Needs Improvement to Story (Spoiler Warning)

I think that the story needs improvement. The main characters may be heroes, but they've got high survivability in the story. It just seems to drag on and they barely get a scratch, while Rauhabn gets his arm chopped off. I admire my character, but I do not feel like I would be concerned with what happens to him during the story. I just knew he would survive 100% even from a fall anyway. Maybe have our characters make a dilemma that leads to different consequences that could lose important NPC characters or loss of our attributes or gears. Maybe make it optional for storylovers with high-risk rewards at the expense of our current possessions and important characters. But make the story more real. Like for example, I THOUGHT Nanamo died for real and that moved me with tears. I was moved that she would give her throne for democracy and that she "died" for her country. But when the story progressed and she was alive, I was irritated because it's so cliched.

Interestingly, the question about branching story paths was asked at FanFest, and while they're planning to look into integrating your specific Job into cutscenes, the idea of a scenario where a character is alive in one person's game and dead in another's was nixed as "never going to happen." This is likely a combination of finite resources and the dev team wanting to tell a specific story; that said, it's been getting steadily more interactive as time goes on, so who knows what the future could bring?

As for consequences: like the interactive moments, the shades of grey have been increasing as things go on, but even taking that into account, FFXIV has long since shown that it falls into a common category of story where the world itself exists in hostile shades of grey, but whose main protagonists exist and operate outside that system. Look at it as "the story is about Good triumphing over Evil in a world where it's difficult for Good to be." You can debate the effectiveness of this method - there are definitely moments where I would have preferred a few more consequences myself - but it is what it is. It's best to ask yourself, "am I enjoying this world, these characters, and the narrative they're wrapped up in enough to put up with simplistic solutions to complicated problems and the odd contrived moment in the story?"

I'm not sure I can quite agree. Don't get me wrong, I thought Nanamo being fine was a pretty lame thing to do after the ending of 2.5.5, but I still believe that Nanamo died and the Lalafell we believe to be her is some pawn of Lolorito, someone who looks a lot like her, who he had brainwashed to act and think like her. Its fun to dream.

But there are consequences and gravity to what we do, and I think we feel that a lot. Think of the dinner scene with Aymeric. When the servant is off preparing drinks, your characters STARES at them, and personally, in my mind, I kept going, 'Oh god, he's going to get poisoned and people are going to blame us.'

Beyond something like that, however, just look at the end of 3.4. The Scions are reunited, but one of the number is gone forever. Its like losing Moenbryda again (though personally I liked her a lot more). In this specific case, we learn the Scions of the Seventh Dawn will never again be the same either. Before they always worked in tandem, in specific areas, towards one goal. Now they'll each be working towards their own goals, which simply share the common long-term dream of making the world better. The Scions feel fractured and divided even when re-united. There is no strong leadership anymore, no guiding individual to tell them what to do. The days of Louisoix and Minfilia are gone. There is no new leader of the Scions.

DRK 30-50 questline. Enough said.

They aren't likely to do divergent paths in the story simply because of the work it would take to implement. Doing so would negatively effect other aspects of the game simply because they would have less time/resources to work on them.

I also wouldn't say our characters have been left completely unscathed, at least on an emotional level. The Nanamo thing was lame but we have still lost a number of allies and been betrayed and frequently we have had to fight against foes who we can at least somewhat sympathise with. Eorzea is a world full of tragedy and pain, even if the overall feel of the game is kept upbeat.

In 3.4 we basically have the band back together but there are plenty of scars showing. Things aren't the way they once were and won't be. Frankly HW to me felt like the WoL going through a rather dark place in a lot of senses and only now coming out the out of it more world wary but stronger. Perhaps my viewpoint was somewhat colored though by the DRK story quests and the worlds that the WoD said near the end of 3.4.

Unfortunately, dead characters have a bad habit of not staying dead unless they're villains. In most every work of fiction.

Massive God Eater 2 spoilers, so don't click if you don't want to know.

In that game, two of the main protagonists die. One is killed by the giant monsters, and your captain later becomes one such monster himself but is sealed away to prevent the apocalypse (it's a long story).

In the updated rerelease, which includes another story arc set after the main game's ending, both end up getting saved with only the main antagonist permanently dying. Your old captain is saved, and the other is brought back with a deus ex machina. There is literally no explanation for the latter - just, you finish the story arc and poof! He's back!

While this game does get a lot of flak for the fakeout death of Nanamo (which still rankles a bit - people don't asphyxiate and then "it was just a sleeping potion, lolz!"), that was the only fakeout death we've really had. The Scions' fates were ambiguous, so them surviving was not entirely an ass-pull and Minfilia is for most intents and purposes dead at this point. Haurchefant and Ysayle are both dead. All of the villains we've crossed swords with, save a small handful (Nero, Regula, and Ilberd), are dead. People do bite it... but we're safe since, according to Alexander, we'll have to make a choice at some point and he cannot see what lies beyond despite having the power to observe all continuum shifts. We're going to decide the fate of reality itself. No pressure!

... but if what you're asking for is branching story paths, well... that's just not economical to put in an MMO. Best to look elsewhere for that sort of thing.

As cool as it seems...that would take alot of resources...more then I'd be willing to give honestly to take away from other content, which is far more needed.

One thing that did irk me about the story is how crazy overpowered we are. At least in FFXI we were a hero sure...but not a god or the "chosen one". Our mortality was made very...very clear.

Honestly the story itself is meh, which is fine for an MMO. Especially after the last patch fiasco, little of it making sense.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

As cool as it seems...that would take alot of resources...more then I'd be willing to give honestly to take away from other content, which is far more needed.

One thing that did irk me about the story is how crazy overpowered we are. At least in FFXI we were a hero sure...but not a god or the "chosen one". Our mortality was made very...very clear.

Honestly the story itself is meh, which is fine for an MMO. Especially after the last patch fiasco, little of it making sense.

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I think people overestimate the strength of the WoL. The WoL is an exceptional fighter and mage but not on a god level. Rather the WoL has the Blessing of Light, which seems more to be effectively a lvl sync forced on godlike beings to take the edge off their strongest abilities. Beyond that the WoL is just as prone to injury and death as any of the other high ranking fighters in Eorzea.

Lets not forget, we aren't the only mortals to have ever killed a primal. I see it as us having a special item that gives us a +1000% against gods, supernatural threats and monstrous foes. Remember, back when we fought Ultima we could barely hurt it until our Blessing of Light activated and then it suddenly became prone.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Lets not forget, we aren't the only mortals to have ever killed a primal. I see it as us having a special item that gives us a +1000% against gods, supernatural threats and monstrous foes. Remember, back when we fought Ultima we could barely hurt it until our Blessing of Light activated and then it suddenly became prone.

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key word is "a", The Company of Heores, the 2nd highest record holders of primal slaying only managed to slay two. And that is with heavy casualties. The Warriors od Darkness would havce matched the Company of Heroes had we not interrupted them at Paga'than and would had came between them and us for the worked because had we not pre-empted the Garuda and Titan resummoning.

Us? We had slayed a good total of 10 deiforms, with another 5 in sidequests (Odin, Bahamut, Alexander, Sephirot and Sophia), and this isn;t due to the Blessing of Light (otherwise Ravana would has made us mincemeat and Bismarck would had ensured we lived out the climax of Pinnochio) it was due to the Echo which prevented us from being tempered

And then there is the amount of weapons we usually find that tend to be named after mythological weapons (including those of the gods themselves) and if the Lorebook is to be belived, are more ofthen than not one of a kind (Including the dungeon drops and Esoteric weapons)

Oh and back to the martial prowess, we also slayed legiosn of voidsent up to and including one of their weens, the envoys of a different queen and an anchient guardian of a lost relic that can kill voidsent (oh and a black hole)

There is a very good reason Elidibus says we are encroaching on the realm of gods. But on the other hand all of that (Echo and Blessing including) mught be dueto Hydaelyn putting all her eggs in 1 humanoid basket, ina last desperate push for survival.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Honestly the story itself is meh, which is fine for an MMO. Especially after the last patch fiasco, little of it making sense.

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See, this is what I'd disagree with. The story has only been getting better, both in content and execution, and 3.4 was the best it's been in a very, very long time.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

key word is "a", The Company of Heores, the 2nd highest record holders of primal slaying only managed to slay two. And that is with heavy casualties. The Warriors od Darkness would havce matched the Company of Heroes had we not interrupted them at Paga'than and would had came between them and us for the worked because had we not pre-empted the Garuda and Titan resummoning.

Us? We had slayed a good total of 10 deiforms, with another 5 in sidequests (Odin, Bahamut, Alexander, Sephirot and Sophia), and this isn;t due to the Blessing of Light (otherwise Ravana would has made us mincemeat and Bismarck would had ensured we lived out the climax of Pinnochio) it was due to the Echo which prevented us from being tempered

And then there is the amount of weapons we usually find that tend to be named after mythological weapons (including those of the gods themselves) and if the Lorebook is to be belived, are more ofthen than not one of a kind (Including the dungeon drops and Esoteric weapons)

Oh and back to the martial prowess, we also slayed legiosn of voidsent up to and including one of their weens, the envoys of a different queen and an anchient guardian of a lost relic that can kill voidsent (oh and a black hole)

There is a very good reason Elidibus says we are encroaching on the realm of gods. But on the other hand all of that (Echo and Blessing including) mught be dueto Hydaelyn putting all her eggs in 1 humanoid basket, ina last desperate push for survival.

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This is all true but we can still die from a knife in the back or a poison drink. If the WoL isn't paying attention a grunt with a sword could still cut their head off. The WoL is still fundamentally mortal.

That could change as they have the echo. I also agree that the WoL is Hydaelyn's final major play in this war and she has put a lot of faith in them.

No we cant. We literally cant die, even if we want to. Wipe to a primal? wake up second later with echo. Die to a story mission or fail it cause npc dies, we come back in time and redo it with more echo strength, we pretty much are god slayers, so...were basically killers of gods. How do you know that drink in falcons nest was just a roofie? it was probably killemall poison, and like all raids, we wake up later, fuzzy headed with 10
% more hp for the next 50 minutes.....

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

No we cant. We literally cant die, even if we want to. Wipe to a primal? wake up second later with echo. Die to a story mission or fail it cause npc dies, we come back in time and redo it with more echo strength, we pretty much are god slayers, so...were basically killers of gods. How do you know that drink in falcons nest was just a roofie? it was probably killemall poison, and like all raids, we wake up later, fuzzy headed with 10
% more hp for the next 50 minutes.....

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I do wonder how much of this is gameplay-story segregation, though. Normally I'd say it ALL is, with the Blessing and the Echo simply making us stronger and sturdier than we might otherwise be, but then you have the Warriors of Darkness reviving via the Blessing/Echo in 3.4.

Is there any indication that we have the actual power to cheat death, as far as the actual story goes?

I do wish they hadn't faked out Nanamo's death mostly because it distracts from the fact that those events had terrible consequences for everyone else that stuck pretty firmly; Wilred is still dead, Raubahn is still missing an arm, Y'shtola is still blind and eating away at her life-force to function and Thancred has still lost his magic and is now aging again as a consequence.

If they had just shown us from the get-go that she was in a coma it'd have all worked a lot better, we'd have felt the impact of everything else a lot harder.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

No we cant. We literally cant die, even if we want to.

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Well that depends if this is something only for gameplay or if this part of the story. We know its possible for the WoD to get back up but that was thanks to their special condition. We also don't really kill primals again and again so I would say that in the story we only have one chance to beat the primal and we manage to do so. It was also said somewhere that you going back to aetheryte after being "death" does not mean we are dead but only unconscious. So I would say that us dieing in a battle might be it or maybe we suddenly know how to possess another body thanks to the echo.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

I do wonder how much of this is gameplay-story segregation, though. Normally I'd say it ALL is, with the Blessing and the Echo simply making us stronger and sturdier than we might otherwise be, but then you have the Warriors of Darkness reviving via the Blessing/Echo in 3.4.

Is there any indication that we have the actual power to cheat death, as far as the actual story goes?

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that is a good question, since the echo essentially could just be used to relive the occurence, like a day dream or such, essentially how we get stronger so that the vision is successful, but i could be completely wrong. WoD definately brings that point up moreso, since they apparently gave up the flesh to come to our world, in which would make more sense they just keep coming back.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Honestly the story itself is meh, which is fine for an MMO. Especially after the last patch fiasco, little of it making sense to me.

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FTFY.

Sorry but the story makes perfect sense if you're paying attention. 3.4 was by far the best story update we've had in the game as it finally gave us an overview of the cosmology and it greatly expanded our understanding of what's actually going on and what's at stake. If you didn't understand it then feel free to ask for help. Don't just claim it's bad because you can't follow it.

OP I can only greatly disagree with you I'm afraid. The story was a little weak in places early on but from Heavensward and on it's only gotten better and better. Setting aside the Nanamo fakeout we've had three particularly poignant deaths of main characters as it is, and they have very much remained dead. One of those deaths was actually so big a deal to the community that a memorial to him was erected at the Vegas fan fest. There's even a quest in game after completing the 3.3 MSQ that gives you the chance to mourn all those that died in a very touching fashion (by far the best quest in the entire game thus far IMO). There is very much a sense of loss in this story, the WoL has not weathered the events of Heavensward entirely unscathed and it has greatly affected them emotionally. The scene with Aymeric at dinner in 3.4 was an amazing reflection of this.

Branching story paths are hugely impractical for an MMO as you have to develop multiple times the normal amount of story content and most players will only see a fraction of it. It's simply not an efficient use of resources and uneconomical. It would also make the story a mess for the community as no one would share the same experience and thus this forum would become a nightmare since no one would be on the same page in terms of events.

As for introducing any sort of risk of losing equipment, levels or attributes, sorry but those kinds of mechanics are largely hated in modern MMOs. The only games to feature such things now will be ones targeted solely at veterans of the genre. It'll never happen here.

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Is there any indication that we have the actual power to cheat death, as far as the actual story goes?

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In a manner of speaking, yes but we haven't used it that way yet.
The Ascians (who are apparently echo masters) have the power to chest death using their crystals and a mortal host. Which is how Lahabrea survived the Praetorium. If you think this is exclusive to servants of Zodiark, 3.4 reveals another group of echo users, using crystals of light, to that same end. The Warrors of Darkness (both in-game and in story)

The catch however is that you wound give up your soul and your flesh to do so, and that cutscene in 3,4's makes me speculate this state is like a Gender-neutral versions of the Magical Girls in Madoka Magica, with the soul placed in a crystal, a body controlled remotely from it and a "battery life" of sorts. Though we're unsure how much this applies to the Ascians.

yes the Warrior of Light can cheat death, but they so far haven't use the canon method of doing so, and even if they have they could be more of a lich. With that said The deaths and failues I think might be explained by another function of the echo. Has there been any indication in 1.0 or beyond that the Echo's powers include visions of the future?