[dev1206] Upper tiers of an action (such as Fire II and Fire III) will be abolished.

This is the worst idea they had so far. I don't understand this choice at all.

What if i do not want to get hate and instead of casting Fire IV, cast Fire III?

It is essential for any casting class to be able to choose the spell potency and not go METEOOOOOOOOOOOR! every cast creating so much hate you die every time you cast it.

I am baffled, i don't know what they are thinking this will do to improve the gameplay.

Please re-consider this SE, it's does not make sense unless you give us a way to influence the potency of the spell.

While I 100% agree,

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-be-abolished.....

There is a thread, with the exact same title...............

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Originally Posted by viion

While I 100% agree,

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-be-abolished.....

There is a thread, with the exact same title...............

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That thread is just whining about animations and visuals, something that does not matter at all at this point with 2.0 being a complete different engine.

What matters is how it works and how it affects game-play.

So it's not at all whiny that you're gonna have to learn to balance out your threat again?

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

This is the worst idea they had so far. I don't understand this choice at all.

What if i do not want to get hate and instead of casting Fire IV, cast Fire III?

It is essential for any casting class to be able to choose the spell potency and not go METEOOOOOOOOOOOR! every cast creating so much hate you die every time you cast it.

I am baffled, i don't know what they are thinking this will do to improve the gameplay.

Please re-consider this SE, it's does not make sense unless you give us a way to influence the potency of the spell.

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So, you're worried because casting a strong spell back to back to back will get you enmity. Your current solution to this is equipping and casting lower tier versions. You're worried because when they remove lower tiered versions you won't be able to control your enmity because you will be casting strong spells only?

I'm sorry, but did you just admit to having an obnoxiously trigger-happy nuking style? Pace yourself, lad.

P.S: More time between casting = more MP regen.

in the letter it mentions there will be casting combos and stuff to reduce enmity

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

This is the worst idea they had so far. I don't understand this choice at all.

What if i do not want to get hate and instead of casting Fire IV, cast Fire III?

It is essential for any casting class to be able to choose the spell potency and not go METEOOOOOOOOOOOR! every cast creating so much hate you die every time you cast it.

I am baffled, i don't know what they are thinking this will do to improve the gameplay.

Please re-consider this SE, it's does not make sense unless you give us a way to influence the potency of the spell.

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First of all you have a way to influence the potency of a spell. It is called buffs, you should use them.

Second, just because they are removing tiered versions of spells does not mean that there will be no variety in nuking spells for players to choose from based on enmity/mp/damage/elemental/casting time/buff availability/and cooldown considerations.

Maybe, and hopefully, their thoughts on this topic are that they would rather give players more refined, varied, and distinct options rather than simple tiered versions of the same spell. If you played mage in FFXIV currently, you would know that variety in casting is not a strong point of your average gameplay.

Though not the topic this goes for healing as well:

I'd rather we got more diversity in healing magic rather than tiered spells anyways if they are going that way.

Stuff like:

• Short cast, long cooldown, small/medium heals. (emergency heals)
• Long cast, high cost, large heals. (Powerful but limited cure bombs)
• Low cost, long cast, medium heals (efficient, but pre-meditated healing)
• HoT's (supplementary healing)
• etc. etc.

Cure 1/2/3 do this to an extent, but there could be more flexibility in healing strategy and tactics if they diversified the system rather than relying on tiered spells only.

i posted on the other thread. i see fire 1 fire 2 and fire 3, as trademark and very final fantasy, i can live with second wind and haymaker losing there tiers. but i don't think they should be doing this for spells

and i agree with the OP, mages are sposed to balance hate and MP cost. with damage/heals, and it really shows the difference between a good mage and a bad one. i'm sure they have something in mind for how spells affect hate with this new system. but i feel this is one that didn't need changing. i normally agree with the changes. but i do think this is a mistake

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Originally Posted by grandm

i posted on the other thread. i see fire 1 fire 2 and fire 3, as trademark and very final fantasy, i can live with second wind and haymaker losing there tiers. but i don't think they should be doing this for spells

and i agree with the OP, mages are sposed to balance hate and MP cost. with damage/heals, and it really shows the difference between a good mage and a bad one. i'm sure they have something in mind for how spells affect hate with this new system. but i feel this is one that didn't need changing. i normally agree with the changes. but i do think this is a mistake

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The problem with tiered spells is that they make setting your action bar convoluted when you have to spend points on different tiers of one spell, and those nukes are elemental meaning you potentially have to set a bar for every mob type you fight in order to be efficient.

You people talk like it is this in depth system currently that makes nuking in the game a total blast. Unfortunately, that is not the case. People use very little variety in nuking if they want to be half decent. Making the benefits of more spells distinct and thus deserving a more permanent slot on your action bar rather than just tiered spells will add depth to a system that currently lacks it.

I think the tiered spells being abolished is a good thing. In the past it was redundant, silly, and made unnecessary clutter. Increasing potency based on levels seems more logical. I'm sure Soughspeak and something for a THM will come in handy and may have lower recast timers.
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additionally... I have yet to see a youtube video showing a mage nuking a boss mob. I've always seen the mage with his weapon tucked away conserving MP, lifeless, and only distributing heals.

At least change the name of the spell after we hit a certain level. For instance, we learn Fire, but after, say, level 25, it automatically changes it's name to Fira or Fire II and the animation changes long with it. It would suck to see a THM cast just Fire at level 50. Especially considering that in Final Fantasy, higher forms of spells always get their names changed.

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Originally Posted by KamikazeMan

At least change the name of the spell after we hit a certain level. For instance, we learn Fire, but after, say, level 25, it automatically changes it's name to Fira or Fire II and the animation changes long with it. It would suck to see a THM cast just Fire at level 50. Especially considering that in Final Fantasy, higher forms of spells always get their names changed.

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Cast Fire > 500 damage
Cast Fire II > 500 damage

The text name of the spell makes it stronger apparently. I lol'd

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Cast Fire > 500 damage
Cast Fire II > 500 damage

The text name of the spell makes it stronger apparently. I lol'd

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Dude! Are you blind?! Look at the numbers you just posted! Fire II is clearly stronger!

http://www.startbreakingfree.com/wp-...936bac2051.jpg

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Dude! Are you blind?! Look at the numbers you just posted! Fire II is clearly stronger!

http://www.startbreakingfree.com/wp-...936bac2051.jpg

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Satin Ribbon, can I have it?

Her teeth in good shape, aside from the rest of her face.

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Originally Posted by Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

This is the worst idea they had so far. I don't understand this choice at all.

What if i do not want to get hate and instead of casting Fire IV, cast Fire III?

It is essential for any casting class to be able to choose the spell potency and not go METEOOOOOOOOOOOR! every cast creating so much hate you die every time you cast it.

I am baffled, i don't know what they are thinking this will do to improve the gameplay.

Please re-consider this SE, it's does not make sense unless you give us a way to influence the potency of the spell.

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I'm guessing just spirit dart it until its safe to cast.

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Originally Posted by grandm

i posted on the other thread. i see fire 1 fire 2 and fire 3, as trademark and very final fantasy, i can live with second wind and haymaker losing there tiers. but i don't think they should be doing this for spells

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FFVIII didn't use a I, II, III, IV system. They had Fire, Fira, Firaga.

On that note, I don't think we should complain about this until we see how Black Mage works. They could be the ones getting Fira/ga/ja, Thundara/ga/ja, Watera/ga/ja, etc.

Same with WHM getting Cura and Curaja.


Let's see how the new caster classes are going to operate before condemning the system.



EDIT: Plus we could see WHM getting a spell like Esuna to clear up status ailments instead of having a bunch of individual skills.

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Originally Posted by viion

While I 100% agree,

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l-be-abolished.....

There is a thread, with the exact same title...............

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And both are posted in the wrong forum, to boot.

I have no idea what you're whining about. Current spells share a recast timer with their lower tiers. There's no tier III elemental nukes, either... So it's basically the same thing, only you don't have to shuffle everything around once you get tier II nukes. Honestly, you still have tier I nukes equipped? lawl

At 1st i was upset after reading this, cuz i do like tiered heals for hate management, but then i continued reading and realised the combo system should be more than enough to compliment these changes. Plus the overall changes to spells will probably be as such that we will get new tools for hate management purposes. Stoneskin > cure combo -25% emnity cure > (new spell that lowers enmity) -25% emnity etc. Truth is you really cant complain about a system you havent used yet.

First thing that popped into my head was perhaps with universal spells, it will be easier/less hassle to enter into Level Capped or Level Sync situations so perhaps its a hint as to whats to come.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

The problem with tiered spells is that they make setting your action bar convoluted when you have to spend points on different tiers of one spell, and those nukes are elemental meaning you potentially have to set a bar for every mob type you fight in order to be efficient.

You people talk like it is this in depth system currently that makes nuking in the game a total blast. Unfortunately, that is not the case. People use very little variety in nuking if they want to be half decent. Making the benefits of more spells distinct and thus deserving a more permanent slot on your action bar rather than just tiered spells will add depth to a system that currently lacks it.

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Though I can agree here, They should have only costed 1 point equip anyways. Considering how useless they are on other classes.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

So, you're worried because casting a strong spell back to back to back will get you enmity. Your current solution to this is equipping and casting lower tier versions. You're worried because when they remove lower tiered versions you won't be able to control your enmity because you will be casting strong spells only?

I'm sorry, but did you just admit to having an obnoxiously trigger-happy nuking style? Pace yourself, lad.

P.S: More time between casting = more MP regen.

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sooo mages are supposed to sit around and wait like ffxi even moreso? bleh sounds really boring. There is a number of solutions, but the 15 action idea is killing most of those solutions.

I need to quote some of these posts post-1.20.

"MRD is nerfed guyz WTF"

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Originally Posted by Murugan

The problem with tiered spells is that they make setting your action bar convoluted when you have to spend points on different tiers of one spell, and those nukes are elemental meaning you potentially have to set a bar for every mob type you fight in order to be efficient.

You people talk like it is this in depth system currently that makes nuking in the game a total blast. Unfortunately, that is not the case. People use very little variety in nuking if they want to be half decent. Making the benefits of more spells distinct and thus deserving a more permanent slot on your action bar rather than just tiered spells will add depth to a system that currently lacks it.

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problem is this is also being promoted with a massive cut to the amount of available spells, so, most likely they wont get new interesting mechanics or spells more tailored to lower damage, but nothing at all. Cutting all of a mages abilities down to 15 leaves virtually no room for anything. i mean, tranquility profundity fast cast, spirit dart, that only leaves 11 more skills at all. doesnt leave much room for special skills.

i suppose they could add a skill with an instant cool down that lowers the potency, cost, and casting time (because you wasted time using the first skill) however thats one less spell, now your down to 10

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I need to quote some of these posts post-1.20.

"MRD is nerfed guyz WTF"

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the dude supposedly said the reason he is releasing these info is for feedback man, aka the point is for people to sound it out based on what he has released before even playing it.

Based on what he has presented here, it has some things to worry about, even if you like the overall idea, the execution seems a bit crazy.

hey it would be better if they had a test server, but thats not in his plans any time soon .

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Originally Posted by Physic

the dude supposedly said the reason he is releasing these info is for feedback man, aka the point is for people to sound it out based on what he has released before even playing it.

Based on what he has presented here, it has some things to worry about, even if you like the overall idea, the execution seems a bit crazy.

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Sure, I don't disagree with you there.

They are not doing anything special here, though.

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Originally Posted by Physic

hey it would be better if they had a test server, but thats not in his plans any time soon .

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(We're playing on the test servers, the only caveat being we get to keep the progress made for the real thing)

With at most 15 slots to place spells, you'd start running out of room quick if you had to shove in tiered spells, anyway. Most of the complaints being made here are solved with the Soughspeak ability.

Amongst personal attacks, strawman arguments and plain sillyness, there are a few good posts here. Let me be more precise in what i see would be a good solution:

1. Healers need to balance healing, it's absolutely essential for the job. Over curing is a waste of MP. Without the Tiers, healing can be done by a cure bot repeating the same cure every x seconds. Not very fun to play.

2. Give us a way to influence the potency, cost and casting time of a spell. Current abilities increase the potency, we need one to lower it. This will provide us with 3 Tiers, -50% < 100% > +50% Potency. I think i could see that working.

3. Skill chains sound like a neat idea to reduce the amount of hate generated. The problem with this is that it can fail, if it does not fail then you might as well implement #1.

Thanks,
Skyrant

Here is my bit to all this and Basic's they need to look at first then mess about with what work's all ready.

1.In link Shell , Able to see where people are simply lookimg in to ls (Basic) still not done at this time
2.Able to Find people Quickly and Easily (Basic) Still not done
3.Post to each other (Basic) still not Fixed since day 1
4.More story lines , Quest , Mission's ,and "Armour" or Armour Quest (Basic) still not done since day 1

I have touched here just some of the Basic's they need to fix long time ago ,Instead of this, we see the kind of stuff they changing and spending thier time doing that does not need to be done or is it Urgent. Im sure you all are able to add alot more to this little point's list I have put here.

The point im making is "Why Mess with stuff that is working fine and no urgency neened to do anything about it now" perhaps at later stage in game may be , tweak here and there , Why Now ?

And this is why releasing half of the info is not very smart SE.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

FFVIII didn't use a I, II, III, IV system. They had Fire, Fira, Firaga.

On that note, I don't think we should complain about this until we see how Black Mage works. They could be the ones getting Fira/ga/ja, Thundara/ga/ja, Watera/ga/ja, etc.

Same with WHM getting Cura and Curaja.


Let's see how the new caster classes are going to operate before condemning the system.



EDIT: Plus we could see WHM getting a spell like Esuna to clear up status ailments instead of having a bunch of individual skills.

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I'm late to the thread, but felt like commenting.
The 'Ra Ga Ja' additions were something since the start of FFs, but in translation it made no sense, and along limitations on spell names, they went with small words (bolt, fire, ice) with a number at the end.
Later they decided on a system to mimic the ra ga ja system set in place for the JP versions. which we now see as it is.