Suggestions change DRK a bit

>A bit I said.
>A bit he said.
DRK Changelog

Dark Arts removed.
Blood Weapon available to Grit
Dark Dance and Dark Mind no longer require Darkside
Darkside mana consumption per second tripled while activated.

Darkside now enhances some abilities while activated.
Includes: Power Slash, Souleater, Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, Dark Passenger, Dark Dance, Dark Mind
New enhancement: Scourge - Increase damage taken by 10%, Delirium - Inflict Silence for 5s.
Enhancement shift: Power Slash - Increased Enmity removed for +100 Potency for a total of 400 combo potency

Skill shift: Dark Dance - When Parrying, counterattacks the parried damages.
Buff: Salted Earth - Inflicts Heavy on foes inside.


Thought?

I don't think it'll ever happen I'm afraid. Especially since they want DA to be DRK's gimmick.

Sounds boring.

no DA? how does cns work after this fix? im cool with abysall drain always giving hp back though. My other thoughts is that drk dps would skyrocket due to everything being da-boosted without the 30% mp used, With bw usable in grit, with bp avvessible youd probably never run oomp. but offtanking? maybe.

For all the problems with its design that DRK has, Dark Arts really isn't one of them.

What I would kill for, however, is Salted Earth being a PBAoE. Having to actually place it is an infuriating and sloppy process, especially since you'll almost always end up just dropping it in front of you in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

For all the problems with its design that DRK has, Dark Arts really isn't one of them.

What I would kill for, however, is Salted Earth being a PBAoE. Having to actually place it is an infuriating and sloppy process, especially since you'll almost always end up just dropping it in front of you in the first place.

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There is macro you can make to where it puts it down right on the mob you're currently targeting. I'm at work so I don't have it on me, but you can Google it. That's where I found the one I use.

On topic, DA is fine imo, but I wouldn't mind Dark Mind being a flat 30% buff instead of wasting a DA on it. Delirium I think could use a tweak. The silence is a good idea, but I'd almost prefer it to be a DoT.

Just want to say that while yes salted earth can be macroed, not all enemies are valid targets. (Ie. The knight/dps check in thordan ex that doesn't move causes an error with the macro).

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Dark Arts removed.

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Why? Dark Arts is part of what gives the job its pacing, all the MP costs and returns are designed around it. Every Dark Arts ability has an occasion where you would or would not want to DA it.
-Souleater: While leveling, alternating between DA and non-DA Souleater is your best MP-to-DPS efficient rotation once aggro has been established before getting Delirium.
-Dark Dance: DA on trash w/o Blood Price, non-DA on bosses.
-Dark Mind: DA during progression, non-DA to save MP once attacks are survivable without it.
-Dark Passenger: see Dark Dance
-Carve and Spit: DA on single target, non-DA during AoE.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Blood Weapon available to Grit

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If people take the time to understand DRK's design instead of mindlessly parroting back Xeno's mogtalk soundbites, its clear that Blood Weapon is our OT stance in cooldown form. Allowing it in Grit is akin to allowing Deliverance and Defiance, or SwO/ShO to be used simultaneously.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Dark Dance and Dark Mind no longer require Darkside

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This along with other changes you have both reduces the penalty and skill ceiling for DRK's playing poorly and encourages enabling/disabling Darkside which should be on 100% of the time that you are in combat.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Darkside mana consumption per second tripled while activated.

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Terrible design choice IMO, although I see that you're trying to balance this around not having DA anymore. It just makes the job easy and boring.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Darkside now enhances some abilities while activated.
Includes: Power Slash, Souleater, Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, Dark Passenger, Dark Dance, Dark Mind

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This again implies toggling Darkside off and on when it should be on pretty much all the time.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

New enhancement: Scourge - Increase damage taken by 10%, Delirium - Inflict Silence for 5s.

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@Scourge - RIP any tank comp without a DRK w/ a 100% uptime Trick Attack.
@Delirium - DRK does not need a Silence. Its very difficult to have a party comp that doesn't have at least one silence.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Enhancement shift: Power Slash - Increased Enmity removed for +100 Potency for a total of 400 combo potency

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All this does is make the decision between Delirium and Power Slash harder, when it doesn't need to be. Its also still 100% inferior to DA Souleater.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Skill shift: Dark Dance - When Parrying, counterattacks the parried damages.

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Needless, and a huge boost to DRK MT DPS, further locking us into MTing.

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Originally Posted by Fateborn

Buff: Salted Earth - Inflicts Heavy on foes inside.

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There's a reason they don't give tanks PvE heavy effects, because it screws with positioning. So "no" to this.

I don't think these are any issues that need to be addressed. Dark Arts helps DRK actually stand out from the other tanks, and feels good. If your MP management is good you get to go edgelord and power up something.

Your idea for Scourge kind of already exist, but SE decided to lock it behind PVP. Allowing Sole Survivor to make the target weaker would make it not only more useful but more deserving of its CD.
Salted Earth doesn't need heavy; its the strongest ground placed AoE in the game. I wouldn't mind if unleash had its PVP effect as well, but since its out main aoe enmity spell I doubt we'd see its use in pve content.
Your idea for Parry needs to be universal. Dark Dance is honestly good as it is. It really shines in dungeon content with Dark Passenger for a ton of dodging. We just need Parry to actually scale better and have more use. That 20 percent should be what pushes DRK to a near perfect parry rate if we prioritize parry.

I personally believe the biggest and most important change DRK could get is on Grit. Grit holds this class back so much. Without it we lose out meager sustain, with it we lose our TP and damage increase abilities. It needs to get rid of those gates.

The only other small change I would love is to get rid of the "outside sources cannot replenish MP while under Darkside".

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

If people take the time to understand DRK's design instead of mindlessly parroting back Xeno's mogtalk soundbites, its clear that Blood Weapon is our OT stance in cooldown form. Allowing it in Grit is akin to allowing Deliverance and Defiance, or SwO/ShO to be used simultaneously.

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I wouldn't mind seeing Blood Weapon gain an alternative function while using Grit. I don't like the idea of having dead skills on my bar (it works for WAR since its stances both come with analogous skills that can be easily macro'd to switch, but DRK just ends up with dead space), and I've no doubt that there's room to do something with it.

Additionally, I'd like to see Grit and the PLD stances come off the GCD. Stance-dancing is a pretty fun mechanic with WAR, and while the other tanks can do it decently, tying the stances to the GCD ends up really hurting the sense of pacing in a fight. It just doesn't feel right.

I agree DRK (and PLD) need changes, but the OP suggestions would suck all the fun out of DRK.

I'd prefer changes that make it easier for DRK to be more independent from the healer (looking at you living dead) and make it easier to spend more time out of grit.

Blood weapon: changed to a stance that cannot be active at the same time as grit. But half the effect (reduced MP return, 5% haste, 10% tp cost reduction). Because this would stop all the "let us use it in grit" whining as people would get that it's a dps stance not a cooldown.

Shadowskin: add dark arts effect to increase enmity while active (turning it into a short time grit). Because DRK and PLD need more enmity, WAR just trounces both of them in and out of tank stance on this front.

Shadow wall: add dark arts effect to add a 50 potency counterattack. Because as it is right now it's just a gimped sentinel. Vengeance has a counterattack and shorter cooldown, sentinel reduces 10% more damage.

Souleater and abyssal drain: drain 50% of damage dealt as hp (without grit/dark arts). Soul devourer trait changed to increases absorb to 100% while in grit. Abyssal drain dark arts effect changed to absorb 100%. Because it drives me nuts that these clearly drain based skills don't drain without special circumstances!! And DRK has a lack of self healing compared to the other tanks out of tank stance.

Plunge: add a small knockback, just enough to interrupt an enemy cast (similar to holmgang). Because DRK lacks interrupt capabilities compared to the other tanks having only 1 stun and nothing else.

Walking dead: adds 100% absorb hp to all attacks, stacks with bloodbath and souleater/abyssal drain. Because living dead sucks when you have to rely on your healer and can't use it for its anti-death purpose without one.

i can get on board with these suggestions, i really wish drk had more lifetap/self sustainability than they currently do

in my opinion the other 2 tanks need to depend more for from healers, if all jobs become more self efficient then why we have a trinity, DRK is fine in most axpects except OT, i hope the next expansion they make me go more tanking and more mechanics around tanking and trade off, make me run out off cds SE.

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Originally Posted by shao32

in my opinion the other 2 tanks need to depend more for from healers, if all jobs become more self efficient then why we have a trinity, DRK is fine in most axpects except OT, i hope the next expansion they make me go more tanking and more mechanics around tanking and trade off, make me run out off cds SE.

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You can really see a difference when you duel the other 2 tanks(similar ilvl), i dont find any problems with tanks having a small level of self sustain, in case healers go down, I really dont But I do feel like they should have a similar amount of bursr self healing which they currently dont

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Originally Posted by shao32

in my opinion the other 2 tanks need to depend more for from healers

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DRK just needs their equivalent of Clemency/Equilibrium in 4.0, I wouldn't want it to go the opposite direction, and I hope it has its own Pros/Cons befitting the DRK theme (Guillotine <3 /pray)

solo would appreciate it. DRK is the last tank job I'd bring to solo hunts for example. Though if someone has solo'd stolas or other HW hunts soloDRK let me know (but there is no counter to Nightmare for DRK I assume), I could give it another go, but I failed to Unkheti back @ like 210ilvl once and the shame ugh (SHAME!), never again ...

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

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With the exception of the DA effects to Shadowskin and Shadow Wall (if those abilities get any changes I feel they should be independent of DA, as we already DA things constantly and it'd be more abilities to potentially pull Mana, which could upset the balance of building/maintaining/spending it) and the Plunge effect which is kinda iffy IMO (giving a tank a knockback seems really counterproductive) I actually think these are decent ideas. Just throwing it out there as I almost never see DRK suggestions that aren't incredibly poorly thought out.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

With the exception of the DA effects to Shadowskin and Shadow Wall (if those abilities get any changes I feel they should be independent of DA, as we already DA things constantly and it'd be more abilities to potentially pull Mana, which could upset the balance of building/maintaining/spending it) and the Plunge effect which is kinda iffy IMO (giving a tank a knockback seems really counterproductive) I actually think these are decent ideas. Just throwing it out there as I almost never see DRK suggestions that aren't incredibly poorly thought out.

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I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on dark arts. I love the dark arts mechanic and want to see it do something to more things in DRKs arsenal to add more versatility and variety to its use.

As for plunge. I'm not talking huge blank/fluid aura knockback, literally just a tiny shove so it barely moves. My general thought was Levi ex. If DRK existed when that was relevant content it would be the only tank that wouldn't be able to deal with that AoE hysteria add. Where PLD could stun lock and WAR could stun the first and holmgang to drag it to stop the cast on the second, a DRK would only have low blow and then nothing to follow up. + if you leap across a room and slam a great sword into someone you'd expect them to stagger a bit.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

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i alwais belive clemency and equilibrium was "hum why you add this to a tank?" whe have chocobos for this type of conten to support our role flaws, i think they need to improve more the companions intead to make every job self sufficient.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

I wouldn't mind seeing Blood Weapon gain an alternative function while using Grit. I don't like the idea of having dead skills on my bar (it works for WAR since its stances both come with analogous skills that can be easily macro'd to switch, but DRK just ends up with dead space), and I've no doubt that there's room to do something with it.

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I think Blood Weapon should be our Bloodbath while in Grit. DRK could use a steroid buff in Tank Stance and I think Blood weapon having the haste and HP drain would fill that role, and make DRK more interesting to play in general.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Walking dead: adds 100% absorb hp to all attacks, stacks with bloodbath and souleater/abyssal drain. Because living dead sucks when you have to rely on your healer and can't use it for its anti-death purpose without one.

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I really like this idea you have no idea how frustrating it can be when you pop LD and you have to rely on a slow/bad healer that can't top you off and you die. +1 for this

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Originally Posted by shao32

in my opinion the other 2 tanks need to depend more for from healers, if all jobs become more self efficient then why we have a trinity, DRK is fine in most axpects except OT, i hope the next expansion they make me go more tanking and more mechanics around tanking and trade off, make me run out off cds SE.

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Drk really doesn't have a self heal variant to Equilibrium or Clemency which is why for solo play/ PvP or even in clutch situations where a self heal could make a difference between a wipe in a dungeon or relieve stress from the healers, DA+ Soul Eater is 1/4 of any of the other tank heals. It'd be nice if DA + Soul Eater was better but not too strong and I don't know how they'd balance that the only option I can see is put a debuff on DA + SE but make it give you a debuff where you can't benefit from DA + SE for 45-1 minute bringing it in line with other tanks self heals and making the old DA + SE what it regularly heals for.

As a Drk main I feel our self heals are just lacking compared to War and Pld.

I do like the idea of making Living Dead better. Absorbing damage dealt as HP during Walking Dead would be amazing. I don't even bother popping Living Dead unless I have a competent healer because I know I'll just be Dead Dead after 10 seconds.

I disagree with removing Dark Arts. That not only screws over DA+Carve and Spit, but it also screws over the DA+Souleater combo (which I use frequently), AND DA+Abysmal Drain, which I use on large pulls to heal myself and not stress out my healer so much (and also to help compensate if the healer is not that great of a healer). I do wish DA+Souleater was a little more potent for healing--like maybe buff the Souleater healing trait when combined with DA by 150-200% or something. If my friends and I ever want to 2-man content on our tanks, I can't ever MT because I can't heal myself like WAR, or even PLD. We have to do T4 farms with WAR+DRK combo, and I can't heal myself enough to offset the incoming damage.

I wish they'd take Grit off of the GCD and make it an oGCD skill like the other tank stances are with a 5-10 second cooldown (like Defiance and Darkside--and really, any other stance in this game--Cleric Stance and Wanderer's Minuet, looking at you).

I would really love for Dark Dance to offer counterattacks. I'd sign a petition just for that.

3 things:

- I'd really like to see something more reliable with a short cd for physical tankbusters (so change dark dance or change reprisal so it's possible to be up 100% of the time, which would already help)
- DA Dark Mind shouldn't boost the effect but instead give the pt a 10% magic damage shield. it would stack with the normal dark mind effect so we would end up having almost the same buff but also adding some more utility to the drk (i wouldn't mind a higher recast in exchange)
- switch souleater and delirium potencies and make souleater absorb 150% of the damage dealt. SE should be the standard combo as it fits the job better imo. delirium on the other hand should be only used if needed