Bring back the complex recipes.

Complexity is a GOOD thing. Many of us enjoyed the gathering of different materials to create one item. It gave us a sense of accomplishment and encouraged the crafting community to work together.
What you have now is completely detrimental to the strengthening of the games community, the games economy and of course, the sense of accomplishment is completely gone.

I, and I believe many others, prefer the new recipe system. It's not without downsides, to be sure, but it's worth it. I created a new character just to test out how starting fresh was in 1.19 and was pleased to find myself able to make my own gear without relying on other players or taking my crafting classes ahead of my battle class.

Needless complexity is why the game was failing, I do not agree with the OP.

Dear god, no.

Complexity != depth

The old system was a horrific labyrinth of confusion and tedium.

It could have used some changing but by no means was it bad. The only thing they needed to do was make ingredients in your level range be available at your level range. Waiting for an alchemist to reach level 20 so you can craft some level 10 stuff on leatherworker, was very stupid. However, relying on others to provide materials, brought the community together in a way I found very appealing. It's unfortunate you guys don't see it as such. I almost guarantee you guys do not even bother with crafting and have no valid argument against the previous system that invoked a sense of accomplishment and perseverance that made people actually pick crafting up.

What we have now is a simple crafting system that anyone can dish out without too much hassle. People will become self-reliant and crafting will become a big joke. The ifrit drops don't help this cause either.

This is supposed to be an mmorpg. Why are you people drawn to this casual, instant gratification crap? Are you not seeing a pattern here or are you people not familiar with the mmo industry?

Relying on the community to provide materials did not bring anybody together at all. It made people become more self reliant and level more crafts themselves because it was a gigantic pain in the ass to track down someone to take 20 minutes to go through a 5 step synth process (if you were lucky enough to have/find materials) in order to get one part that you needed for a piece of gear. No one sold intermediate parts except for leather vamps or whatever other random parts only took 1 item to make.

Standardizing the materials made gatherers able to actually sell their wares and crafters able to sell materials if they did not/could not make finished items and both can make a profit. Most pieces of gear actually gets made now unlike before where you had to settle on random junk because it was the only thing that was sold because it was the least idiotic recipe to perform.

You know how I feel accomplished? A low level friend returns and needs gear. I make them a set of gear in 10 minutes, they are off and on their way. I figure I have some extra mats so I make a few more pieces that sell overnight.

Having a simpler system attracts more people and the more people partaking in crafting, the better for the economy and the better for the players because more items get supplied to the masses.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

It could have used some changing but by no means was it bad. The only thing they needed to do was make ingredients in your level range be available at your level range. Waiting for an alchemist to reach level 20 so you can craft some level 10 stuff on leatherworker, was very stupid. However, relying on others to provide materials, brought the community together in a way I found very appealing. It's unfortunate you guys don't see it as such.

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I do agree with you. It's great that many recipes require that players obtain materials from others. I had to rely on the markets or LS members for many materials outside my specialty to make the new gear for 1.19.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

I almost guarantee you guys do not even bother with crafting and have no valid argument against the previous system that invoked a sense of accomplishment and perseverance that made people actually pick crafting up.

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50WVR, 41LTW, 30ARM, 30GSM, 22ALC, 22BSM, 21CRP, 21CUL - No, I do not bother with crafting at all.
Sarcasm aside, I started weaving and conjury as my main classes right away and have kept up crafting, and even a good amount of grinding, straight since release. I haven't been as dedicated as other players, for sure, but I've experienced the difficulties and benefits of the crafting system through the patches.

Under the old recipe system, it took me nearly thirty minutes to craft a suit of plate mail from raw materials (sabatons, gauntlets, cuirass, celata). I don't think this was practical.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

What we have now is a simple crafting system that anyone can dish out without too much hassle. People will become self-reliant and crafting will become a big joke. The ifrit drops don't help this cause either.

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It still takes a long time to get to 50. People mostly rely on others for gear even now. I don't see the majority of players becoming completely self-sufficient gear-wise for a long long time. Some players dislike crafting entirely and never will take it very far. Also keep in mind that, while the recipe revamp reduced the complexity, the addition of materia added some back.

I liked the old recipes and the complexity. With the exceptions of a select few, almost all made good sense.
Inventory issues was a big problem though. We just didn't have enough space to cover all the random parts we generate and we tend to have leftover parts.

It didn't make sense to sell the parts either because of space issues either - in both bazaar and inventory.

If we're given...say...100 slots on retainers for every craft we level over 20, then I'll say "go ahead and bring back the old system".

I don't mind the new reduced system either though I do feel it was dumbed down.

The inventory was definitely an issue and the amount of screens you had to open just to begin crafting was ridiculous but that's all in the past now. It's just unfortunate that the recipes were done away with.

It was impossible to even get the parts you needed to make stuff. Nobody sold cotton tabard fronts, etc. The market was too diluted and the wards too inefficient for that to ever work. It was also a gigantic pain in the ass to actually make anything as it took forever (and actually still does) to track down the materials and put it together.

Another problem was that the part levels were somewhat off. While it made common sense to have cloth being harder to make than using it, it didn't translate well in game terms. By the time everyone got to the "cloth level", they are already way past the parts level.

That said, I made 100% of everything I equipped for all my classes - Now I have 45+ in every craft except CUL and it took me a full year. I don't suppose a lot of people have the same level of conviction heh...

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

It could have used some changing but by no means was it bad. The only thing they needed to do was make ingredients in your level range be available at your level range. Waiting for an alchemist to reach level 20 so you can craft some level 10 stuff on leatherworker, was very stupid. However, relying on others to provide materials, brought the community together in a way I found very appealing. It's unfortunate you guys don't see it as such. I almost guarantee you guys do not even bother with crafting and have no valid argument against the previous system that invoked a sense of accomplishment and perseverance that made people actually pick crafting up.

What we have now is a simple crafting system that anyone can dish out without too much hassle. People will become self-reliant and crafting will become a big joke. The ifrit drops don't help this cause either.

This is supposed to be an mmorpg. Why are you people drawn to this casual, instant gratification crap? Are you not seeing a pattern here or are you people not familiar with the mmo industry?

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that was the idea of the game but people ended up level up all the craft -.- they should have really made a limit how many craft you could have take on to 50

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Needless complexity is why the game was failing, I do not agree with the OP.

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I have to agree with this post.

SE is trying to hard to be unique & innovative, while failing to deliver a comfortable user-friendly experience for a reasonable amount of our free time.

The only thing that sucks about the new system is the lack of items to grind on to build your craft. The complexity was ridiculous. The fact you NEVER know what you need to do to get a +1 +2 +3 items is still freaking broken AND the fact you can take a HQ piece then have to dye it LATER not DURING the craft process and then LOSE your HQ, SUCKS!

I see the point the OP is making and I can agree with some but not all of their views.

Edit: The ONLY item I am currently aware of that does not follow the mats>craft>finish>craft to dye scenario are the scarfs. Not sure WHY that is but it is that way and I found out AFTER I had made a few and tried to dye them. Nothing like having 99.99999% of the other craftable gear be mats>craft>item>craft>dye finish to do that and the system tell you, "These items can not be crafted." WTF?! O.o

I also do not agree with the OP. I leveled LTW with the old system ONLY to repair my gear. I felt like the only recipes I was capable of doing was the absolutely simplest ones possible (Hide>leather>vamps). As a L45 LTW with the new system, I'm making gloves, harnesses, subligars, shields, and pretty much everything near my level to rank up. Sure, I could still stick to making Raptor leather, but now that the system is simpler, I don't feel like I NEED to. I now have the freedom to diversify with all the other recipes. Please please please, don't go back to the old system.

On a side note: I liked how I could make Fingerless Raptorskin gloves, and either decide to sell them, or dye them white to make more money (and get an extra XPable synth out of them). With the new dying system they're introducing...well...I guess we'll see...

No thanks.

We are getting a bit more depth with the dye and enchanment system.

Plus you are insane if you think the devs are going to reroll their hard work.

You're insane if you think they are adding depth.
All they are doing is making everything as linear as possible so nobody complains about things taking too long.

1.20 is going to be dungeon running fantasy.

No.
/10char

The death of the mmorpg genre.
MMO- a game where thousands of people play by themselves.

I agree. The game is too simple now... It's a game with SNES-like complexity...not really that nice. I do liked more the old recipes too...

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

Complexity is a GOOD thing. Many of us enjoyed the gathering of different materials to create one item. It gave us a sense of accomplishment and encouraged the crafting community to work together.
What you have now is completely detrimental to the strengthening of the games community, the games economy and of course, the sense of accomplishment is completely gone.

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it is true that many liked the horrid crafting system. but they changed it because more people hated it.

Did they hate the crafting systems mechanics or did they hate the craftings interface? I think it was the latter honestly.

...they just spent god knows how much time simplifying the recipes. The only "complex" thing I see them doing is adding rare materials.

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Originally Posted by Lucifer

Did they hate the crafting systems mechanics or did they hate the craftings interface? I think it was the latter honestly.

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this is really a dead horse here but here it goes. Different people hated different aspects im sure, but what i disliked was needing so many crafts to lvl 1 craft. I dont want to have to have 30 lth or 40 wvr or anything like that to do arm(hypothetical), i only want to do armor. I dont like needing lvl 40 parts to make a lvl 25 item and i didnt like need 1000 different mats. I really like how its been steamlined and lots of recipes got nixed. Since 1.19 i got my arm from 10 to 46 and am closing in on 50. So that being said the new system has really worked for me.

hey! i'm commenting on the same thread again! the answer is no. for elaboration, you can look at the comments below or your old thread! k thanks!

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Originally Posted by bird

hey! i'm commenting on the same thread again! the answer is no. for elaboration, you can look at the comments below or your old thread! k thanks!

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I'm sorry but I was under the impression that you were not someone of importance. I had no idea you were making decisions for SE.

Listen people, If the old system was too much effort, why not change the method in which you deliver complexity?

Yoship decides to lower the amount of mats you need for a bunch of recipes but forgets to reduce the amount of materials from nodes. What the hell is up with that?
All you have to do is leave the city and walk/teleport to the correct area and you will get all the materials you need to accomplish any of the recipes. Since nothing is rare, you get what you need in a matter of minutes (assuming you gather level meets the requirement but if you're crafting, chances are you're gathering is up to date).
The ease of procurement is another thing that bothers me. Why aren't we going inside dangerous mines to look for ores? Everything is so extremely easy. I know the maps are coming in 2.0 but SE should be informed. They don't have to make it super complex but at least do something about the ease of material gathering.

You're all going to get bored of this game extremely fast if all you do is go through dungeons. Things need to be long term. Instant gratification should not be something we deal with.

When everyone else is fine and you're the only one thinking the system is poor, it's not a problem with us.

Despite everything being easy to get everyone still manages to make a profit. They are adding rare material nodes that change location, and other stuff to gatherers, and stuff like crafting inside beastmen facilities to create rare items. These ideas are actually interesting unlike needing to synth 20 steps and needing 50 materials.

Complexity is good if it's done right, but in the case of XIV at the start it was done poorly. While you may not notice it there is a sense of complexity in the current craft system and that's the concept of having a base piece of armor with the ability to augment it with more stats. With the current system it's pretty much make gear, then use some of same materials with dye to augment it with new stats.

When 1.20 hits the odd are the recipes to make the augment gear may involve alchemy or goldsmith materials which will further add more "compelxity" to customizing gear to the liking of a player. For all we know the recipe to make the War based armor may be some alchemic vial, or attaching a gemstone to it. But ya overall the process that's been started is much better then what it was before. The idea of having to use 5-8 items to make a basic weapon was just to much lol.

As the time progresses and as mentioned above the rare nodes come into play the complexity will increase at a rate that people can adapt to without feeling overwhelmed by what's in front of them.