Class to Jobs Duty Finder Requirement

Please make it mandatory for players with classes at levels that can allow them to attain Job stones to get the stones before allowing then to queue through Duty Finder.

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Multiple times in 1 week, I have seen many Tanks join Duty Finder at levels 45-50 that don\\'t have their Class\\'s Jobs unlocked. At first I thought many of them simply had them unequipped. But this is not the case. There are tanks that are purposely skipping the Job quests out of whatever reason they seem to deem appropriate at the time (which 99%u0025 of the time is not).

You can\\'t properly hold aggro as a Gladiator at a certain level, Warrior and Paladin REQUIRE certain abilities to hold aggro and maintain a realistic amount of HP to fit into the mechanics of their roles. A Warrior without Defiance is just a DPS. I\\'ve pulled aggro by placing a few Damage over Time effects and you may as well forget playing BLM because it is IMPOSSIBLE to not pull aggro.

Make it mandatory. Put a lock on the Duty Finder at Level 30 and MAKE THESE IRRESPONSIBLE PLAYERS SELECT A JOB! I\\'m tired of being penalized for 30 minutes everytime I leave a duty because the TANK, ISNT A TANK! And usually they won\\'t let an Abandon Vote pass because the DAMAGE DEALERS don\\'t want to wait for another Duty Finder queue, they want to just die over and over in the dungeon because they\\'re not tanks, but neither is a Gladiator at level 40-50.

I understand your sentiments, but I don't believe we should force people to get their job crystal if they do not wish to. That being said, there should be much more to make players aware of the fact that there is a job crystal if they do not know it exsits, and help guide them to where they need to start. I simply believe a lot of people just miss that there is a job crystal quest path after you finish your lvl 30 class quests, and simply just miss out. Anyways, the tl;dr is this, Don't make it mandatory, but we need to find ways to make it apparent and obvious to people that there is a job quest at lvl 30 to upgrade your class.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

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Agreed. Considering how linear class upgrade paths are in general, however, I don't understand why these things aren't automatic to begin with. I guess there is nice lore/story to go with the quest to unlock the upgrades, but I really feel like this kind of invites a room for negligence on the player's part, especially since there is no reason to not upgrade at all.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your logic in making this a choice. It is without a doubt a NECESSITY in order to complete level 50 (and possibly lower) and higher content. For instance, you're saying that a player should have a choice whether or not to do Lv. 48-50 Aurum Vale as Gladiator Class without the EXTREMELY needed skills of a Warrior or Paladin Job Crystal?

* A Warrior's PRIMARY reason for being able to tank efficiently is the use of abilities like DEFIANCE which:
+ Increases Health by 25%
+ Increases Healing Received by 20%
+ Increases Emnity gained by using abilities.

* A Paladin's PRIMARY reason for being able to tank efficiently is the use of abilities like SHIELD OATH which:
+ Reduces Damage Received by 20%
+ Increases Chance to Hit by 5%,
+ Increases Emnity Gained by using abilities.

We have requirements for Item Levels (170+ for Void Ark Raid, 200+ for Sohr Khai, 215+ for upcoming content in 3.4.0) so why in the world don't we have a requirement for Job Crystals, when it's literally the FOUNDATION for Each Role in a Raid/Party? If people don't know that's one thing, and I'm always kind to inform them, but when they're blatantly dismissing it and making everyone's job infinitely more difficult, then it's a problem that can be solved by placing an EASY REQUIREMENT that directs players to go choose a class for CERTAIN DUNGEONS that inadvertently NEED it. If you don't believe me, tell your Tank to take off their job crystal and try healing them through Aurum Vale while making sure no one else pulls aggro and don't let a single person die.

I have an almost level 60 Lancer.
Yeah. Lancer.


Anyway honestly I find CNJ at high level more problematic than GLD or MRD at high level. At least those two can deal damage... a CNJ at level 50+ can barely keep anyone alive. Also what about people who like to run with friends in weird set ups?

I agree with Nyghtmarerobu, don't make it mandatory but make it more obvious. Most of the people I run into without a job stone just plain had NO CLUE there even was a job they could get.

No, I think it should be mandatory, as well.

It IS pretty dang obvious when you complete your level 30 quest and a new quest pops up right beside you pointing out how to unlock the job. In the same room. Literally I can't think of single exception of a job quest requiring more than three steps of travel from the NPC you turn in the last class quest to the one you unlock your job.

All they need to do is add a note to do your job quest after the turn-in.


But, holy jeez, tanks and healers are so dependant on their job skills it isn't even funny. I can't even imagine the frustration of a CNJ in 50+ level content. Woof...

I too think it should be mandaory. It is obviously better and at some point it's pretty hard not to use it. If you just want to do single player content or in premade groups, sure, but don't drag down a group of strangers by not doing the obvious better. Job crystal requirements for level 40+ things would also force people to see there are jobs, since some still manage to simply not notice. There is no rooom for "if you don't wish to you don't have to." That's like giving someone better equipment but "nah you don't have to wear it if you don't want to you precios sunflower uwu who cares if you can play better with it"

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

No, I think it should be mandatory, as well.

It IS pretty dang obvious when you complete your level 30 quest and a new quest pops up right beside you pointing out how to unlock the job. In the same room. Literally I can't think of single exception of a job quest requiring more than three steps of travel from the NPC you turn in the last class quest to the one you unlock your job.

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Some people haven't the required secondary class at level 15+, in which case you can't get the job quest. Then there are those who, for various reasons, don't do their class quests.

This seems like too much of nanny state for me to get behind.

While I agree that folks should stay up-to-date on their class/job quests, I do want to point out that there is NO content from 45-49 that can't be completed with a completely gimpy tank. Or no tank at all. I have personally completed runs of Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale, and Cutters Cry as a three-man party with no tank, and while I haven't actually done Garuda that way, she's been nerfed so hard that I'm guessing it's possible. There's no way that even a terrible tank that can't hold hate for crap is going to make such a situation worse.

By leaving such a group, and accepting the 30 minute penalty, you are punishing only yourself, because you could have instead finished the run in those thirty minutes with the gimpy group you entered with.

My recommendation is, if you find yourself in such a situation, calmly and POLITELY explain to the tank why they're having such trouble tanking, and how difficult it will be for them in the future. Let them know that the class and job quests are not optional content; that they unlock valuable abilities that will make their job a lot easier at low levels and can simply not be done without at higher levels.

As for 50+ content, most dungeons can still be cleared without a tank, but it gets progressively harder to do. If job-crystal-less tanks are still showing up in those instances, it may be worthwhile to bail.

I'd also like to point out that this isn't exactly an epidemic. It is RARE for someone to show up in such content without a job crystal. On the occasions that it happens, it's not unreasonable to suggest that you actually try to educate them.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

By leaving such a group, and accepting the 30 minute penalty, you are punishing only yourself, because you could have instead finished the run in those thirty minutes with the gimpy group you entered with.

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FC-member joined 3 new players through Duty Finder in Brayflox's Longstop, and none of them (newbies) had job-crystals equipped. It took them over 30 minutes to get to second boss.

I don't remember the patch but I'm pretty sure they have add a notification system to know when you have a new quest to unlock a skill or anything. 3.2 maybe.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

I understand your sentiments, but I don't believe we should force people to get their job crystal if they do not wish to.

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They could allow base classes in pre-formed parties, but require jobs in order to use DF's party matching system for high level dungeons/trials. That would still allow players to do challenge runs without their crystals when they're with a party that accepts that idea.

The job requirement could just fall into the party composition rules that way (which are already enforced only on DF formed parties, but not pre-formed ones). So past a certain level, to qualify for the "tank" or "healer" or "DPS" role in those DF party compositions, you'd have to be on a tank job or healer job or DPS job.

Truth be told i ran in to arcanist in my mentor roulette the other day. so i just asked like hey what class are u going for? he said smn but he didn't know how to unlock it , so i told him what he had to lvl up to get the job he seeks . maybe they do not know how to unlock it maybe?

it should be mandatory based on some of these quest progressions.

Call me crazy, but as a healer, I'd be mad as hell if I saw a lvl 60 Marauder and some level 60 Lancers in Final Steps of Faith.

If you could do the entire MSQ by yourself, then that would be great...knock yourself out.

However, when you have to get into groups for Dungeons and Trials and you have severly limit your damage output during important DPS checks, you not only do a disservice to yourself but you also are screwing the healers and other folks in the party.

Plus, it's not that hard to do a job quest.

edit: i can totally understand lower lvls just not knowing and that's cool. But lvl 60....hmm

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Originally Posted by Axxion

Truth be told i ran in to arcanist in my mentor roulette the other day. so i just asked like hey what class are u going for? he said smn but he didn't know how to unlock it , so i told him what he had to lvl up to get the job he seeks . maybe they do not know how to unlock it maybe?

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This makes me angry. A 5 second Google search shows how to unlock any given job. Why aren't people willing to help themselves?

Good on you for giving him the help he needed, but you shouldn't have to.

Thank Yo-kai....

Our FC leader took MCH from level 30-56 farming fate for yo-kai. Didn't do any quest along the way just farming fates.

In turn I'm sure other did Yo-kai on original classes.

At 51+ content it should be required in df parties. Otherwise I will do weeping as an archer ( that way people won't complain that I don't turn wanderers minuet on)

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While I agree that folks should stay up-to-date on their class/job quests, I do want to point out that there is NO content from 45-49 that can't be completed with a completely gimpy tank. Or no tank at all. I have personally completed runs of Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale, and Cutters Cry as a three-man party with no tank, and while I haven't actually done Garuda that way, she's been nerfed so hard that I'm guessing it's possible. There's no way that even a terrible tank that can't hold hate for crap is going to make such a situation worse.

By leaving such a group, and accepting the 30 minute penalty, you are punishing only yourself, because you could have instead finished the run in those thirty minutes with the gimpy group you entered with.

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the dungeons i've been in with no job attached took WAY longer to finish than a 30 minute penalty. As another poster said, 30 minutes to get to the second boss is about right

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Originally Posted by xSinful_Snake

Put a lock on the Duty Finder at Level 30 ...

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I'd give a few levels of leeway after 30, so Brayflox could still have classes. While it's important for tanks right away, some of the DPS jobs are basically just a stat boost at the cost of fewer cross-class skills up until they get another quest or two. NIN, for instance, doesn't start to feel like much of a job until getting Katon and Raiton from the level 35 quest. At 30, all they get is Fuma Shuriken, which isn't all that great. (I think I've only ever used it when soloing if I wanted to pull a mob from a greater distance than the throwing daggers can, but in group content pulling is up to the tank.) Though personally I've always gotten and used my jobs right away, even if it was just for the stat boost, I know some players who prefer to wait until their job skills are more useful than the cross-class ones they replace.

So maybe around 35 or 40 they could start making it a requirement (except in pre-formed parties).

SE could fix this issue in the simplest of ways. Just make all ilvl 115 and above equipment for jobs only. No more of 'LNC/DRG' on that spear. It's DRG only now.
Give people some leeway up to level 50 to finish grinding some fates and what-not. But as soon as you start wanting to put on those 3.0 non-glamour crafteds, you gotta get serious. Especially if they ever plan on actually deprecating classes, this will save them some effort in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Annah

the dungeons i've been in with no job attached took WAY longer to finish than a 30 minute penalty. As another poster said, 30 minutes to get to the second boss is about right

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I stand by what I said. Remember that not only do you have to factor in the 30 minute penalty, you also need to factor in the time that you spend with the new group that you wind up in. Even if they're top notch, it's still likely going to take another 20 minutes. Groups bad enough that they STILL exceed this time are incredibly rare, not the epidemic the original poster seems to be implying.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I'd give a few levels of leeway after 30, so Brayflox could still have classes. While it's important for tanks right away, some of the DPS jobs are basically just a stat boost at the cost of fewer cross-class skills up until they get another quest or two. NIN, for instance, doesn't start to feel like much of a job until getting Katon and Raiton from the level 35 quest. At 30, all they get is Fuma Shuriken, which isn't all that great. (I think I've only ever used it when soloing if I wanted to pull a mob from a greater distance than the throwing daggers can, but in group content pulling is up to the tank.) Though personally I've always gotten and used my jobs right away, even if it was just for the stat boost, I know some players who prefer to wait until their job skills are more useful than the cross-class ones they replace.

So maybe around 35 or 40 they could start making it a requirement (except in pre-formed parties).

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Actually Fuma is prefer over Raiton due to less gcd clipping issues, and its fun to run content without soul crystal, I once tank EX Seph on a Marauder just for the heck of it.

Maybe they are already planning this for 4.0 but I think the best longterm solution is to swap what level cross class skills are learned 31+ to under level 30, move all class learned skills 31+ to jobs, and cap all classes at level 30.

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Originally Posted by Axxion

Truth be told i ran in to arcanist in my mentor roulette the other day. so i just asked like hey what class are u going for? he said smn but he didn't know how to unlock it , so i told him what he had to lvl up to get the job he seeks . maybe they do not know how to unlock it maybe?

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There is no excuse when they complete thier level 30 class quest another one pops up that tells they which secondary class they need to level to 15.

I agree this should be mandatory to have your job crystal to que for 35+ content.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

Actually Fuma is prefer over Raiton due to less gcd clipping issues

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Neither of them have any GCD clipping issues. Ninjutsu and the mudra skills that build up to it are all instant, so it's pretty easy to put together the whole sequence for any of them in between GCD skills. Fuma is as fast as you can tap two buttons. Raiton is as fast as you can tap three buttons. Even the later ones that need four buttons take under a second total.

I realize I was somewhat overstating it though in suggesting I didn't use it. Until the better skills were unlocked at 35, Fuma Shuriken did at least add an instant attack to occasionally use between GCD attacks. But except for a longer range (25 yalms rather than 15) it's a pretty mediocre one. Once you reach 35 and have the choice of either a 240 potency attack or a 360 potency one, and either is going to use up your Ninjutsu cooldown timer just the same, it's not much of a contest.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

and its fun to run content without soul crystal, I once tank EX Seph on a Marauder just for the heck of it.

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Oh, I agree, though it's the sort of thing to do with friends and not something suitable for a DF party where the other members weren't planning on an extra challenge like that. It's why I suggested excluding pre-formed parties from any requirements in this regard:

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

They could allow base classes in pre-formed parties, but require jobs in order to use DF's party matching system for high level dungeons/trials. That would still allow players to do challenge runs without their crystals when they're with a party that accepts that idea.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I stand by what I said. Remember that not only do you have to factor in the 30 minute penalty, you also need to factor in the time that you spend with the new group that you wind up in. Even if they're top notch, it's still likely going to take another 20 minutes. Groups bad enough that they STILL exceed this time are incredibly rare, not the epidemic the original poster seems to be implying.

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I don't think anyone sits at the computer and dutifully waits for the 30 minute penalty to count down. Typically I'll do something else meanwhile.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Neither of them have any GCD clipping issues. Ninjutsu and the mudra skills that build up to it are all instant, so it's pretty easy to put together the whole sequence for any of them in between GCD skills. Fuma is as fast as you can tap two buttons. Raiton is as fast as you can tap three buttons. Even the later ones that need four buttons take under a second total.
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With haton ur gcd is gonna get lower down to 2sec, Raiton is takes .5 sec extra and have a long animation lock that will clip into ir next gcd. It has been knew to most raider. Thats why u see alot of ninja using fuma instead. Only time to really use Raiton is with kassatsu or when ur not able to hit something right away with gcd.

I also fault Palace of the Dead, it's easy experience and many of times I've encountered people playing with their class.

I also see the point of requiring the job, my only but is that the class has more cross-class skills that can be used and that could be a reason. But I can't imagine doing any dungeon 50+ w/o a job. Like ilvl job should also be a requirement for end-game content.

I agree with the poster who said this was too nanny state for their liking. Plus any sort of DF requirement means I can't go in with my own group and see what we can tackle with outside the box party makeup choices. So I don't support this.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I agree with the poster who said this was too nanny state for their liking. Plus any sort of DF requirement means I can't go in with my own group and see what we can tackle with outside the box party makeup choices. So I don't support this.

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Think the op specifically said only for df. Preformed parties wouldn't have the issue.

On that note tho, why do preformed parties have to be subject to ilvl limitations?

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

Raiton is takes .5 sec extra and have a long animation lock that will clip into ir next gcd.

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It doesn't have any animation lock. It does have an animation, and occasionally the animations themselves might clip a little if you were a bit slow to begin the mudras, but you shouldn't be waiting for the animation to finish. Just fire off the mudras as fast as you can click the buttons, then fire off your next GCD as soon as the timer says it's available and both attacks will go off fine. The animations will catch up.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

It doesn't have any animation lock. It does have an animation, and occasionally the animations themselves might clip a little if you were a bit slow to begin the mudras, but you shouldn't be waiting for the animation to finish. Just fire off the mudras as fast as you can click the buttons, then fire off your next GCD as soon as the timer says it's available and both attacks will go off fine. The animations will catch up.

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Unfortunately ur next gcd will not come out evenif u mesh it till the animation is finish and firing off mudra runs the risk of mudra delay and landing a bunny.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

Unfortunately ur next gcd will not come out evenif u mesh it till the animation is finish and firing off mudra runs the risk of mudra delay and landing a bunny.

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I guess that could be an issue if you're experiencing enough lag that your commands aren't reaching the server reliably. I hardly ever have enough lag issues for that to be a concern, so I don't wait to see whether a mudra worked, but can just trust that it will because I clicked it. Maybe a player with either a bad internet connection or playing from the opposite side of the world from the server they're on, so lag is a regular concern, might validly favor the shorter mudra combo, but that's cutting down on their DPS quite a bit. On a normal lag-free connection, you can fire off mudras as fast as you can click them. Maybe one time in a thousand or more, it might misfire, but not often enough for that to figure into skill choices.

Uhh no, Brayflox's Longstop, everyone should have a job.
It's an absolute pain to heal through if they are still a gladiator. It'd be borderline impossible if both the tank AND healer had no soulstone.
I've had that happen. I was NIN'ing and the healer could not keep the tank alive on the first boss (both were soulstone-less). We must have wiped three times before I quit.
I'll take a 30 minute penalty and go watch netflix while I wait to do my leveling roulette, thank you very much.

I have to agree that a soul stone should be a requirement by at least level 50. The game is balanced for people with soul stones at that point, so you're just going to hinder everyone if you don't bother getting yours.

I had a 60 Glad in Sephirot a few days ago & they spent their time floor tanking before they got swiped off from Sephy's arm.

Job crystals need to be a requirement. Especially. ESPECIALLY. For. Tanks. You can't be a TANK without your crystal, you just become a very very weak dps with a lot of hp & defense. DF needs to be locked for a class on Qarn & up unless you've done your 30 Job quest & have your stone equipped.

But they'd never allow it bc it'd deter newbs that dun wan to do da quest.

Okay, it's been a while since I got my first job crystal, but I don't understand all the "Unacceptable" and "no excuse" comments. There are several perfectly legitimate reasons why someone might not have their job crystal.

1. Might not know about it
2. Might know about it, but not realize how important it is
3. Has it on their agenda but just hasn't done it yet or they haven't reached lvl 15 in the off-class required
4. In the case of Arcanist, maybe they haven't decided yet which job they want to explore first

I mean if you gently put down your torches and pitchforks for a second, it's easy to see the reasons why someone might not have it. If you take approx. 3 minutes of your time to talk to them about it, more often than not they will give one of the above as their reason for not having it, and will be grateful for the advice.

Example: Had a Marauder in our FC who asked the FC to run Brayflox with them. I was healing and after the first pull I was like "hm. That was kind of messy, what's up?" Then I saw they were a MRD and not a WAR. Asked them about it, they said they knew about the job thing, but didn't know it was that important. They thought it was just a rubber stamp, going through the motions type thing. We mopped up Brayflox with some more-focus-than-usual gameplay and then they went off to get the job crystal. About 20 mins later I got a tell from them basically saying "Holy crap! This Defiance skill is dope!"

That said, Everyone should have it and use it by Titan. At that point, I think they're in trouble territory, and they will only be making life more difficult for themselves and the people they play with.