Dueling - Not Even Out, Already Let Down and Disappointed...

Let me start with saying I love FF XIV and almost every thing in the game. But in the live letter I saw the following:

-Dueling (:o)
---Can duel while queued
---No time limit on duels
---Takes place in Wolves' Den

"Takes place in Wolves' Den*

Are you kidding me? I don't want to go somewhere to duel, I want to do it in front of my house with my FC while we wait for a queue. Or out in-front of a town as part of a spectacle just hanging out. This has to be the worst and most pointless thing I've seen. You went through all the trouble of adding the feature and then you made it pretty much useless.

Dueling isn't about me being better than you, it's something to do to kill some time.

Only place to use pvp skills is within the wolves den area. Beside it might just end up being tank vs tank in the end.

I'm sorry you don't want to go to the pvp area to pvp.

No one wants to go to the pvp area to pvp lol....prolly why pvp is so freaking dead <3

Except on my server people hang out here regularly.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I'm sorry you don't want to go to the pvp area to pvp.

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To be fair - when I played WoW, the prime duel locations were the raid entrances and just outside the main cities.

The prior, because you were bored waiting on latecomers and had to stay in the area, unable to do something more productive like gathering, crafting or farming drops; the latter, because you had to queue at the battlemasters in one of the capitals, couldn't duel in the capitals themselves and wouldn't get much gathering done before the queue pops and puts you at the battlemaster again.

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Originally Posted by KiloByte

No one wants to go to the pvp area to pvp lol....prolly why pvp is so freaking dead <3

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That might be true for Front Lines, but certainly not for Feast. Queues are still very active there ... maybe not for dps, but they're a dime a dozen; so, that's not a surprise to anyone.

Regardless, SE made their position on open world dueling very clear in the early stages of this. Firstly, they didn't want to enable any forms of trolling (Duel Request! > No. > Duel Request! > No > Duel Request!. > I'M TRYING TO GATHER, YOU ASSHAT!). Secondly, they would probably have to make some serious adjustments to the open world coding in order to accommodate dueling. It certainly could have been done, no doubt. SE's definitely taking the lazy route out of this one, but that's nothing to be shocked or disappointed over, because they were clear on their position on dueling from the very start. They were hesitant to even let it happen. When they finally agreed to it, they were very clear that it would only be in specific areas.

Honestly, IF SE ever considered doing open world PvP, then I would expect it to be in a much larger patch then this, such as 4.0 expansion material, and only after they've done sufficient testing (like what we're getting now), but that's highly unlikely. I'd sooner put my hopes on a more relevant and expanded vendor system at WD Pier, so that we have more reasons to linger there then just goofing around on the dueling deck.

Someone people might find it offensive to be spam asked for a Duel over and over in main cities like Idyllshire, opening to harassment even. They were smart to put it in Wolves Den. People curious can go watch PvP without Queue time or Duel themselves. :]

PvP skills are only available in this area so why not. Imagine u could duel everywhere that would either mean no pvp skills or pvp skills which can be abused for PvE stuff

In every game Ive played that's had dueling as a feature people who want to duel end up hanging out in designated "dueling pits"

so... who cares, if its by player choice outside of orgrimmar or by design inside wolves den?

I'm just happy its being added. Looking forward to hanging out with the 8 or so people on my server who pvp, and hopefully getting more interested

I know in DC Universe Online you could duel anywhere same with borderlands 2, not sure why we cant in this game. Perhaps PS3 limitations? I'm not a fan of PVP, but the idea of dueling anywhere sounds fun.

It's only just being implemented... If it works out and there is enough need for it, I'm sure they will add more dueling areas throughout the world, and possibly even a furniture item to allow it in houses such as triple triad. Just be patient.

I'm actually going to side with limited time and priority on this one. There's a slew of things that need fixing/adjusting in this game, and while PVP is pretty dead they are trying to steadily fix it. However I'm pretty sure a lot of these changes can't be done over a single patch. I'm more than confident that dueling being restricted to the wolves den is primarily because they can't get PVP abilities to work properly outside of the designated are. A lot of those abilities would be "abused" in PVE content.

So right now I'm going to enjoy what we have, and hope that this will have enough popularity to get fully implemented in 4.0. If it doesn't, and I really do want to duel in a few areas, I can also count on one hand how many times I dueled beyond Stormwind.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

I know in DC Universe Online you could duel anywhere same with borderlands 2, not sure why we cant in this game. Perhaps PS3 limitations? I'm not a fan of PVP, but the idea of dueling anywhere sounds fun.

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Sounds fun until you're trying to do something else, and you get a pop-up of some random stranger requesting a duel. And that little popup cancels your teleport, your NPC vendor conversation, etc.

The jobs in this game aren't balanced for 1v1 PvP; they're barely balanced for party PvP. Dueling is going to flop pretty hard when people realize that.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Sounds fun until you're trying to do something else, and you get a pop-up of some random stranger requesting a duel. And that little popup cancels your teleport, your NPC vendor conversation, etc.

The jobs in this game aren't balanced for 1v1 PvP; they're barely balanced for party PvP. Dueling is going to flop pretty hard when people realize that.

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A - DCU was on ps3
B - its just something requested only forever, it shouldnt be for everywhere and im pretty confident eventually theyll allow sparring mats or some type of furniture like triple triad board(which follows the same rules and is area locked) for housing, if enough people want it.
C - chill who cares about balance for a side feature like this, its meant to pass time, as requested by all of us for like forever.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Sounds fun until you're trying to do something else, and you get a pop-up of some random stranger requesting a duel. And that little popup cancels your teleport, your NPC vendor conversation, etc.

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Like the trade request popup that already exists...? I dunno, finally introducing an option to deny that without /busy would be appreciated!

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

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People requesting it forever won't change the fact that the novelty will wear off very quickly, partially due to lack of job balance.

As long as it doesn't give people a way to interrupt my playing, I'm all for people having fun with it for two days.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Sounds fun until you're trying to do something else, and you get a pop-up of some random stranger requesting a duel. And that little popup cancels your teleport, your NPC vendor conversation, etc.

The jobs in this game aren't balanced for 1v1 PvP; they're barely balanced for party PvP. Dueling is going to flop pretty hard when people realize that.

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In most games that have a dueling option also have a menu option to disable dueling. So you wont even be asked to duel.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

In most games that have a dueling option also have a menu option to disable dueling. So you wont even be asked to duel.

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Most games have intelligent ways to prevent several forms of annoyance/harassment, FFXIV has /busy. It lumps together tells/trades/invites, making them either all on or all off, and I anticipate PvP duel to just be added to the pack.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Most games have intelligent ways to prevent several forms of annoyance/harassment, FFXIV has /busy. It lumps together tells/trades/invites, making them either all on or all off, and I anticipate PvP duel to just be added to the pack.

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Why am I not surprised they haven't allowed use to turn on/off tells/trades/invites by now.

Why do people want dueling so much. FFXIV classes are not balanced for 1v1 and it's not like there's much variation between a WAR240 vs another WAR240. At least in FFXI you had subjobs which opened up a WORLD of strategy. Oh, you're gonna /NIN, I'll /RDM and diaga your shadows, or I'll /BLU and have 1700 defense from Cocoon and take 0 damage, etc...

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

it's not like there's much variation between a WAR240 vs another WAR240.

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You must not PvP.

@OP: what a thing to be let down about. It's better this way; it will show how active the community actually is. Instead of people who only play for PvP being spread out around the world, they'll all be centralized and additional people might actually show some interest in PvP.

@"1v1 dueling won't be balanced" - it doesn't matter. If new healers can start even by practicing surviving one good player's burst in a 1v1 environment, then it will let them get their bearings and be better prepared for 4v4 Feast. That's just one of many examples on why this is good. It also gives those who are stuck with longer queues something to do while they wait.

there no point to duelling exept training and wait for your queue, so it don't need to be balanced.
something like this is a good point because pvp players can have something to do outside from the instance.
i even think it's not too soon...

Wonder how they will treat Ilvl and Morale inside the Wolves Den Pier. Right now nothing scales inside there, and morale might actually work since it's considered a "PvP zone"

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Originally Posted by Slib

Wonder how they will treat Ilvl and Morale inside the Wolves Den Pier. Right now nothing scales inside there, and morale might actually work since it's considered a "PvP zone"

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Interesting. I didn't think of that ... but I'm pretty sure morale won't make a difference here.

As far as I'm aware, morale is handled the same way as level sync. It is applied after the instance begins. Our gear level is increased and stats are adjusted accordingly. Level Sync is then applied after that. So, technically, morale isn't in effect when we're in the open world. It should have no effect on dueling, and they won't have to do any adjustments to the coding to accommodate it.

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Originally Posted by KiloByte

No one wants to go to the pvp area to pvp lol....prolly why pvp is so freaking dead <3

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Pfft how funny.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

In most games that have a dueling option also have a menu option to disable dueling. So you wont even be asked to duel.

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And that didn't stop trolls hassling me regardless even when playing on supposedly 'PvE-centric' servers and with dueling 'disabled' - SWToR, WoW, Grando Esperado to name a few (in fact, it was particularly annoying in The Old Republic when I was forever being harassed as a Jedi Consular by stupid Republic Troopers to duel, and who would throw all manner of insults at me because I refused. I mean, seriously?

That is why duelling will be restricted to the Wolves' Den here in FFXIV, it's to try and prevent this sort of nonsense from occurring here.

level 50 pld i90 vs level 60 pld i245 (dodge doge dodge dodge dodge dodge dodge)

Of course it won't be balanced, PLD can solo any non-healer with a lot of time and patience if they don't have a healer, for example.

Dueling is being launched for fun, giggles and pratice.

I'm okay with this being Limited to Wolves' Den. Consider this

• Not everybody on the open world is gonna be playing as a Level 50-60 Job due to Leveling Alts, Questing (MSQ, Beast Tribes, Job Quests) and being new to the game in general. Without any checks or limits this makes them more vulnerable to be murdered by anyone that finished the MSQ. And even among those as Stouter mentioned the Job balance is well, imbalanced (frankly a non-issue as the focus in PvP is on team play) meaning that unless the opponent is skilled enough to clear Savage or get the hand of Mercy Title in a short amount of time, they would be likely to lose to a Tank (especially WAR), Ranged Melee (Especially MCH) or CC-happy (Note BLM has Sleep, a pair of sheilds, Lethargy, a separate move for healing and 2 Bind spells. Their PvP sets include some debuffs and another sleep) player. And Healers (except maybe WHM) will likely be the most likely to lose unless there's a time limit
• One of these checks, the requirement of the other party to consent, will also likely work same way that TT and Trade invites are used...which means you have to be /busy or your teleports break in the open world. Likewise they can also be used to distract players and cause them to take hits they would otherwise avoid, or more likely lose out on credit during FATEs and Hunts (Imagine is this was implemented before the Yo-Kai watch event or Hunts' heydays without the WD limit)
• While some people would just use it as a way to kill time until their queue pops, others will likely use it to bully the aforementioned low-level or less skilled characters, or as revenge for angering them some way up to and including the pettiest of reasons. Not a welcoming environment (Side note: people often claim this game has the most welcoming environment or at least is more welcoming than WoW).

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

And that didn't stop trolls hassling me regardless even when playing on supposedly 'PvE-centric' servers and with dueling 'disabled' - SWToR, WoW, Grando Esperado to name a few (in fact, it was particularly annoying in The Old Republic when I was forever being harassed as a Jedi Consular by stupid Republic Troopers to duel, and who would throw all manner of insults at me because I refused. I mean, seriously?

That is why duelling will be restricted to the Wolves' Den here in FFXIV, it's to try and prevent this sort of nonsense from occurring here.

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That sucks that happened to you, But If those games had a proper "disable dueling" option and a anti bulling report function like FF14 has then you wouldn't have has this problem. I believe SE can implement a function to disable invites for dueling. Personally I never had this problem though people would challenge me in DC online or Borderland 2 I ignored them and they went away. When I do accepted their challenge, I ended up reviving them. Both of those games had proper "disable dueling" options and they worked as they should. You couldn't be challenged and nothing would pop up saying "do you want to duel?"

I hate PVP in MMO's, not fun for me, but I love random standing around "lets duel" options with people I know. I would love to be standing around waiting for a dungeon in Limsa or wherever and just start dueling. I don't care about balance or what class has the edge over another. I just want to mess around and have fun dueling anywhere. The fact that they locked it down to a place I rarely go is pretty much killing the dueling on arrival. I have no reason to ever go to the wolves den. Standing there just for dueling , no thanks.

Though this could be just a test phase which would be understandable if they released it just to test it out at the wolves den. I hope they release the option to duel wherever you want, even in a dungeon while the adults are making strategies.

Yeah, it's a letdown that we can't do it anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Why do people want dueling so much. FFXIV classes are not balanced for 1v1 and it's not like there's much variation between a WAR240 vs another WAR240. At least in FFXI you had subjobs which opened up a WORLD of strategy. Oh, you're gonna /NIN, I'll /RDM and diaga your shadows, or I'll /BLU and have 1700 defense from Cocoon and take 0 damage, etc...

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Completely agree. Unless ones refering to skill timing/usage, all jobs are 100% the same, vs ff11's subjobs where one (war) could be more tactical whereas another could be nearly invincible based on the subjobs abilities. Compared to THAT...ff14s a laughable joke. (remember having nights were 1 million gil was offered for tourneys in Dio with no restrictions on subjob usage. THAT..was dueling.) FF14? Looking forward to something new but maybe it should at least just be phrased 'sparring' lolol.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Why do people want dueling so much. FFXIV classes are not balanced for 1v1 and it's not like there's much variation between a WAR240 vs another WAR240. At least in FFXI you had subjobs which opened up a WORLD of strategy. Oh, you're gonna /NIN, I'll /RDM and diaga your shadows, or I'll /BLU and have 1700 defense from Cocoon and take 0 damage, etc...

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To beat up your friends.

It's not about strategy or balance, there is no reward for it or anything. it's just a bit of fun.

I hope you can duel as a DoH. I really want to stand there for 10 mins clobbering someone to death with a frying pan.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I'm sorry you don't want to go to the pvp area to pvp.

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It's funny how this got the most likes here while being completely ignorant of the fact that in games with good pvp, duels happen exactly as OP hoped.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

It's funny how this got the most likes here while being completely ignorant of the fact that in games with good pvp, duels happen exactly as OP hoped.

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coincidentally aren't most games with good PvP less...welcoming than XIV claims to be?

i wouldnt mind an area in each city, cough uldah's coloseum cough. But what i hate most about the dueling in games is the constant duel requests, so im fine with restricting areas from dueling. I think, like triple triad, this is just the first test of this thing, and im sure with more requests for more areas whatnot(would love a sparring room in the fc for private matches and training new players better their job/roles)