Tank carrying in Season 3 Feast

I only know how to play warrior both PVP and PVE. I want to change and try a new tank for season 3. What tank job gives me the best chance to win a match if lets say all 8 players on the 4v4 match is completely brand new?

War>drk>pld in terms of effort. Warrior least effort to make an impact on the game. This is for solo queue. Party is different since PLD relies on communication more and since you don't deal that much damage you are at the mercy of your dps.

If you're worried about your chances of winning with new players, then you should just stick with Warrior.

Paladin has great party utility and support, but that means that they're heavily dependent on the party to actually make use of that support. In the scenario you're describing, even if you play it the best you possibly can, your team will almost certainly waste every opportunity you give them. Pld's don't have enough Dps to cover for weak Dps teammates. Their defensive utility is strong, but it's not strong enough to cover for a weak healer. In the end, you have to rely on your team to carry their own weight. If they can't do that, then you're not carrying them anywhere.

Dark Knight, on the other hand, is a bit of a wild card. Their recent changes make me uncertain of their capabilities within the arena ... but honestly I don't see a bind being a big game changer. With a coordinated group, I could be very useful, but with a bunch of randoms? Not likely. Fresh players, especially, are usually all over the place, so any binds you apply are likely to be wasted or thrown out right off the bat. Carnal Chill is pretty handy for shutting down bursts, but it takes really good timing and awareness to use. It also won't make up for a weak healer. They also have a strong burst, but if you're looking for that you could just stick with War.

War's don't really suffer this drawback. They lack practically any healer support, and their party utility is only moderate, but they don't rely on the party for pretty much anything. Weak heals? No problem. War can self-heal more efficiently than Pld. Weak Dps? No problem. War can burst for comparable numbers. Do you require any support from the team to do either of these things? No. Does your party utility require the team to be aware of it to work (like Pld stuns or Drk Binds)? No. War's can operate without having to worry about their own teammates screwing them over. Pld's and Drk's cannot. War's can also contribute to kills without being solely dependent on the Dps to have their heads on straight. Pld's and Drk's cannot. Between the three, War is the easiest tank to carry with by far, assuming you know how to work your burst.

In the end, if you're looking for the easiest tank to carry with, then War is your answer. It doesn't get easier than that.

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Originally Posted by Chaelyn

War>drk>pld in terms of effort. Warrior least effort to make an impact on the game. This is for solo queue. Party is different since PLD relies on communication more and since you don't deal that much damage you are at the mercy of your dps.

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Do not listen to this advice. Dark knight cannot carry a game better than a paladin. Under no circumstance should you play dark knight in its current form if you want to win.

Beginners will find more success with warrior because your role is basically that of a 3rd dps. Paladin is subjectively better for carrying if you can play it well since it has much more influence on the match with pivotal skills like clemency, testudo, and cover.

Guess I will just stick to warrior as im not good at anything else. Unless I decide to branch out for season 3 and screw players over while I get some practice in.

Definitely warrior for solo queue. Best tank at keeping healers pressured. They'e bulky and have the ability to burst for assists/kills.

You can't carry anyone as a tank. You will lose as much with a WAR as with a PLD. You'll have 45-55% win rate no matter what depending on quality of healers you get.
I'd say healer has 50% of party carry potential, ranged and melee 20% and a tank 10%.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You can't carry anyone as a tank. You will lose as much with a WAR as with a PLD. You'll have 45-55% win rate no matter what depending on quality of healers you get.
I'd say healer has 50% of party carry potential, ranged and melee 20% and a tank 10%.

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All of the roles have 0% potential if you're playing them. :[

Go que or something, we'll see who's better. Oh wait, you don't que as you are affraid to lose rating (gained only through lucky winstreak). Very competitive spirit. Very pvp.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Go que or something, we'll see who's better. Oh wait, you don't que as you are affraid to lose rating (gained only through lucky winstreak). Very competitive spirit. Very pvp.

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Lmao what lucky winstreak ? You don't even know what you're talking about. I had new players in my team every 2 games and monsters in the enemy team, I had to cockblock and do my job right to earn my gold against alts. And you were grinding potd then so why should I queue now and carry you.

And I have played all jobs and roles and have 48% win rate average, almost the same as you playing only 1 job. Try to have that as a new healer especially. I do admit I can underperform because of not enough experience, but is it a cool thing now to harass people for this?

Liquid is in top 100 for the first time after 1000+ matches, he has the right to harass everyone because he's the best : ]

Im i missing something here? Liquid is not even in the top 100 of chaos?

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Originally Posted by MisterAdri

Liquid is in top 100 for the first time after 1000+ matches, he has the right to harass everyone because he's the best : ]

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Do you need glasses over your glasses ? Its 261 matches. I see you made it your job to attack me everywhere possible since I blocked you on discord. Also I never said I was even remotely good.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

Im i missing something here? Liquid is not even in the top 100 of chaos?

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Changed name.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

And I have played all jobs and roles and have 48% win rate average, almost the same as you playing only 1 job. Try to have that as a new healer especially. I do admit I can underperform because of not enough experience, but is it a cool thing now to harass people for this?

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I'm not harrassing you at all, you just need to stop acting like you're very knowledgeable in pvp and trash talk others. And don't pretend to not know what I'm talking about.

You clearly are harassing him. Lately on the forums you've constantly been shittalking the guy and making fun of him while he's done nothing to you. And didn't you do at least 600-700 matches when you were on Odin without being in top 100? : ]

And I've also seen multiple 'I'm in top 100 you are not' comments from you in both the forums and Discord. You clearly are thinking you're good.

Tanks are good for starting the season fresh with, then when you have points racked up switch to dps or healer (if you are adept), then you have a better chance to climb the ladder boards imho... From my experiences in season 2 as PLD I kinda hit a diminishing point of no return with the so called new party paring system (since I missed season 1 due to a move). Anyway, this will be my strat for season 3. Got mnk leveled up and ready to rumble next week after PLD "carries" me into the last 2/3 of the season lol... good luck all!

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Originally Posted by MisterAdri

And I've also seen multiple 'I'm in top 100 you are not' comments from you in both the forums and Discord. You clearly are thinking you're good.

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This is actually....totally true.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

You can't carry anyone as a tank. You will lose as much with a WAR as with a PLD. You'll have 45-55% win rate no matter what depending on quality of healers you get.
I'd say healer has 50% of party carry potential, ranged and melee 20% and a tank 10%.

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Wow, this is so insanely wrong. It breaks down more so like this:

Melee: 35%
Healer: 25%
Ranged: 20%
Tank: 20%

This is very subject to change based on job selection and team composition, mind you, but that, in general, is what you're looking at.

I've lost 95% of games with first time healers. I have lost 50% of games with first time tanks or dps. Healers seem to have the most impact on the outcome.

Bad healers can make a game a sure loss unless the enemy team is equally as bad, but amazing healers just can't carry people at all. A healer could do spectatular and flawlessly and keep their team alive, but if their DPS can't get a kill on a single person, there's nothing a healer can do.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Bad healers can make a game a sure loss unless the enemy team is equally as bad, but amazing healers just can't carry people at all. A healer could do spectatular and flawlessly and keep their team alive, but if their DPS can't get a kill on a single person, there's nothing a healer can do.

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To build on this, The Feast absolutely "hates" healers. You have to deal with several game mechanics which make your job more difficult than it should be.

- Offensive boxes
- Adrenaline
- Heavy Medal
- Culling Time

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

To build on this, The Feast absolutely "hates" healers. You have to deal with several game mechanics which make your job more difficult than it should be.

- Offensive boxes
- Adrenaline
- Heavy Medal
- Culling Time

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Would you consider those things balanced from a tank perspective? A case might be made for Heavy medal because the tank carries the most and can buff themselves, but I'm not sure about offensive buffs or adrenaline. Tank def CD's are pretty long considering the offensive up-time of those buffs and they're likely to only charge 1 defensive LB per match, assuming the box is reserved for the melee. Considering the tank's job would normally include healer support, I'm not sure the offensive/defensive balance in Feast is in a good place right now, but I don't heal so I don't know how healers feel about it or how they view tank support.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Would you consider those things balanced from a tank perspective? A case might be made for Heavy medal because the tank carries the most and can buff themselves, but I'm not sure about offensive buffs or adrenaline. Tank def CD's are pretty long considering the offensive up-time of those buffs and they're likely to only charge 1 defensive LB per match, assuming the box is reserved for the melee. Considering the tank's job would normally include healer support, I'm not sure the offensive/defensive balance in Feast is in a good place right now, but I don't heal so I don't know how healers feel about it or how they view tank support.

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Yeah I mean they don't really effect tanks much (Directly). Heavy medal isn't that big of a deal for tanks. Just don't go above 4 stacks and you're good. You typically are not directly effected by adrenaline boxes, offensive boxes, or culling time.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

Yeah I mean they don't really effect tanks much (Directly). Heavy medal isn't that big of a deal for tanks. Just don't go above 4 stacks and you're good. You typically are not directly effected by adrenaline boxes, offensive boxes, or culling time.

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Not directly effected, no, but that's not quite what I meant.

To give you an example, you might get anywhere from 1-4 adrenaline boxes on top of whatever the enemy manages to charge up on their own, and the healer must heal through it. In theory, the Tank should at least try to mitigate some of that dmg, but they can only charge 1-2 LB's a match (1, on average). LB for LB, the tank is outpaced. They have defensive CD's to compensate; however the Dps also get offensive buffs.

Technically, tanks are not directly effected by offensive boxes either; however, their defensive CD's are quite long. The offensive buffs gained at start and the 4min mark allows for a potential dps buff for almost half the match. That outpaces Tank CD timers and effect duration. So, it would seem that Tanks lag behind in what they can actually achieve in the support role, given that Dps get several clear advantages. The problem, however, is that the math is not cut and dry. It's difficult to gauge exactly how much of the tank's mitigation is actually used at any given time, and there's also the added wrench in the works in the form of stuns, pacification, and clemency, and then there's always the possibility that the dps with an offensive buff will die. So it makes it really hard to judge if the Tanks have enough, or too little, party support.

Obviously it's a case by case basis, but it is a serious question of balancing. If, hypothetically, two completely equal teams were against one another, would the tank's available party support be balanced with the tools Dps have available to them? I'm not sure that's something that can be answered, to be honest, but I often wonder about it -- as well as what healers think, given that they are the one's who rely on party mitigation the most.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

Just don't go above 4 stacks and you're good.

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That made me wonder how much damage tank actually takes with 4 stacks in dps stance. It's 48% more damage taken, but tanks passively take 5% less physical damage than melee dps and 20% less than casters. So if bard's burst does ~9k hp on a melee dps which has 10k hp, and tank has 14.8k, then doing that burst on him will damage for 9k*(148%-5%)=13k HP. So if that burst suddenly starts at 87% HP it might kill a tank instantly. Even if not, it'll force him to pop all cooldowns, likely leaving defenceless for the next burst. Switching to defence stance for the last 2-3 minutes is probably a good idea if your team is leading.

If you want to carry play mch, mnk or drg. In that order. Mch is utterly broken right now if you play it at its potential.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Even if not, it'll force him to pop all cooldowns, likely leaving defenceless for the next burst.

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ALL, is usually overkill.

Rampart and Sentinel reduce dmg by 20 and 40% respectively, regardless of type. Vengeance and Inner beast do the same at 30% and 20% respectively, and they can also self-buff their Hp for extra inflation. As long as they're getting at least some form of direct healing, then they should be okay. Popping multiple buffs at a time would only be something to do if the healer is not providing direct healing for some reason, but in that case you're likely to die anyway, so those buffs would go to waste. War's would have the hardest judgement call to make, because they also use their CD's for stacks of Wrath/Abandon, rather than mitigation ... which is probably why I see more War's die in Feast than Pld's.

Regardless, when it comes to self-mitigation, I think the tanks are in a good spot. When it comes to party-mitigation/support, I'm not as certain.

If you only know how to play Warrior than I would advise you to polish up your skills by reading all the available pvp actions you have. Find out whats meta in the game and adapt yourself accordingly. In my opinion warriors do well in pvp.