As we all know, with the recent addition of the Materia system... raids and many NMs drop loot that people no longer feel is desirable because it is so much easier to get a crafted piece of gear and then toss some Materia into it and have it be better than the U/U gear anyway.
Now... clearly the folks at Square want crafters to stay relevant. It is a delicate balance because if raid gear is on par with Materia'd gear then there's little reason to pay the high prices for the relevant Materia when you can run a dungeon and not pay a dime. Of course, that'd only be the case if they weren't careful in their implementation of some method to keep the U/U items on par.
This is a thread where we can post ideas on how to resolve what some see as an issue.
Personally, I feel this could very easily be resolved by adding (repeatable) sub-quests to the raids based on completing certain objectives in the dungeon (killing a certain number of enemies, speed of completion, so on and so forth) and on completion of each of these quests you are able choose one item (items would vary by the quest) from the dungeon. With the implementation of these sub-quests they should also allow Materia to be inserted into U/U gear however starting from the very first Materia it should already be considered forbidden Materia craft and the item should then have a chance to break. Of course they'd have to add a new Method for crafters to add Materia to gear (or force players to level their own crafts to put anything into U/U gear) for this to work out completely but I feel that this would revitalize the raid content while still keeping crafted gear relevant for the vast majority of the playerbase and that seemed to be the direction the folks at Square want things to head in based on my understanding of the initial descriptions of the system.
Anyway, what are your ideas FFXIV forum?
Materia, U/U and You
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11-14-2011, 06:55 AMCharismaticMateria, U/U and You
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11-14-2011, 06:58 AMAnonymoose
I think a key problem here is a lack of balance (as is so often the case with Square Enix). From Yoshida-san's interviews, I took away the message that the system was supposed to work like this:
Below Average - Craftables
Cheap and easy; don't have access to the materia yet, or someone to socket it for you. You get by, and barely - currently putting in the work to get somewhere, so not outright rejected, but if bad at your job as well you might be the target of some judgment.
Average - Single-Socketed Materia-Enhanced Craftables
Gets you from Point-A to Point-B; this gear won't turn any heads towards or away from you. As long as you're good at your job and you actually perform it, no one will notice what you're wearing. You won't be held back, but you won't stand out in the crowd.
Above Average - U/U Reward Gear
Better than average, this gear is a reward for time spent grinding special events, such as dungeons, raids, etc. BETTER than single socket, but NOT AS GOOD as multisocket, this gear cannot be augmented with materia; it is the standard option for hard-working endgamers.
Optimal - Multi-Socketed Materia-Enhanced Craftables
For those with nearly unlimited time and resources; the 'Elites'. Those with the time can craft until they reach their desired HQ, then convert the failed attempts to materia with which to socket it into perfection. This allows for the elite to maintain something "Better" than everyone else, but still allows hard-to-obtain gear (inferior to the elites purposes) to fall to hard-working members of the Linkshell.
However,
This isn't the case at all. Single socket materia outshines U/U by far, unsocketed craftables work just fine, and anyone who's managed to double-socket is pretty much a God.
In my opinion, the solution is to...
Drastically alter the stats of existing U/U gear to be more up-to-date in the overall scheme of things. Most of the craftable gear is currently undergoing this process (notice that most of the Dated items don't have their undated counterparts back yet?) so HOPEFULLY the U/U gear is getting some silent polish as well.
I'd be really excited to see the system I outlined above in place. IMHO, single-slotted NQ craftables (Average Tier) should be relatively cheap, easy to get, and suit players purposes just fine as long as they succeed at their jobs. It opens the door for proportionate levels of esteem for earning U/U gear, but doesn't close the door on, "Look at all the time and money that went into that set..." god-socketed craftables. At the same time, the desire for said materia and demand by players who prefer to remain average tier where possible (the usual player, light wallet, but still fully workable) will keep the market on the craftables in constant motion.
Just my input; as usual, I think the problem is bad balancing. When is it not in SE? Even XI is still getting adjustment tweaks for things we knew we off-kilter YEARS ago. The main difference is that in XIV, Square Enix is listening. I applaud Yoshi-P and his team's hard work and hope this type of communication stays throughout the game's entire existence - hopefully we can iron out the wrinkles faster as a team. -
11-14-2011, 07:50 AMBrannigan
Crafted < Single Slot < U/U = Multi-slot < Slotted U/U
Restrict U/U to single slots with no chance of failure. Keep perfect Tier IV materia (70 hp, 20 stat, etc) fairly rare. Having U/U materia-able makes it so crafted items still need to be pumped out so that they can be turned into materia for when people replace gear. Multi-slotted crafted stuff should be decent but U/U + materia should win out. Top-line gear shouldn't be won through a slot machine. -
11-14-2011, 07:58 AMDoctorMog
I'm with Brannigan.
Let us put 1 materia into U/U items. -
11-14-2011, 08:10 AMDGMart
Or just give us stats/ auto abilities you can't get from materia. I.e. Auto refresh, double attack, haste.
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11-14-2011, 08:16 AMBranniganWell, Ideally it'd be a combination. Something likeQuote:
Originally Posted by DGMart
Knight's Cuirass (u/u)
100 def
15 vit
"Phalanx" +1
1 materia slot
vs
Black Iron Cuirass (Crafted)
100 def
20 vit
multiple slots -
11-14-2011, 08:28 AMRauQuote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
Crafted < Single Slot < U/U < Slotted U/U <= Multishot
IMO the risk/reward factor is what makes the Multi-slot so sought after. It should be left up to chance.
When I see a 200+ATK Cobalt Haubergeon +3, I should literally be thinking "Holy ****ing **** Batman" -
11-14-2011, 08:34 AMJinko
I'd be happy to see all NM's and dungeon bosses drop rare crafting items, this way people can either go in gather the items to:-
1. Craft items for themselves and others
2. Get someone they know to craft their items for them
3. Sell on the marketplace.
Dunegon and raid crafting items would be unique so that players couldn't over farm them.
This would obviously mean that no gear would be untradable but it could still be unique and have several tiers of rarity.
Obviously you would get:-
White named items - Standard crafted
Green named items - Dungeon crafted items
Blue named Items - Raid crafted items.
All these items could be materia'd as normal and the dev team could spend more time balancing gear/stats based on rarity instead of worrying about offending crafters or battlers.
Gatherers could get their own end game content where they could gather unique items to assist with crafting. -
11-14-2011, 08:51 AMquantumsaint
My idea for U/U items is to have them synth into the same materia every time. This way the stat maxers can farm Darkhold or NMs to get the materia they want, instead of playing roulette and wasting tons of gil trying to make a specific kind of materia. For example, the Ascetic's Gear that drops from Toto-Rak, have that turn into rank 31 Intelligence materia. Then if a mage wanted more INT, he or she could run Toto-Rak with a friend to try and get the drop, then grind spiritbind until it it's ready to convert. Now you have the intelligence materia you wanted instead of lifethirst or something else. Casuals can still enjoy random materia while the hardcore have the means to get the exact builds that they want.
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11-14-2011, 09:07 AMAnonymoose
I think it'd be ridiculous to allow single sockets on U/U items. I mean, I can see where it would get people to quit their bitching - but that's not really the goal here. The goal is a system that makes sense and gives options.
#1) Yoshida-san stated that he wanted people who had the time and drive to customize with materia while leaving the door open for players who didn't find that process enjoyable to dedicate their ambitions towards the U/U gear. Even a single socket on U/U disrupts his core materia philosophy.
#2) Craftable items suit multiple jobs. For example, we'll just use the two easiest: Cloth items (CON/THM) and heavy armor (LNC, GLA, and MRD). While these have base stats that suit things all of the above would WANT, the sockets for materia allow it to be customized to your role. Heavy armor with DEF? GLA gets to socket VIT while LNC gets to socket STR. That's the point. U/U items are already specialized towards roles; it's just a little unbalanced and ambiguous post-materia, which is exactly why I'd like to see that balance restored with some serious polish to the U/U system.
#3) What part of UNIQUE says customizable? Unique says "One of a Kind" - take it or leave it, it is what it is. If you could socket a U/U, what would even be the point, logically? People just want to be able to collect their e-peen and customize it, too. IMO, that's just overindulgence and defeats the entire point. Untradable, sure. Unique/Untradable? No sense, IMHO. -
11-14-2011, 09:11 AMquantumsaint
To clarify my idea, I wouldn't want to be able to add materia to U/U, just to be able to convert them.
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11-14-2011, 09:13 AMAnonymooseThat I'd be fine with; it's even more logical than the alternatives. The only option you have for U/U's is to throw them away when you're done - and in a Post-Materia game I think that's kind of stupid - at least as, if not more stupid than putting a socket slot on them would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumsaint
If someone's willing to lose it, they should be able to lose it proactively. -
11-14-2011, 09:47 AMBrannigan
I guess it's a different in philosophy. I think that the best items should be rare because they require skill and experience to obtain, not because the successful synth rate is low.
In other words, what can you do to improve your success rate at attaching forbidden materia? Get better crafting gear (Improve the character)
What can you do to improve your success rate at defeating a boss? Get better gear (improve the character) or get better at the mechanics of the fight (improve the player)
Because of that I think that drops should give the best items. In order to make crafted gear still useful (in a sense) to players who are getting high end items from drops, I think they should be able to attach materia to U/U. I don't really care about the word "unique" as all it really means is you can only have one of them.
If U/U gear should be the best (which I agree with), then in order to keep materia useful U/U gear needs materia slots.
To me the idea of having Forbidden Craftables be optimal is completely ridiculous because that's entirely just playing a slot machine. -
11-14-2011, 10:19 AMViridianaI would actually kinda like to see the top-top of the line be U/U raid drops making U/U items of greatness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
That notwithstanding, though, they've already shown that crafted Unique items can be melded. As such, I really wish they'd go back to the old system of NMs/bosses dropping items that're used to make Unique slotable gear. This keeps crafters in on the end-game while still making it worth while to actually do raids and such. . .