. Pretty sure surecast is also consumed even if you're not interrupted during the spell cast (cmiiw).

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Pretty sure surecast is also consumed even if you're not interrupted during the spell cast (cmiiw).

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Surecast is consumed even if you ARE interrupted while casting (stun/silence/paralysis/etc), making it even more useless.

Wait, Surecast doesn't prevent spell interruption from Paralysis? Another good reason to never put it in my hotbar.

Surecast only prevents interruption from damage. It's pretty damn useless.

And yea I feel you OP. Sometimes my mind goes crazy and just Swiftcasts +Miasma II/Ruin II and suddenly it's gone. It's really annoying. But ehh mistakes happen.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Surecast is consumed even if you ARE interrupted while casting (stun/silence/paralysis/etc), making it even more useless.

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Yeah the tooltip says "prevents the next spell from being interrupted" while the battle version says "prevents the next spell being interrupted from damage". So basically only useful against high damage but everything else interrupts. Lame.

Surecast is one action that I would celebrate the removal of. I have seen people arguing with the most intense feelings about how useful it is but to me it's a waste of time. If a ladybird farts in the vicinity it gets interrupted. Absolutely pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Brindyr

Why use Ruin II under effect of swiftcast consume its effect?

If it is an instant spell why does it consume swiftcast effect?

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This can't be serious...

The better question is; why are you popping Swiftcast and then casting Ruin II.

Seems like a Pebkac issue.

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Originally Posted by Khubla_Kha

This can't be serious...

The better question is; why are you popping Swiftcast and then casting Ruin II.

Seems like a Pebkac issue.

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Because Swiftcast doesn't consume other Instant effects for Black Mage, so it's an inconsistent cooldown. Given that it's not traited, all instant spellcasts should be treated the same when interacting with Swiftcast (Which is to say, it shouldn't.)

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Because Swiftcast doesn't consume other Instant effects for Black Mage, so it's an inconsistent cooldown. Given that it's not traited, all instant spellcasts should be treated the same when interacting with Swiftcast (Which is to say, it shouldn't.)

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If you swiftcast then Scathe, it will consume it. Fire III has its own proc that is consumed instead of Swiftcast. Abilities are not spells. They aren't what swiftcast is looking for.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

If you swiftcast then Scathe, it will consume it. Fire III has its own proc that is consumed instead of Swiftcast. Abilities are not spells. They aren't what swiftcast is looking for.

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Firestarter isn't an ability, it's a trait that modifies the Fire 3 spell to be an instant cast if it procs. You can't put Firestarter on your hotbar.

That Firestarter procs on the Fire 3 spell don't consume Swiftcast because they're instant cast already is still inconsistent, because the same doesn't apply to spells like Ruin 2 or Bio, which have instant cast built in.

It's a mistake to focus on people screwing up by accidentally Swiftcasting an instant cast spell. If all instant cast spells had the same behaviour as Firestarter or Thundercloud, you would have more options for casting while moving, so it would allow for smart play. Basically, Firestarter or Thundercloud offer an advantage based on inconsistent Swiftcast behaviour. I would guess that it would be helpful for SMN to weave oGCDs as well, but I am better acquainted with BLM.

(That said - SMN is also pretty well equipped for casting while moving, so it's likely that this feature is intentional to support BLM mobility if you're lucky with procs or planned a proc using Sharpcast.)

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Originally Posted by MyraOriales

Firestarter isn't an ability, it's a trait that modifies the Fire 3 spell to be an instant cast if it procs. You can't put Firestarter on your hotbar.

That Firestarter procs on the Fire 3 spell don't consume Swiftcast because they're instant cast already is still inconsistent, because the same doesn't apply to spells like Ruin 2 or Bio, which have instant cast built in.

It's a mistake to focus on people screwing up by accidentally Swiftcasting an instant cast spell. If all instant cast spells had the same behaviour as Firestarter or Thundercloud, you would have more options for casting while moving, so it would allow for smart play. Basically, Firestarter or Thundercloud offer an advantage based on inconsistent Swiftcast behaviour. I would guess that it would be helpful for SMN to weave oGCDs as well, but I am better acquainted with BLM.

(That said - SMN is also pretty well equipped for casting while moving, so it's likely that this feature is intentional to support BLM mobility if you're lucky with procs or planned a proc using Sharpcast.)

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I don't think you understood what I was saying about fire starter. I never said it was an ability, I was saying that abilities won't consume it and that the Firestarter trait (as well as thunder cloud) are exceptions through procs that are consumed to make them instant. I was saying that because it had a proc already, swiftcast would not be consumed. Spells that are inherently instant cast will trigger swiftcast just the same.

Does it limit choice like it is? Yeah, but it's acceptable like it is.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

I don't think you understood what I was saying about fire starter. I never said it was an ability, I was saying that abilities won't consume it and that the Firestarter trait (as well as thunder cloud) are exceptions through procs that are consumed to make them instant. I was saying that because it had a proc already, swiftcast would not be consumed. Spells that are inherently instant cast will trigger swiftcast just the same.

Does it limit choice like it is? Yeah, but it's acceptable like it is.

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Patronising "I don't think you understand" gambit aside, the details of what you're saying are correct, but the point is that Fire 3 is still a spell even it is proc'd and the fact that the proc overrides Swiftcast isn't explained anywhere, so it's still inconsistent behaviour. Whether it's acceptable or not is a different topic.

I've been thinking about it.
If a spell is an instant spell, it shoud be consuming swiftcast effect?

Firestarter trait says "no cast time" and swiftcast effect is not consumed when a fire 3 with proc ative is cast.

Swiftcast says "next spell is cast immediatly", but for instant spells wich are cast with no cast time swiftcast is consumed.

For me its not clear the difference between "instant", "immediatly" and "no cast time".

For me the behavior for those would be the same.

Is it an issue?