Let me first say that 'packing up' or 'rolling up' houses and making way for actively subbing players is ALWAYS a great thing regardless of the online game. Ghosts of the past shouldn't be interfering with the present.
That being said, Square's decision to straight up DELETE your hard earned assets is alarming, shocking, and uninspired.
I am one of these people (Diabolos, Ventus Vero and Vengillian Vero). I was very excited to jump back into game when 3-4 friends said they wanted to all play an MMO and mentioned FF14 (originally left as life happens, new job, moving states, buying first house, death of mother). I found i had 5 days of game time for some reason, logged in and discovered the ugly truth. 2 GM tickets later it was confirmed that if you do not log in for 45 days, your house and all the items in it get deleted. I never got an email or I would have used my free game time to sell the house and store the items in my person FC bank. Anything but deleted en mass.
-Why couldnt square keep the 'deed' list? Why delete it completely. Is a 170KB or so file with itemIDs, gil, and positions for an instanced lot/house so crippling? We already know they 'packed up' houses and put them on vendors for all items and 80% of the gil, so why delete such a file for 45 days of inactive (even is actively subbed).
-Why not have a paid restoration? Even if, lets say, all 5 million subs or so get houses and then have them redeed, the collective item list/gil wouldnt be crippling (I offer to buy a couple 2TB drives...) but actively keeping something for nothing wouldnt be reasonable. You've got dozens of services on the mogstation already, including additional retainers and such. Why not capitalize on rolled up houses by charging for recovery of 80% gil and the items?
Everything here points to a conclusion along the lines of "We don't care" or are talking steps to prevent re-subs. Clearing housing for active subs and archiving inactives... it could have been both, even at financial gain (i would have paid to just get the items and 80% gil back from my private house, over 2 years of memories there).
I was really excited to dive back in, wanted to get a collectors heavensward and catch up and see whats been going on. I'm sure the manderville man has been at it again. I left after the final coil came out/the golden saucer.
In the end, however, there is caution to advise to players investing in characters and assets in FF14 ARR when Square Enix will delete said investments so easily.
Just another sob story from some online player, im sure, but I wanted to relate plainly that if you own a house, your house and items will be deleted in 45 days if you dont log in and visit your house. I received a lot of "its just re-deeded in 45, you can pick it up from vendor" and other wrong misinformation. Definitely one of the best MMOs ive ever played (second in my mind only to my beloved SWG of old) but one must have principles, and this sort of practice is something I would prefer to avoid supporting, even if that means no more Hildebrand for me.
Perhaps one day Square will offer MogStation restorations of the gil and items (unlikely, but I am keeping the dream alive). Until then, take care of Eorzea for me (and stay classy Diabolos).
Player Assets deleted (Housing)
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09-01-2016, 10:11 AMDonzePlayer Assets deleted (Housing)
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09-01-2016, 10:22 AMOliviaJ
I'll give you this, at least you are understanding that your house isn't there anymore and seem like you agree with the reason behind it. It would be nice if they kept that data for longer though. Maybe it's more of an incentive to get people to re-sub. You know it's likely possible since they kept your character info. What lot did you have anyway?
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09-01-2016, 10:30 AMDonzeBelieve me, i tried. I almost felt like i was consuming too much precious Ticket Response time from others. I asked, extensively, even offered to pay a service fee to get a 'elevated tech' on it. Suggested I would compensate say 50$ for the recovery (when i was initially researching and in denial "they can't have decided on this, i must be missing something" mode, one reddit user had the cactars to suggest that for that money, you could just buy the gil, which any decent Hero of Eorzea would be offended by. The gil was certainly one part, but the memories man! The items there are all memories!)Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaJ
I believe i was in 6 or so. Private lot, center back left, Small house just at the bottom of the west ramp from from Lavander Beds Center Back Market board. You could sprint jump off the cliff directly from the board into the front yard. But the location of the house is of little or no consequence compared to all the great memories arranged in that house. The bath/spa alone was the venue of some great and hilarious hang-outs. Not sure i can even remember what the bench out front under the tree next to the melons in water looked like, but i remember the friend that, in protest to me needing to tank in a raid instead of barding, sat on the bench attempting to spread word of the injustice of it all to passersby in a show of solidarity, like 12 hours a day for 7 straight days until next raid...ha! Everything there had a story, a memory, the very PLOT point of FF14 (losing the memory of the heros that saved the land, but honoring them nonetheless) and it feels off or wrong for the policy to be 'delete it'.
I'm far too much of a gamer (or too rational?) to think i should get the lot. Absolutely not. By all means pack it up. But deleted? What screams "stay away, dont log in!" more than deleting players hard work? Even if you are actively still subbing, thats no excuse to be able to camp on a lot when others may want to buy, but by the twelve, just hang onto or extract a 150KB text file of the (what is the cap? 75 items for small house?) players memories in the form of items, the gil, and give him/her a reason to return rather than the opposite.
While researching if there was anything I could do to recover the gil/items, i was bombarded with people that said "no, Square Enix doesnt delete anything, its on the vendor" and as much as I hate the phrase "raise awareness", I thought it appropriate to articulate plainly that 45 days no house visit means deleted and to make the suggestion for a paid service on mogstation in lieu of discouraging former homeowners from ever returning.
Stay Safe Adventurer! -
09-01-2016, 10:59 AMOliviaJ
Oh see that's how the wards used to be. They are feeling a bit empty nowadays. It sounds like you've retained your memories though. Gil is easy to recover. Some of those housing items are gone forever, sure. I'm sure you can pick up the pieces though. Plots still open once in a while. FC's are still recruiting. Come back for future good times!
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09-01-2016, 11:00 AMDonze
Removed by OP (to save space)
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09-01-2016, 11:09 AMDonzeBelieve me, I want to, but I am a man of principles. I am just praying that Square Enix sees the light (or the money) and offers a paid recovery of the gil and items, otherwise I am wary to commit to another investment and labor of love while in the hands of ill-responsible stewards. I hope the opportunity to makes more memories like the stuff in that house and these pictures convey comes along when/if SEnix sees reason. (Kat's pics are from early in FF14 ARR's life, i mean, darklight, but THATS the kinda stuff you'd think a company would like to foster while getting paid a subscription, not the kinda stuff it deletes)Quote:
Originally Posted by OliviaJ
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09-01-2016, 02:05 PMNaria
While I am in support of the housing timer, I've always found it odd that there is a limit to how long your items/gil/deed is stored. My main is a 1.0 character and all of our inventory was stored by the calamity salvager npc during the transition to 1.0. I still have random items stored by them that I've never bothered to pick up (I should do something about that :o). Granted this is a small and diminishing population and FFXIV seems to have memory/storage issues but storing housing items, especially since many event items can no longer be obtained, would be a nice courtesy.
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09-01-2016, 08:53 PMworldofneil
I'm sorry that you lost your house, I really am, but (and I honestly mean no offence) you're basically telling us information we already know...
We were originally warned about housing reclamation in December 2013 in the 2.1 patch notes and that it'd be coming with 2.2, but there were so many complaints about it that they indefinitely shelved it and that never happened.
But then after multiple forum threads complaining about inactive houses and the desire to have those houses reused, they reworked it and we were told back in October 2015 that housing reclamation was coming with 3.1. This was then confirmed in the 3.1 patch notes. Both of the those links say about if you don't walk into the house with 45 days it will be demolished and if it is demolished you have 35 days to collect your items/80% compensation money.
They do send two emails to the email address on the account before it is demolished and I realise you've said you didn't receive any email so I recommend checking your email address on the account is still valid as well as if it's been traping their emails in any junk/spam folders. Failing that, shout at your email provider as they might be running their own block list.
Housing demolition was also posted on the launcher at the time as well so everyone playing was actively informed (and having a working email address should have informed everyone not playing, but there's only so much Square Enix can do to tell people...)
The housing reclamation started with 3.1 on 9th November 2015, but due to the Kumamoto earthquake in Japan it has actually been suspended since April 2016 and has been repeatedly pushed back and won't be started again until 3.4 (27 September 2016). The free game time you recently got was due to the Free Login Campaign and was for 5 days since 25th July 2016. This unfortunately wouldn't have helped you with your house as that would have been demolished at somepoint between November 2015 and April 2016 and then the items/money deleted 35 days after that.
Well I appreciate that's a personal opionion, but there's 45 days before anything happens, an in game warning, 2 email warnings and even when it is deleted, you still have 35 more days to collect. After that yes it is gone, but that's quite a long period of time and all you have to do to save the house is walk into it... (or talk to the vendor to get items back)Quote:
Originally Posted by Donze
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donze
I'm curious to know how you came up with such an exact figure, but although I don't know the definite answer to your question, I suspect it's nothing to do with data storage and more because they want to motivate players to login (and play?) as well as if they can ditch the data it's one less thing for them to have to worry about storing/converting/updating in the future. Also housing was originally supposed to be a massive gil sink (so many things put money into the game, very few take them out) so they want to remove as much gil as possible to help slow inflation. Getting back 80% of the gil was supposed to be compensation, but now of course every player wants that 80% back and won't just relinquish the plot for nothing knowing that they could get money. Deleting the money after those 35 days allows Square Enix to have that gil sink again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donze
They already get a lot of stick for the Mogstation and at least everything on that you buy is untradeable. If they had a paid restoration they're essentially giving you money/items that are tradeable, for a real world price. Obviously they are items that you once did own, but it's no longer acting as the gil sink it was and I can only imagine how many accusations and money grabbing there would be about SE still having the data and only handing it over after you hand over a fee etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donze
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09-02-2016, 12:40 AMLexia
Being how lot of servers don't have enough housing how exactly would of roll up or restoration of your house workd? Where are they going to put it? Cause if you on a server that doesn't have enough houses the plot that your house was on would of been taken by someone else.
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09-02-2016, 12:54 AMAshelia_Ferron
OP you say it makes no sense to delete your stuff, but why wouldn't it?
If you rent out a storage unit, put stuff in it, and then stop paying, what does the storage company do? Auction off or throw out everything in your storage.
Can you go back a month or two later and just pay to get your stuff back? No, of course not. They have no obligation to do so.
So why would SE have a different policy? -
09-02-2016, 01:14 AMDonzeThat might be the case with some, but thats a confident 'we'. As mentioned in the OP, people seems to be under the delusion that nothing gets deleted (got this in the localization thread, reddit, facebook, etc). So awareness seemed more important than I would have thought. Even in the post immediately after yours, by Lexia, she mentionsQuote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
so there was clearly a misconception or misunderstanding by a great number of the community I ran into (over half i would say have made similar, physical in-game space defenses). So many people told me "Square never deletes anything" as well. that "no, your stuff is always there, go check the vendor" and I really wished that was my case. Maybe if more players knew they could get their items deleted, even if actively subbed, there could be change (and my evil, personal goals could be fulfilled!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexia
You're right about the patch notes. Completely right, and I certainly don't think nor accuse Square of being sneaky about it. I think they were fully disclosed about the intent (its in their interests to do so even). However that doesn't mean I agree with the process/execution. They could post something like "you will lose you inventory and retainer items if you dont visit the golden saucer once a month", but the head's up doesn't defacto make the process beyond reproach. (though in-game emails and patch notes might be outside the realm of useful in regards to 30+ day inactive players, ha.).
While I certainly have no desire to champion every misunderstanding, i loved this game and my personal housing items were near and dear to me, so I wanted to at least 1) post in the suggestions thread for a way forward. SOME way around the roadblock of returning home owners having their hard work deleted and 2) to articulate that clearing inactive player space and archiving inactive player itemid list can co-exist and doesnt appear to be an impossible feat (made evident by the fact they hang on to inventories, FC banks, and retainer inventories just fine).
The exact figures were pulled from the 3.1 patch notes (for the days, 45/35) and the 170KB isn't exact (made evident by the 'or so') but how I arrived at that number was very guess work. FF14 uses a gutted/scaled down version of the Luminous Engine. While a bad comparison, i grabbed bits of inventory and code from other games (mostly using the unreal 3 engine) and crammed them into a Notepad++. At a bare bones, the file size was minimal, and since I have no idea how simple or complex that bit of itemID code actually is, i went crazy heavy. At a length of 248187 with 2337 col as a normal text file, that was 242KB, which i felt was probably a good place to start guessing. I compared this with other games i had were i could manipulate inventories and itemIDs. They all clocked in around 50 itemIDs or so at a length around 50k (and i believe small houses were 75 items max, so this brings us closer to a 'good guess'); then i increased the volumn 5 fold to be sure I wasnt low-guessing, but I probably should have just said "likely less an 1MB" or something. I wanted to head off the "its a huge technical burden" train of thought so the best guess I had was Notepad/Notepad++ (free, no license payment required), ball park the itemID count (which is checked against viewing source on the lodestone, for example, Augmented Hellfire Blade is /lodestone/playguide/db/item/24d899483e6/) and multiplied my 75 items and filler code by 5 times to result in that above 170KB guess =D.Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
In regards to the gil sink, i don't really have any informed opinions here, but is it the case that you are maybe suggesting that "they want to remove as much gil as possible to help slow inflation" and possibly are achieving it by something like 'delete that guys stuff/house' because he hasn't logged in? Hehe, cause that wouldn't be very endearing =D. (or, if i do understand you right, is 4/5ths the value not enough of a gil sink? houses are expensive ya know =D, or were).
As stated, never got the emails, but possible I missed them too. However, I am not displeased with the notification system, but the deletion that comes after. And even if the deletion was something I was ok with, I would still advocate some way to restore (mogstation). I don't like the idea of actively trying to prevent resubs (or discouraging indirectly resubbing because the 'limited' housing rolled up is a massive memory burden). I want people like me and other similarly affected folks to be drawn towards returning to Eorzea, not discouraged (but maybe thats wrong as there seems to be strong opposition to the idea of getting back your in-game items that were deleted).Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
I'm not sure I agree that this is in the same vein (most of mogstation is vanity items) but I can certainly say players have offered up a lot of stick, a massive amount more resistance than I would have guessed. Even removing the ignorant (folks that think im advocating taking up a lot) it just flat out seems that other players who haven't had anything deleted absolutely are opposed to potential-returning-players having access to any kind of item restoration of long lost house items/gil. Like, these items were mine. I had them before and i never heard players oppose me having them, but now that they are deleted by SE and I expressed an interest in recovering them, folks seems to REALLY be put out by that. I dunno, maybe the community is more toxic now and not the same place I remember, or always has been and Diabolos is just blessed, but that seems odd to me; i remember a more understanding group and the very story/plot of FF14 basic game revolves around the idea of preserving the memory of those important things, the forgotten faces of the heros (unless the memories are in your house, then delete them forever! Hard work begone! Damn your accomplishments!).Quote:
Originally Posted by worldofneil
I'm not even suggesting it for free, Square is a business so some recompense should be required because the tech needs to get paid, but even with that, the overarching theme of "no, you shouldn't get your stuff back!" caught me off guard (if it was 'your getting something I dont have' then I could chalk it up to general internet-jealously, but this is functionally the same as not wanting your inventory deleted, or, if it is, a way to recover it, at 4/5th the gil).
Alas! Seems like a moot point and I think Scott Pilgram is at least half right if not spot on. People either 1) already know and couldn't care (ive found more opposition than advocates in simply wanting my own character's inventory recovered after SE deletion) and actively don't want to see player items restored by any means, paid or otherwise or 2) people don't know (and by default can't care because they aren't aware).
Stay safe adventurers! Have fun and for gods sake, walk into your house once every 44 days even if you are still subbed!!! Someone come find me on steam if they decide to retcon the deletion decision pretty please!!! :) /id/VentusVero/ (just kidding, though I do hope something changes in the future, I certainly don't have expectations of getting delivered information, hehe) -
09-02-2016, 02:26 AMDonzeSo why would SE have a different policy indeed! At present your player inventory, your FC Bank (confirmed, I have a personal rank 6 FC, for my characters only, so its been inactive as long as i have), and your retainers all have items!!! None of those are deleted from 'inactivity', so, as you say, why would SE have a different policy for housing? (your analogy would be more apt if you had 3-4 storage sheds, and they only sold off one WHILE you were still paying for it. You have to actually go open your storage shed every 45 days regardless of paying or its auctioned off(having an active sub doesnt prevent the deletion, even if your paying, you must still log in and visit said house/vendor)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
So to answer your question noble lalafell, "you say it makes no sense to delete your stuff, but why wouldn't it?" I say that it doesn't make sense to me to hang onto player inventories/gil, 1-4 retainer inventories/gil, or FC inventories/gil (remember FC housing is treated the same as private for inactivity) but to single out housing inventories and delete the items/gil. -
09-02-2016, 09:44 PMcrc0427
It didn't delete your stuff. It should be at the housing caretaker along with 80% of your gil.
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09-02-2016, 10:43 PMworldofneilOnly for 35 days, after that it gets deleted.Quote:
Originally Posted by crc0427
Yes I think you are right and I owe you an apology for my assumption, sorry. I've played this game continously for 3 years without a break and during that time I've read every patch note and the majority of the forum posts by the community team and hang out on the FFXIV sub on reddit so I'd like to think I've not missed any information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donze
But I forget that I do not represent all players and that many players do take breaks and therefore won't necessarily be aware of all changes made. I bet there are probably even players who haven't ever had a break who have missed things in the patch notes etc.
From a player point of view I can see why they would want the data to remain indefinitely (even if you can't get the house back, getting back the items/gil would be something), but I can also see it from Square Enix's point of view that it's less data to have to worry about/bring along/update with future updates and also lets them take currency out of the worlds.
Maybe when housing reclamation goes live in 3.4 (assuming it's not pushed back again) they need to put up one of those popups like they do from time to time to tell people (they'll probably do this anyway), but also point out on there that if it's reclaimed/demolished, you only have 35 days to get your stuff back. I'm sure not everyone would read it, but they can only do so much if they're not going to change the system to keep it forever.