Okay, so first of all, let me be honest! I've only been leveling this job since Saturday. This is the grounds for me being lost. I'm trying to be useful, but I can't! And I'm not being lazy! Every time I cast an AoE (which is the only way worth casting in these partys that take on 15 mobs at a time at level 44) debuff or nuke on a large group of 7-8 mobs I immediately generate the enmity of a single mob or two (or sometimes all of them) and die within seconds! This makes me useless! All I can do is Sacrifice II which is very minimal at this point in the game, and also draws a large amount of attention to me which sometimes kills me. Sac II is worthless compared to a a CNJ who can Curaga and then survive the oncoming blows of the horde! So I've tried just doing a modest Poison II/Dia II/Bio II combo, but even that gets me hate that kills me! I feel like a fragile baby paper glass crane! I don't know what I can do to earn my keep! Please help me out!
Substantially "Lost" in Function as Partying Thaumaturge
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11-09-2011, 07:22 AMTaylor_MorrisSubstantially "Lost" in Function as Partying Thaumaturge
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11-09-2011, 07:27 AMBabydoll
I have the same issue :( I am just looking forward to 1.20, hoping they fix enmity and class balance. All I do is use Sacrifice II and Cure..:/
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11-09-2011, 07:29 AMRentahamster
When the tank/puller aggros a mob, they have hate on that mob. If other mobs link due to that action, they will initially aggro the puller/tank. However, their level of hate is at the absolute minimum that it can be. That means that any action on your part, no matter how small, on those linked mobs will make them aggo you instead. You have to wait until the tank and/or the rest of the DDs establish hate on all the mobs before you start indiscriminately AOEing.
This is why Marauder is a good tank in multi-mob situations - MRD has lots of AOE abilities that can establish enough hate so that your poison won't pull aggro in the first few moments of the fight.
In summary: Your tank doesn't know how to properly tank multiple mobs, and you aren't dealing with them in the proper manner. -
11-09-2011, 08:03 AMslipmacpoor design imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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11-09-2011, 08:10 AMTaylor_MorrisBy the time you have established hate on 14 enemies protecting you the only spells you have that are worth a crap are only long-term effective. DoT, weak nukes that build DoT, short-term buffs, weak single-target heals and some 3-minute ability that you have to be close to dead to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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11-09-2011, 08:24 AMRentahamster
How to play THM in a stronghold party:
Buff your teammates.
Wait for the tank to pull everything.
When you see that all the aggro mobs' names are red, and that the tank and/or the other melees have at least done around 100 or do damage to all or most of the mobs, cast stoneskin II on the tank.
Cast paralyze on the mobs.
Cast slow on the mobs (optional).
Cast Banish II or Scourge II ( the tanks and DDs should have generated enough hate by now that you should not grab hate. If your spell does 200 damage, then as long as someone else did 200+ damage to that mob, you won't get aggro).
Keep nuking.
Recast stonekin II on the tank whenver you can.
Cure the tank or anyone else who needs it.
When the mobs have about 20% HP left, Chainspell > Shadowsear.
Use profundity, blood rite, and dark seal when applicable.
Use invigorate to generate TP. Use Shadowfall in a group to generate an instant 3k TP if there are enough mobs.
Use Second Wind II to heal yourself in a pinch.
Use Leg Sweep to stun the mobs.
Do it right, and you can outparse shitty MRDs. -
11-09-2011, 08:27 AMCycloptichorn
egg-sactly
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11-09-2011, 08:26 PMUmoVery cool "guide" Rentahamster, pretty accurate indeed. The problem for OP is THIS. So basically, he/she can't do most of the things you've pointed out. No good buffin', no Chainspell for Shadowsearing, no Profundity / Invigorate / Second Wind / Leg Sweep (not even tier I)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
I bet this is the result of PL + poor character development. Hell, he/she didn't even get Guild Mark skills (Firm Conviction, Silhouette, Shadowfall...).
In this situation my only advice would be waiting until all the mobs are correctly aggroed and cast Dark Seal II + AoE Paralyze before nuking. Obviously, start paying attention to character development and keep PL to a minor degree.
PS On a side note, 15 mobs at the same time? IIRC there were 6-7 linked mobs everytime I had been to strongholds. The "Hero" title is related to Grand Company seals gaining, you know... Joking aside, be careful when pulling u.u' -
11-10-2011, 02:00 AMNaqajThe trick is finding a way to work around it. Or finding a hamster who knows ...Quote:
Originally Posted by slipmac
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11-10-2011, 09:18 AMRentahamster$5 per hour. Very cheap rate. I throw in free alfalfa, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naqaj
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11-10-2011, 09:40 AMDestain
Wait for the tank(s) to war drum or warmonger before you cast anything if ur unsure. Btw properly equipped THM u should be able to hold the attention of a grind mob or two for a bit w/o dieing. !gasp! U might have to level some other classes in order to round out your character as well. Best of luck
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11-12-2011, 09:47 PMDarkArchon
What do you do to Soughspeak? lol
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11-17-2011, 06:16 AMlordvr
Why would you ever use Second Wind on a mage if you have to be active mode to get tp in order to use it.
It's never worth being in active mode as a mage since it cancels your mp regen. -
11-17-2011, 06:46 AMRentahamsterIt's useful for long boss fights, such as Ifrit. As long as you are engaged in combat with an enemy, you can be in passive mode and not lose TP. That is how you can build up 3k TP at the start of the Ifrit fight, then use that for Second Wind for the rest of the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordvr
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11-17-2011, 07:15 AMAratharnInvigorate.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordvr
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11-17-2011, 07:24 AMAbauge_GogaI never engage Ifrit on my THM. I just use Absorb TP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
You can use the Absorb spell on everything. The only time I would engage any mobs on THM if there are 1 or 2 left and I don't have to conserve MP for some reason.
At OP's comments: all you need to do is wait for an aoe voke. Paralyze/Slow/Bio, etc will not get you agro. However, i wouldn't heal anyone without Out of Sight or Soughspeak as THM until the tank did an aoe WS and further secured hate.
For one, THM healing is inferior to a CON healing where the agro you gain stays the same. -
11-17-2011, 07:33 AMRentahamsterBeing on the hate table against an enemy = you are engaged to that enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga
Unless by "engaged" you mean "being in active mode", which isn't what I was talking about. -
11-17-2011, 07:37 AMSephrickLet me tell you a little story of leveling mages in XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_Morris
Me: {Hello!} {Red Mage} {Do you need it?}
Party leader: Can you main heal?
Me: {Hello!} {Black Mage} {Do you need it?}
Party leader: Can you main heal?
Me: {Hello!} {Summoner} {Do you need it?}
Party leader: Can you main heal?
Me: {Hello!} {Dancer} {Do you need it?}
Party leader: Can you main heal?
So too, sadly, is this true of XIV. Especially when mages are in such short supply. Level CNJ for CureI/II and keep that party alive! -
11-17-2011, 11:52 AMAtoliQuote:
Originally Posted by Taylor_Morris
I see some relation between those facts..:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Character Information of Taylor Morris
That's why I call people stupid who Plvl to 50 in a few days and have no idea how aggro management works and how they are supposed to play their class.. -
11-18-2011, 06:04 AMDanaviaAre you saying that a THM casting "Cure III" would gain the same +emnity as a CNJ casting "Cure III"? Well that's not true unless the THM puts out the same number of healed HP as a CNJ, which doesn't happen so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga