Thoughts, Concerns and Requests about the changes in 1.20

Parts of this sound great, others not so much...

[Concern]
Removal of tier spells: Hate management is going to be terrible...being forced to cast "cure III" instead of tossing out a cure I to keep the tank going. Forced into casting the strongest nukes instead of lighter nukes to keep off hate....

MP Cost: I haven't leveled DoM classes high enough for the higher tiers, but if the MP cost is different between tiers a mage won't be able to fall back to Fire when they don't have the MP for Fire II.

[Request]
Make traits learnable by individual classes, but let traits be equipped regardless of current class. Someone who trains to run fast doesn't become slow when doing another action, they still have the ability to run fast. Traits should be a reflection of knowledge gained from using a certain class, but should be "character-centric" instead of "class-centric". Just because it's learned from a certain class doesn't mean it should only be available while that class.

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Originally Posted by Jigg

Parts of this sound great, others not so much...

[Concern]
Removal of tier spells: Hate management is going to be terrible...being forced to cast "cure III" instead of tossing out a cure I to keep the tank going. Forced into casting the strongest nukes instead of lighter nukes to keep off hate....

MP Cost: I haven't leveled DoM classes high enough for the higher tiers, but if the MP cost is different between tiers a mage won't be able to fall back to Fire when they don't have the MP for Fire II.

[Request]
Make traits learnable by individual classes, but let traits be equipped regardless of current class. Someone who trains to run fast doesn't become slow when doing another action, they still have the ability to run fast. Traits should be a reflection of knowledge gained from using a certain class, but should be "character-centric" instead of "class-centric". Just because it's learned from a certain class doesn't mean it should only be available while that class.

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everyone is just gonna say that it enhances difficulty and thats what the game needs.
yet in reality all it does is hinder strategy options.
its all i see it as.

I agree with OP. These are some of my concerns too.

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[Concern]
Removal of tier spells: Hate management is going to be terrible...being forced to cast "cure III" instead of tossing out a cure I to keep the tank going. Forced into casting the strongest nukes instead of lighter nukes to keep off hate....

MP Cost: I haven't leveled DoM classes high enough for the higher tiers, but if the MP cost is different between tiers a mage won't be able to fall back to Fire when they don't have the MP for Fire II.

[Request]
Make traits learnable by individual classes, but let traits be equipped regardless of current class. Someone who trains to run fast doesn't become slow when doing another action, they still have the ability to run fast. Traits should be a reflection of knowledge gained from using a certain class, but should be "character-centric" instead of "class-centric". Just because it's learned from a certain class doesn't mean it should only be available while that class.

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Tiered Spells, in a game which has a limited number of actions that can be used, are a waste of space. There are more inventive and strategic ways to vary the spells than making a more potent version. We could have instant cast spells with a reduced potency. We could have spells with a longer cast time that has greater potency. I would take actual variety over tiered spells any day of the week.

There are abilities now which affect the potency of your next cast. I would like to see those given more reason to exist. Tierless spells accomplish that.

The traits being locked to a class is necessary to keep class roles separate. Why invite a PUG when a LNC does everything the PUG can do, but from a greater distance. Traits will add utility to each class, and allowing them to be cross-classed will only make everything more scrambled. We need identity, not homogeneity.

These changes are intended to add more teamwork and strategy to the game, and I think that if you thoroughly review today's announcement, you will see that they do just that.

My main concern is for healing. Cure and Cure II, Sacrifice and SacII all serve distinct roles, and each earned their place on my bar, with MP being what it is for healers.

They were already going to adjust the enmity of heals and we might get traits or combos to cancel out the enmity gain, so we would need to wait and see. There might also be new non-Cure methods of healing.

On multiple tiers of nukes, the current MP cost difference is literally 10 MP vs 20 MP, which would very very very rarely make a difference. The only reason I ever put tier 1's on my bar so I have something to spam while I wait on T2 recast times. If the potency and mp cost scales more prominently I would be able to pace myself better, not to mention combos could surface to battle enmity gain, MP costs, or increase potency. If you risk gaining hate you shouldn't be nuking, really.

Everything that Yoshida's team has done so far, has been well thought out and generally better for the game. I am sure they have a mechanize to deal with hate control. I would imagine a low recast magic potency ability would accomplish this. When people get use to it we will all go "wow i can't believe i managed all those different spell tiers, that was awful"

I share some of your concerns, OP. I keep several healing spells on my bar when I'm healing and I would sorely miss the lower tiers which take less MP and draw less hate.

Though I am trying to be optimistic and hope that the dev team has foreseen and planned for such issues. :)

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Originally Posted by Irondude

Everything that Yoshida's team has done so far, has been well thought out and generally better for the game. I am sure they have a mechanize to deal with hate control. I would imagine a low recast magic potency ability would accomplish this. When people get use to it we will all go "wow i can't believe i managed all those different spell tiers, that was awful"

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i'm glad you think the speed runs through the dungeons by not fighting mobs, forgetting how to put a piece of gear on because you put a color on it, and the ifrit loot systems are great. you did say everything.

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Originally Posted by Jigg

Parts of this sound great, others not so much...
[Request]
Make traits learnable by individual classes, but let traits be equipped regardless of current class. Someone who trains to run fast doesn't become slow when doing another action, they still have the ability to run fast. Traits should be a reflection of knowledge gained from using a certain class, but should be "character-centric" instead of "class-centric". Just because it's learned from a certain class doesn't mean it should only be available while that class.

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But then we loose part of the class individualism that they're trying to add because all classes can equip the same traits, just like we have now.

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Originally Posted by Jigg

Parts of this sound great, others not so much...

[Concern]
Removal of tier spells: Hate management is going to be terrible...being forced to cast "cure III" instead of tossing out a cure I to keep the tank going. Forced into casting the strongest nukes instead of lighter nukes to keep off hate....

MP Cost: I haven't leveled DoM classes high enough for the higher tiers, but if the MP cost is different between tiers a mage won't be able to fall back to Fire when they don't have the MP for Fire II.

[Request]
Make traits learnable by individual classes, but let traits be equipped regardless of current class. Someone who trains to run fast doesn't become slow when doing another action, they still have the ability to run fast. Traits should be a reflection of knowledge gained from using a certain class, but should be "character-centric" instead of "class-centric". Just because it's learned from a certain class doesn't mean it should only be available while that class.

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From another post I made (this was concerning nuke spells):

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I have no idea what you're whining about. Current spells share a recast timer with their lower tiers. So it's basically the same thing, only you don't have to shuffle everything around once you get tier II nukes. Honestly, you still have tier I nukes equipped? lawl

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For Cure spells, I'm sure they won't f up. If they do, I'mma be one angry CNJ.

Quoted from the producer's letter live part II

"Q: You said that all dungeons will become instanced areas. Does that mean there won't be any public area dungeons?

A: Basically, you can consider that they will eventually be gone in the end. Though there is an issue on how the content in field areas should be handled. For example, the beastman strongholds that were introduced in patch 1.19. I'm considering keeping those sorts of elements in the game.

However, challenges that limit player number are easier to design if they're in a form of instanced area. Also it'd be easier for players to seek members using a party finder. Thus in general, please consider that many of them will eventually become an instance area."

Uhh .. (No Thanks.) Open world content? (Yes, Please.)

Also if the party finder is anything like WoW's automatic que~

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/t...rdFacepalm.jpg

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

Tiered Spells, in a game which has a limited number of actions that can be used, are a waste of space. There are more inventive and strategic ways to vary the spells than making a more potent version. We could have instant cast spells with a reduced potency. We could have spells with a longer cast time that has greater potency. I would take actual variety over tiered spells any day of the week.

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Not trying to be a dick or anything, but even if you called it fire and fira, its still just fire I and fire II. They are both tiered.

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Originally Posted by Baxter

Not trying to be a dick or anything, but even if you called it fire and fira, its still just fire I and fire II. They are both tiered.

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You are right. That was a bad example. The point I was trying to make is that Tiered spells are not the only way to manage enmity and mp (and I failed, using an example of tiered spells... smh). There are other methods, which are more fun, and ultimately more beneficial to the party. Judging by the new development team's changes to date, I will trust them to make it so.

do not like the sound of it.

I'm not too concerned about the spells (I've been using only my highest tier heal spells), and I've never had a problem with hate management (unless I use curaga, of course). Obviously, if they take out lower tier spells, they'll account for it in the hate management.

I agree about the traits though. Character-centric rather than class-centric. All the way, with you there.

Just wait to see part two, but they have said that

A) They will be reducing Enmity gained through healing.

B) There not only will be condensing and shuffling of spells and abilities, but some new ones added as well.

Perhaps things like Regen that scales with level and attributes. Also, did you honestly think they'd make this change and completely forget about these concerns? Seriously, they are not that idiotic.