Dungeon Etiquette: a question about Do's and Don'ts

I wasn't exactly sure where this would fit on the boards or if it's really "thread worthy" but i'll ask anyway.

So i'm basically a career tank with very minimal experience or knowledge in every individual job. I don't think thats unreasonable. I'd rather improve in what I already know than expend learning everything in depth for roles/ jobs I have little or no interest in playing myself.

But because of this mentality, it leaves me wondering about the decisions of some DF players or how I could reach out in a dungeon run to make things run smoother.

Just an example, I do the second pull in sohr kai- the 2 or 3 bugs, the fan, the tree, and those flying root things... And i notice the cast bar for the BLM is a fire 1 or fire 3 when theyre already at full fire stacks. I know its more damage for them to throw out fire 2 because AoE or even flare, but since I lack any knowledge in the job as a whole, how can I rightly give "advice" in such things?

who am i to tell them how they should play when i dont know the first thing about it?

I mean this could also be expanded to WHM not using Holy on large pulls, or BRD not properly multi-DoTing and the like.

How does one deal with these minor, but ultimately harmless, annoyances? Is it right to really say anything without a proper background or knowledge and just suck it up?

I usually just roll with it. Unless it's something that'll wipe the run it's not worth making a fuss about.

Of course this is coming from a career DPS so take that with a grain of salt.

As a tank, you have to work harder if people who should be AoEing are not. You are well within your right to tell people to AoE. Especially BLMs, whose AoE rotation is no different at 60 than it is at 50.

You would also have to work harder as a healer if people who should be AoEing are not.
And as a DD.

So really, just tell them to AoE.

Just from my own personal experiences when playing online games, I try to focus on what I am doing, and let the other group members just play how they prefer to play their role. The only time I feel comfortable making suggestions to someone is if the group is not doing very well. Even if it takes a few more minutes to clear the zone, as long as we are not getting killed, I'm not complaining.

And when people have given me tips and tricks on how to play my role in mmorpg, iv always appreciated the ones who waited tell the group was over, and then sent me a private message. So as not to possibly embarrass me in group, as well as giving me time to ask questions or go into a more detailed strategy without holding up other people who were in the group.

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Originally Posted by Masquerade

And when people have given me tips and tricks on how to play my role in mmorpg, iv always appreciated the ones who waited tell the group was over, and then sent me a private message. So as not to possibly embarrass me in group, as well as giving me time to ask questions or go into a more detailed strategy without holding up other people who were in the group.

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In any other game, I'm totally with you on that one. If we had the option, I'd rather take it up in private and offer some real 1-on-1 mentor time. Unfortunately, insofar as duty finder is concerned, due to the nature of data centers, this just isn't an option the vast majority of the time. If we say nothing during the run, no one will ever get better.

I would say
As for the BLM example
If the tank pull 3 mob or less
Single target enochian rotation is viable
If 3+ mobs lv50 ARR rotation is key

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As for giving out advice
I would say that if you do not have the said class/job yourself and play it often
Do not try to advice because it will never be recieve well

Many people try to teach me healing and doesn't even have a lv40 healer and ignore half of the toolkit

To sum up, if you don't play it do not speak xD

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Also whm not using holy means lazy "heal only" player

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Originally Posted by silvermoon383

I usually just roll with it. Unless it's something that'll wipe the run it's not worth making a fuss about.

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I usually do the same. If a healer isn't doing DPS or a Black Mage isn't using AoE on 4+ mobs, I probably won't say anything unless I'm really in a rush or it could lead to a wipe.
For example, if there is only 15 minutes before daily reset and I'm doing my last roulette, I would say something.

I've also spoken up when I've seen a Black Mage only using Blizzard spells...

I generally don't give advice on jobs I haven't leveled though, because my advice might not even be good.

In any case, if you do give advice, I'd recommend being as polite as possible. Some people really offended by the smallest things or take things the wrong way.

If you want to be respectful/considerate about it, especially considering you may lack the complete knowledge, instead of advising, you might simply ask. "Does aoe do more damage for you?" As long as you don't come off too passive aggressive, instead of telling them how they should be playing, it should seem more like you just want to learn.

Not only is it ok to speak up, but you should feel obligated to. Tons of players don't realize using fire 2/flare combo is more dps than spamming fire 1 3 or 4 when there is more than 2 enemies. Having never played a job doesn't mean you don't know the basics on how it works.

If you know for a fact they're not using something that will do more damage and considerably speed up a run/pull, speak up. But you also have to decide when to pick your battles. I had a SCH yesterday for Sohr Kai who was hardly dpsing at all. As someone who plays SCH quite often in roulette (though I am a tank main, like you) it always annoys me when I see SCH who aren't rousing their fairy, throwing down a shield, an adlo, and putting on dots that they bane on big groups. But I didn't say anything. Later on in the dungeon I did notice her using dots on bosses. So I ultimately chalked it up to a playstyle difference. Perhaps she was focused on healing me through large pulls because, after all, I was on DRK and she may have had squishy DRK's.

Your BLM situation could have been called out. As dps at the very least during that nice big pull they could be doing aoe damage and back to back flares.

Unless you are qualified to make an observation and then follow it with some possible explanation as to why or how and when, then leave it be. It's just a matter of preference and some times they may be trying a new rotation or checking out a new skill etc. I just don't like ppl that are playing a char and say hey I main such and such and you do not know what you are doing and proceed to make a big long speech that actually offers no constructive data in it.

Ok.

1. Please play sitting up and try not to lax since it just lowers your overall performance. This is a real bad habit for me.
2. Please be sure to greet everyone and be sure to tell everyone if this is your first time, or that it has been a long time since you've played et cetera.
3. Please make sure to apologize if you feel that you've made a mistake, or something.
4. Be nice and courteous, and just don't act like a jerk. And, try to keep your ego in check.
5. Make sure to tell other party members that you are looking for a certain item in the dungeon. Sometimes players will be nice enough to let you have the item if you are polite.
6. Try to carry extra equipment just in case you are taking too much emnity from the tank, or in cases that you forgot to repair your items
7. Please, save your party's healer.
8. And try your best in losing situations. Some classes have the abilities to turn a bad situation and come out victorious (take that coin counter, yeah XD).
9. Tanks should always use cds in rotations. This creates consistency for healers instead of constant fluctuation in healing demand.
10. Tanks must use their combos and generally follow the rotation of shield lob, flash, flash,
    emnity combo, emnity combo, flash while using cds. Flash should be used periodically to keep up emnity.
11. Position yourself properly according to your job and the boss strategy.

It's basically just common decency and civil discourse. And, that never changes from place to place. So basically, don't be a jerk.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

1. Flash should be used periodically to keep up emnity.

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I agree with pretty much everything but the quoted point, but I disgress.


I am not very knowledgeable on a handful of classes but for the few that I do recognise, I might notice when players are or aren't doing something I don't think is really ideal. I might question it in my head or whatever but I'll never comment on that. Though even with all of that said, if I may point out the elephant in the room then let me just say that I have plenty of days where I am tired, talking a lot on a shell, distracted, a little unused to even my Main(Bard) after spending a lot of time Tanking runs... or am simply feeling clumsy. There are a whole ton of factors that could explain why a player is performing the way that they are when they may otherwise be one of the best players in the game for all you know. I'm guilty of not taking this into account too whenever I find myself spying on some party members' mannerisms, though I suppose I don't chastise myself too much over it since I am not the type to confront people about their playstyle to begin with.

Step 1. Always queue with at least 1 person you know so if you run into a player that's not trying or refuses to do what they should be doing you can ensure a kick.
Step 2. You don't need to know the particulars of each job, every dps should be aoe'ing when there's 4+ mobs. Some it's technically 3 but the difference is too minor to worry about.
Step 3. Be as polite or not as you feel like, but don't suffer through an unnecessarily slow run in silence, ask what's up after the first pull. Then refer them to step 2, then kick if they refuse or continue to not do what they should be doing, because they're essentially asking to be carried. I've started just point blank asking "will you start aoe'ing next pull?" and if they don't reply to say I'm taking it as a no if they don't reply, before booting them. (I only have English selected for queue so if they are with me they either understand that or are queueing improperly...or are a bot).

I would say that I like MPNZ's list

Except the 6th point which is truue only if you do not have level up Crafter
Because otherwise just carry what you need to repair and it's ok
(Plus... Self repair stuff last longer)

6th point is borderline ridiculous, carry extra equipment to use so you don't pull hate off the tank? Even if it was a good idea to undergear yourself for that purpose you could just remove accessories.

Before critiquing anyone I look at their gear and class levels.
If it's their highest class and I know what the best thing to do it, I'll ask if I can give them advice (I have the BLM AoE explanation in a macro because almost everyone does it wrong).
For DPS classes I haven't played I usually just ask if they can AoE when we have 3 or more mobs.

For Healers, if I see them standing around doing jack all, and no one is dying quickly I ask if they can please use Cleric Stance once in a while.

If the tank is losing hate I ask them to rotate their targets and use Flash a bit more.

For BLM and NIN though I can give rotation advice etc, the other classes is just things people may not know (like it's always better to AoE than single-target on 3+ mobs even as a NIN which has the worst AoE rotation).

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

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It's just something that I've been doing since Duty Roulette was implemented, because I was often pulling hate from lower level and under-geared tanks. Removing the accessories really does a lot though! But, there were still a lot of times when doing that just wasn't enough, and I had to equip gathering or crafting gear in order to not pull hate/aggroe.

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

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I have no excuses. It just totally slips my mind sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

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I don't criticize player's unless it's totally necessary either. It's very rare that I'ver ever had to. But, doing that really helps, because players just tend to target whatever they want to instead of just focusing on a single target as a group. And, when you are under-geared for a dungeon. It's just a QoL thing.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

I don't criticize player's unless it's totally necessary either. It's very rare that I'ver ever had to. But, doing that really helps, because players just tend to target whatever they want to instead of just focusing on a single target as a group. And, when you are under-geared for a dungeon. It's just a QoL thing.

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Oh while I can't bring myself to do it I am not again it per sé. In fact, often times I am silently praising a person for speaking my(and their) mind on my behalf. It's a difficult topic for me; on one hand I feel like I might be able to be useful and offer advice on any small thing when I am sure there is something they are doing that is far from ideal - such as just today when I had a new-ish Bard singing Ballad constantly when no-one needed MP - though on another, I can't help but think about the way it can come across to the other person. If someone really wanted, they could call me on not multi-DoT'ing enemies or whatever when I am not really focusing on the run, and while they may have the best intentions, I must admit that I might feel a little jarred by that. On the outside I'd certainly apologise and explain that I am simply distracted at the moment, but in my head I bet I'd be thinking: "....why are you telling me how to play? I'm not holding us back, just get on with the run".

(My previous comment was aimed at the topic in general by the way, only the first line was a direct response to you ^^ Maybe you figured as much but I thought I'd mention it since I felt that it can sound a bit abrasive were it aimed at any one person I think!)

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Originally Posted by Knahli

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Oh! Sorry, I thought it was pointed at me, because of the quotes. Also, just as long as it's not a big enough detriment to the party: mistakes and non-optimal rotations and equipment are perfectly fine. It's not like every piece of content is like a super hardcore raid.