Anti Raid kick troll groups feature.

This Thread can be closed since no its flooded with trols now.

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Originally Posted by Androir

But the option "troling" is in need of a personal view.

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my personal view is that you are trolling o.ô;

waiting 15 mins before you can kicke somebody? you can finish entire dungeons in 15 mins. instead of waiting 15 mins inside the dungeon because of an afk healer or something i would just leave, take the 30 mins penalty and just do something else in that time...

a debuff wich reduces your stats for two days if you kick 5 people a day? that's insane. can you even kick 5 people a day? there is a long cooldown for the kick feature already in place.

game masters checking the chat log for all those kicks... i don't think so...

i hate all your (overly complicated) ideas. the kick system is fine. the only thing missing is that the name of the person who started the vote kick should be shown.

..........

What in the... entertaining read I guess.

[QUOTE=Tint;3885441 the name of the person who started the vote kick should be shown.[/QUOTE]

This.
When I get kicked for no reason I would find it so much more easier when reporting them if I could at least say who did it, rather than give the GM a vague as hell 'I think --- did it, they were being an asshat the rest of the run', or w/e. I mean, the GM can easily bring up the command channel and see who initiated the kick anyway, but...

..........

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Originally Posted by Androir

To making things like this what was happening to me or cyber bullying/stalking possible?
No way! No naming and shaming! But a possible punishment for this trolls.

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There is a punishment. It's called reporting them to a GM. Also, link anything they say as it can be held against them. That's all you're going to get.
The trolls will only get a point on their account, or a warning at the very least. I just wish people were more inclined to report these asshats more often, the more they're reported for their bullshittery the more likely they'll land themselves a perma-ban, or at the very least learn not to be asshats.

And GM do what? Punish all but this guys? I had lost my trusting in a GM or Support guys here weeks ago.

/edit: a Mod/GM was it who bullyed me.

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Originally Posted by Androir

And GM do what? Punish all but this guys? I had lost my trusting in a GM or Support guy here weeks ago.

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If he's constantly kicking you or w/e the GMs will eventually see it's not you but them being a knob-end. You just can't say anything / feed them as it negates what the GMs can actually do, and can also get you in shit because they pull up the chat to see what went down and see you throwing f-bombs, or w/e you did to get you banned, all over the place.

If they keep trolling then you have to make them slip up, leaving only them as the bad guy.

Lol, I've never been kicked justly.
The kicks I have received were because I was calling out bad/lazy players.
This issue isnt rampant.
You are probably playing very badly.

Honestly the only thing I agree with is a temporary ban on kicking people between a certain time frame.
You shouldn't need to kick anyone more than five times a day, I barely have any issues with anyone in a week and I spend 5-6 days a week doing nothing but dungeons for about 11 hours straight. Or at the very least one kick per person per hour.

If you're kicking people more often than that then you're clearly up to something. >_>

This guys had insulted me more then 1 time to much and they shall get no punishment for kick abusing?
They enter. dont greet, insult me as a Troll, instant rush and then a small normal sentence .. after a time of failing the realy bad insults and then, after some bosses(i am wondering my self why i hadnt quited by my self.. hold on .. the insult friendly 30 minutes lock and 12 wasted try a week), they kick you.

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Originally Posted by Androir

This guys had insulted me more then 1 time to much and they shall get no punishment for kick abusing?
They enter. dont greet, insult me as a Troll, instant rush and then a small normal sentence .. after a time of failing the realy bad insults and then, after some bosses(i am wondering my self why i hadnt quited by my self.. hold on .. the insult friendly 30 minutes lock and 12 wasted try a week), they kick you.

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Then record / copy and paste anything they say to you and put it into your report. As long as you're not doing anything then they'll be punished.
If nothing was said you just say there was no warning, you were just kicked, and they'll look into it as an abuse of the kick system.

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

Lol, I've never been kicked justly.
The kicks I have received were because I was calling out bad/lazy players.
This issue isnt rampant.
You are probably playing very badly.

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Stop trying to insult me here! I dont be friendly anymore. The last time i was friendly i had got banned here for violating the forum guidelines.

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Originally Posted by Lokier

Then record / copy and paste anything they say to you and put it into your report. As long as you're not doing anything then they'll be punished.
If nothing was said you just say there was no warning, you were just kicked, and they'll look into it as an abuse of the kick system.

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I had stoped playing my tank now. My ban was proving they give a sh...

Just preventing kicking after 2nd boss may cause more people abandon the dungeon or kick others thoughtlessly in an early time, for they fear that they could do nothing after 2nd boss.
One thing necessary to add into kicking system, I think is one option to choose the kicking reason. The system offers several possible reasons, such as DPS too low, ignoring dungeon mechanisms, poor healing, etc (just for instance, I do not mean such people really deserve kicking)
The voting initiator should choose that, then other voters would see the reason and decide yes or no.
When kicking finished, the one who gets kicked can also receive a system message, telling the reason.

I think seeing the reason behind your kick would actually benefit everyone involved. "I was kicked for harassment? But I never said anything!" is a valid reason to report kick abuse.

Although, Lokier is correct.
Even if it was that Androir was "playing badly," there are far more diplomatic methods than jumping straight onto the kick button. It's after attempting diplomacy and failing to establish a dialogue about the problem that a kick should be put forth.

I mean if someone calmly states you DPS could be better with a different rotation, and your reaction is to violently lash out or stop attacking all together, you should be kicked.

If someone calls you a something akin to a piece of garbage for having low DPS, then kick THEM. Immediately. Don't even toy with them. Remove the toxicity!

Yes. And the reason system already gets abused. At my point of view only a punishement for abusing can help. And why they click yes anways if they dont know why?

/edit: i dont have got this problem at my healer char at all. No matter if i fail So it must be a problem with cyber stalkers, which mistake me for another similar named guy or which are just hating my free company for being better then their poor lifes in mothers cellar.

Honestly with no chat logs or proof, it really is your word against them. We have seen quite a few people complain about being kicked only to later find in the "proof" that they themselves were the issue.

And exactly there my auto "monitoring" - suggestion is taking this job.
Ok it can be changed. basicaly every numbers can be changed. Also ideas can be added to this and details can be refined to a perfect result. Like the anti Bot tools already do.
But it can not stay like it is at the time.
I had took part/brainstormed at Wildstar alpha 1 and at many more alphas/betas/open betas whatever. A good system is in need of punishements for acting against the system. But no draconic ones for accidents or so. Thats why my low starting suggestions.

And a idea can grow at the comunity to a successfull product.

Oh, I totally misread the title I came in expecting some kind of anti-Rick Rolling rant because someone in-game rick-rolled them...

I need better glasses.

No problem. Starting a project at an comunity also can be missunderstood. Especialy if you hadnt picked the smartest title or a project name.

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Originally Posted by Androir

No problem. Starting a project at an comunity also can be missunderstood. Especialy if you hadnt picked the smartest title or a project name.

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I do agree though that kicking players who are trolling (griefing) a group is definitely a desirable option, but I suspect it would be mis-used enough to be a nuisance as well.

Sorry. It was not meant to kick players which are trolling the group. It is meant to avoid that players are being kicked by troll groups.
Trolling the group can be included to and be punished with stat - but thats another case and needs more prove.

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Originally Posted by Androir

At my point of view only a punishement for abusing can help

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It's rough to judge by system whether it's abused. Situations are flexible in teams. How does sys judge a kicking as abusing? By how frequently they do? Probably not, for some abusing is due to ridiculous reasons.
Kicking sys in FF14 is more limited, compared with MMOs in which leaders can immediately kick.
In team play, a most important thing is how you communicate. You can't leave everything to a "fair sys" to deal with. The utmost a sys can do, is making info clearer: who (name of initiator), for what, how many follow, how many against. Then you can debate.
Do you notice what rule it follows in team argument? Whether punishment on the ones leave halfway or kick voting, sys stands for the majority. It can't be absolutely fair.The abusing punishment can neither help. To the opposite, if a sys function makes the majority feel troublesome, the most possible result is losing players.

No normal one has got this much of bad luck with random players. And it is already explained: the time cd isnt enough. they still abuse it and go on. idk which is the best option. but after a time it will be a filter. Say a kicks /gametime statistic which can make it working.
Also the chat log can be automatic filtered for insults. only a few of cases are in need of personal review then. Alone the x min/hours/days stats - will make some players thinking about their way, how they work together with the group etc.
Ok this is extreme.. in other games they get ban alone for this. But i wanted a feature with no ban etc. Sure. any suggestions are welcome. Even if we re write my original idea complete. But something has to be done without immense costs for the company.

Stopped reading half way through since your text is too difficult to understand. I suggest proofreading after such an amount. This just looks like a hasted vent in the heat of an angry moment, without a care to make the post even clear.

Sorry if i am to fast. English isnt my native language. If i shall split the text for better reading then tell me please.
And yes: this stuff is verry complicated it needs a own alogarhytm.

/edit: yes. i was angry about being mobbed/trolled ingame. And about other stuff here..
Best quote: "He is a Troll. Kick him!" Variated in about 20 different but similar chatlines.

Insults are a no go. And meanwhile end of line for me.

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Originally Posted by Androir

Sorry if i am to fast. English isnt my native language. If i shall split the text for better reading then tell me please.
And yes: this stuff is verry complicated it needs a own alogarhytm.

/edit: yes. i was angry about being mobbed/trolled ingame. And about other stuff here..
Best quote: "He is a Troll. Kick him!" Variated in about 20 different but similar chatlines.

Insults are a no go. And meanwhile end of line for me.

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Hi guy, here is another English learner...let's pray that our words have not made others confused too much:cool:

In 2,567 completed dungeons and raids I have never been kicked from anything.


This immediately makes me question what is happening on the other side of your story. Duty finder is randomized. Players aren't inherently "out to get you". It sounds like some of your venting on these forums has resulted in temporary bans from the game. One might say your personality or performance is providing reasons for groups to kick you. The majority of Vote Kicks happen to AFK, Offline, or Toxic players. If you were Vote Kicked for none of these reasons then report them and move on. It's such a rare occurrence that doesn't require additional attention.

Take your meds.

I say in response to

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Originally Posted by Androir

edit: i dont have got this problem at my healer char at all. No matter if i fail So it must be a problem with cyber stalkers, which mistake me for another similar named guy or which are just hating my free company for being better then their poor lifes in mothers cellar.

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There is no conspiracy of people stalking or harassing you. Judging by the way you freak out at seemingly innocent or well-meaning comments, I'm not surprised you're getting kicked from instances.

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Originally Posted by Galactimus

In 2,567 completed dungeons and raids I have never been kicked from anything.

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Same here. Well, different dungeon amount anyways :p

Androir, if you are being kicked so often. There is only one common denominator, you.
GM's get paid for their work and it gets checked every once in a while. It's a job, they have midterm reviews just the same as we do in real life.
All instances I have had run ins with GM's they were: professional, polite, friendly and helpful and not at all "Out to get someone".

A friend of mine seriously did get harassed and we asked for GM intervention. (She was 14 and the guy was saying a lot of sexually obscene things he wanted to do to her against her will).
We found out afterwards that the guy was banned for a month and if he ever contacted her again he'd be perma banned.
We provided chat logs as proof and reported the moment it happened.

The options you give are more likely to be abused.

The only thing I semi-agree with is to have the name of the person whom initiated to votekick to show. Then you know whom to report if it gets abused. However at the same time it makes it easier for the kicked person to harass the person whom kicked.

Keep in mind, a majority vote is also required to kick someone. Seeing as you're talking about raids, this means 5 out of 8 people must agree to kick you. One person might have initiated to kick, but the majority agreed with it.

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Originally Posted by Nerael

A friend of mine seriously did get harassed and we asked for GM intervention. (She was 14 and the guy was saying a lot of sexually obscene things he wanted to do to her against her will).
We found out afterwards that the guy was banned for a month and if he ever contacted her again he'd be perma banned.

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Only a month ban ? oO
Whaou, it should have been a perma ban direct + report to the autorities, especially if he did say so knowing she was minor, in most country, those kind a "words" are against the law and taken very seriously

I haven't been kicked for this or really ever. Have I kicked others out? Yes for being AFK, wanting to be carried or just being a jerk to everyone in the party. I've dropped from groups too and just took the penalty because I don't want to deal with jerks in parties especially ones that basically tell me to go kill myself etc.

Now I wouldn't want the name revealed because that can lead to harassing that particular person and it's just adding to the drama. If they add something like that then I want a list of the housing about to be demo'd along with the count down clock opened to the public but we're aren't going to see that happen. What should be available is the ability to blacklist those you were in group with to avoid being grouped with them ever again. I'd be for that.

I've been kicked unjustly, once.

I made what I considered to be a helpful suggestion for improvement to someone who was struggling, and the conversation spiraled downward. I was kicked for trolling even though I never intended to insult anyone, never said anything really bad, never did anything that should have warranted it.... but I assume the other three people in the dungeon were friends, and perceived my suggestion as an attack. And booted me.

I fumed about it for a few minutes before deciding to move on. No skin off my nose. Sucks to be them, stuck without a healer until they can get a replacement.

Other times, I've told parties to kick me if my connection wibbles out, because there's a thunderstorm or something going on.

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Originally Posted by Tint

...a debuff wich reduces your stats for two days if you kick 5 people a day? that's insane. can you even kick 5 people a day? there is a long cooldown for the kick feature already in place...

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It's four hours. So you could in theory start a vote-kick on up to six people a day.

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Originally Posted by Nerael

Keep in mind, a majority vote is also required to kick someone. Seeing as you're talking about raids, this means 5 out of 8 people must agree to kick you. One person might have initiated to kick, but the majority agreed with it.

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Since the person being kicked doesn't vote, a majority would be 4 out of 7 people.

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Originally Posted by Celef

Only a month ban ? oO
Whaou, it should have been a perma ban direct + report to the autorities, especially if he did say so knowing she was minor, in most country, those kind a "words" are against the law and taken very seriously

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That requires a heavy amount of backdoor work that crosses legal lines in itself (to make a report, the GM would need to have access to a lot of personal information, for one) and different states, let alone countries, have vastly different laws on this and methods to report it.

That why it's almost never escalated to authorities when it's online only.

Is this like.. A fan fiction or something?

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Take your meds.

I say in response to



There is no conspiracy of people stalking or harassing you. Judging by the way you freak out at seemingly innocent or well-meaning comments, I'm not surprised you're getting kicked from instances.

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Sorry for late response. originaly i didnt wanted to continue this thread. But i had a reason, why i had freaked out.. like you wrote.. here. I dont tell any details but the one i had written. and in dungeos i am the happy guy for normal. sometimes i make some funny jokes. not about players. but the agressionlvl at some others is verry high. and i had seen samples of stalked players already so i wouldnt wonder at all.
/edit: i had my reason, why i had wrote this 2 posts. verry good reasons.

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Originally Posted by Dragon_Sanders

Hi guy, here is another English learner...let's pray that our words have not made others confused too much:cool:

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hello :). sorry for my late response. :).