Intimidated

So I am "new" (I played long ago, for a few months but casually.) I came back and was interested to get in deep into the game as a DPS (DRG for now.) So, in my time away from the game I have been doing my homework about DRG and how to play them effectively.

I may be getting way ahead of myself, but I am looking at some ridiculously complicated rotations suggested everywhere I look…. So here is where I go: Do I really need to master these things? I want to raid, mostly to see every bit of story content (even non-main scenario) and to get the cool gear, but how far behind would I be if I don’t play the perfectly optimized rotations? Will I potentially cause failure states due to low dps? Or are we just talking about 2%-5% extra damage just for the sake of bragging?

Honestly, prospect of getting to the end game and find me incapable of keeping up scares me, but I would appreciate brutal honesty. Should I forget about raids if Im not willing to use the optimal rotations?

You will need to have a solid grasp of optimal rotations and how to maximize DPS. Lots of endgame fights have had fairly high DPS checks which require everyone to perform above average for their job. On the other hand, everyone makes mistakes from time to time which may make their rotation get a little wonky.

However, what you aren't realizing is that you'll have tons of practice doing these rotations by the time you reach endgame. It becomes more muscle memory than you would think. Also, the development team has stated that they are going to simplify the jobs to some extent in 4.0. However, no one really knows that that's going to entail.

Well honestly you could wait to the new expansion to start raiding, even then there's Extreme trials you could do to try and test your skills in till then, also it'll take you a little while to get to the equipment level needed to do the current end game raiding, also to let you know, it took me about a year to finally get how to play summoner, you can fill the time till the new expansion trying new jobs and getting to really learn your job( BTW real end game is glamour, its never ending ).

Personally never much cared about doing the "Optimal" rotations. I wound up settling into a slightly different pattern than the really in-depth guides recommend, just because I found myself falling into a sort of pattern as I learned to play the class.

Up until 3.4, DRG was my go-to for raiding, and I've never had any trouble keeping up with damage dealing and helping pass checks.

Sorry to derail, but I have a piggyback question to add on the op's question.

Are these rotations easy to do on PS3/PS4 also? I have been playing on a console so far and hotbars start to become a mess quick.

Plenty of people manage to do it with a controller, it's all about building the necessary muscle memory.

Thanks for the reply! I can do my simple low level rotations now. The part that gets crazy for me is fitting everything in the hotbar. Maybe I am packing out too much stuff.

You will have to use a 2nd hotbar most likely. I have two for both Warrior and monk with all of my main offensive and defensive GCDs on the 1st hot bar with things like stance switching and very situational things on the 2nd hotbar. You can set it up to where if you hold L2 and hit R2, it goes to one of your second hotbars and viceversa which can help. You are right that there is pretty much no way to get everything onto 1 hot bar, though.

I play on PS4. It's really pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it. The trick is to sort out your Crossbars, prioritize skills, and assign buttons that work comfortably for you.

I've got all my hotbars worked out to create a "Flow" so I can easily remember and perform my rotations.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

I want to raid, mostly to see every bit of story content (even non-main scenario) and to get the cool gear

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At least in HW, the raids have no own story that you can't just experience through normal mode, which is a lot easier.
The gear is also pretty much the same, just a different color/dyeable, so you aren't really missing out on anything if you do not beat the savage versions.
It has been strongly hinted though that that's going to change with the expansion next summer, but for now, main reason for raiding would be enjoying the challenge (and additional mounts).

As for optimal rotations:
Like others said, a (at least fairly) optimal rotation is necessary to beat DPS checks and just in general smooth fights out too.
It is of course possible to succeed in raiding even with sub-obtimal DPS, but only if others are pulling your weight, and I don't think that's what you are shooting for.

Don't worry though, you will get used to things naturally as you level up/go through content, and it won't be AS overwhelming as it seems now :)
Ah, well, and you have to realize that these rotations are the absolutely optimized ones and you won't be able to fight like that in real battles anyway (by fight design alone).
And that some of it IS a bit over the top and unnecessary :rolleyes:

In raiding, there is also a difference between players. If you are aiming for world first you need a lot more optimization than if you "just want to beat it sometimes before the next patch releases".

Thanks for the feedback.

I so far am able to juggle a few powers, I can actually try to make decisions mid combat (area fx, try to stun asap if it's up.) Is Life Surge up? Try to use it to buff the last step in the combo, open up with Heavy Thrust > Blood for Blood (at my level, unlocked Dragoon last night, not even touched Jump yet) but the number of actions in this: http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...#Dragoon_Guide

THAT intimidates me.

That said, last night I discovered macros and <wait.#.#>. Experimenting with them to "automate" some of this, try to have fewer things to click in my gamepad toolbar.

I believe the game does a fairly good job giving you skills in increments so you learn how,when and where to use them. You'll probably find by the time you hit 60 (bareing in mind you read tooltips and experiment as you level a little) you'll be doing something very close to the optimal rotations out there. Yes being the best of the best in the DPS can be tough but its all down to practice practice practice :) Don't be afraid to ask DRG fc members/mates/mentors for tips and advice.

Also if I can heal on the ps4 in raids you can dps on the ps4 in raids :P

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

Thanks for the feedback.

I so far am able to juggle a few powers, I can actually try to make decisions mid combat (area fx, try to stun asap if it's up.) Is Life Surge up? Try to use it to buff the last step in the combo, open up with Heavy Thrust > Blood for Blood (at my level, unlocked Dragoon last night, not even touched Jump yet) but the number of actions in this: http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wi...#Dragoon_Guide

THAT intimidates me.

That said, last night I discovered macros and <wait.#.#>. Experimenting with them to "automate" some of this, try to have fewer things to click in my gamepad toolbar.

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Do not use macros to "automate" it. Macros don't always fire correctly and only operate in full seconds where as the GCD actually operates in 10ths of a second. So your macro will only fire each input every 3 seconds while the GCD is available every 2.2 to 2.5 seconds (or lower depending on jobs. I think this is roughly what a DRG ends up with at endgame) depending on skill speed. It doesn't seem like much but over the course of a 10 minute fight, which most endgame raids are around there, you will miss out on being able to about 70 GCDs which is a significant amount of damage if each skill does 2-3k (estimated as I usually play WAR). It should be about 300 DPS loss using macros to automate things. Which when jobs are doing about 2k DPS, that's a 15% DPS loss trying to automate your rotation.

Honestly, by the time you're raiding, it will be ingrained in your mind how to do a solid rotation and you won't have to sit there and actively try to remember it. If you do then spend some time at the training dummy working on it (lots of people don't do this any desperately need to).

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

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Tbh, I don't play DRG a lot so I can't say how perfect the linked rotation and opener are, but the combos are fairly standard and the opener length of ~20 skills is the norm for pretty much all classes.
The combos will come to you naturally as you level up, just things like the opener might need a bit of extra practice, and that's what the dummies ingame are for.
Then again, we are back to the "how much is enough" argument.
Many people NEVER use pots for raiding, since they are expensive and not needed to beat the content unless you are minimum item level and have to squeeze every little bit of possible DMG out of your character to get anywhere.
Really. Just go step by step, do not feel intimidated, you won't get those skills all at once, it's just 1 extra one at a time that you will naturally make part of your rotation until in the end, you have them all :)

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

That said, last night I discovered macros and <wait.#.#>. Experimenting with them to "automate" some of this, try to have fewer things to click in my gamepad toolbar.

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Don't. Macros cripple your dps more than you ever could through messing up your rotation.
They are great for a few things (mouse-over heals, automatic explanations, crafting, etc.) but absolutely horrible for fighting.
There is a long gap in between each skill/ability, you can't string buffs, etc.
Having a lot of skills specially on controller is something you take time to get used to, but once muscle memory kicks in, it will be fine. You'll get better at it.
While macros will stay slow and bad.

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Originally Posted by Grant_Wilshire

I can do my simple low level rotations now. The part that gets crazy for me is fitting everything in the hotbar.

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It takes a bit of configuration, but if you set up an extended cross hotbar and W cross hotbar and separate out your in-combat bar from out-of-combat bar (based on the weapon drawn or sheathed settings), there's actually a lot of buttons available, and all that's before even having to swap your main hotbar back and forth between alternate ones, which opens up even more.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

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Meet a summoner who would macro her poison rotation, she was um very bad, every time she would move she restarted the macro thing so she was able to " absorb" her surroundings. While it takes time to get use to the rotations and stuff, it shouldn't be automated. Just try the rotations over and over again in till you manage to get it down, but know that since you're still leveling you will have to get use to the changes made with the release of HW so don't think everything is set in stone once you get to level 50( even 60 since 4.0 is going to be released next year).

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

try to stun asap if it's up.

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That's a habit you'll want to get out of. Mobs get stun resistance very quickly and stuns should be saved for interrupting certain big attacks. It should be fine until you start getting to the level 50 dungeons though.

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Originally Posted by Dement

Do not use macros to "automate" it. Macros don't always fire correctly and only operate in full seconds where as the GCD actually operates in 10ths of a second.

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Well, that is lame... why they even allow decimal places anyways then? I was playing with it last night, didnt have much chance to experiment, I DID feel it was slower but thought it was just all in my head.... and going <wait.2.47> seemed to be too short to actually execute things in order so I assumed it was all working, now I guess it was just rounding it to 2.0...

Honestly, my biggest deal is I want to play with the DualShock, I can easily handle working with 8 hotkeys, but my fingers are not as young as they used to be, juggling between L2 and R2 has been a challenge. Was hoping at least the 3 phase combos could be consolidated (prays for that revamp to turn the combos into "passives" that just make the same Ability to combo up if no misses.)

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Originally Posted by Sagittarian

That's a habit you'll want to get out of. Mobs get stun resistance very quickly and stuns should be saved for interrupting certain big attacks. It should be fine until you start getting to the level 50 dungeons though.

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awww.... Well I guess i have more homework to do about that, but I am guessing it's not a bad thing ever in non-boss fights right? I mean, they still last a short time and it sounds like interrupting one of the possibly 2 or 3 effects may be a time saver...

Was kind of fun to do something besides raw DPSing, I mean, tanks and healers seem to do a lot much more in their roles, was thinking stunning/interrupting was kinda of a DPS role. Sad to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ogulbuk

awww.... Well I guess i have more homework to do about that, but I am guessing it's not a bad thing ever in non-boss fights right? I mean, they still last a short time and it sounds like interrupting one of the possibly 2 or 3 effects may be a time saver...

Was kind of fun to do something besides raw DPSing, I mean, tanks and healers seem to do a lot much more in their roles, was thinking stunning/interrupting was kinda of a DPS role. Sad to be wrong.

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Don't take it out of your wheelhouse completely. Just don't use it whenever it is available on bosses. Sometimes it will be a dragoon or monk handling the stuns .. it depends on the party. But spamming stuns will mean it won't work when you need it to. On non-bosses, go for it.

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Originally Posted by Sagittarian

Don't take it out of your wheelhouse completely. Just don't use it whenever it is available on bosses. Sometimes it will be a dragoon or monk handling the stuns .. it depends on the party. But spamming stuns will mean it won't work when you need it to. On non-bosses, go for it.

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I would actually disagree with this in most scenarios. -Most- bosses are already immune to Stun so you'll want to use OGCD Stuns upon cooldown for the damage that they cause. Honestly, the only exception I can really think of is Ifrit's Eruptions that can be Stunned. There are adds in several boss fights which you need to Stun and don't want to build the resistance up, Leviathan, T5, Forgall (even this can be silenced though if stun resistance is too high), orb phase of Brawler etc. However, it's something that you have to learn on a fight by fight basis. I will tell you that my default mode is to use Brutal Swing (WAR stun) as soon as it is up.