Patch 3.4 - Soul Surrender

I figured we could do with a new thread to discuss/speculate some of this, and well... Everything I knew is a lie...

We will get a trial or instance with the WoD's, fire circule :o

Great Gumball Library (Hard)?! Excuse me while I scream into the Void at the lack of Snowcloak (Hard)...

Xelphatol as the other dungeon... Pushing towards Ala Mhigo I guess, but damn... My heart can't take this... First Mhach, now this... These could be whole zones on their own, not instances... /cries

On a more... Positive note? Alexander makes me happy... This in particular fans my theory that the planet/Hydaelyn is just a really big Primal...

Oh, Sophia is the next for the Warring Triad? Let me get back to screaming...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Great Gumball Library (Hard)?! Excuse me while I scream into the Void at the lack of Snowcloak (Hard)...

Xelphatol as the other dungeon... Pushing towards Ala Mhigo I guess, but damn... My heart can't take this... First Mhach, now this... These could be whole zones on their own, not instances... /cries

On a more... Positive note? Alexander makes me happy... This in particular fans my theory that the planet/Hydaelyn is just a really big Primal...

Oh, Sophia is the next for the Warring Triad? Let me get back to screaming...

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So Xelphatol being a dungeon, means that it will not be a zone for 4.0?

I called it there will not be Snowcloak hard because its music was added at 3.3 ^^
I guess we will have one other of the Heavensward dungeon as hard for 3.5 too.
With the Gubal Library back, could we expect to have access to the lore of Eorzea via books ?

I hope we could visit Xelphatol later on 4.0.
It's an area too big to be just one dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

So Xelphatol being a dungeon, means that it will not be a zone for 4.0?

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Well, I guess we got Snowcloak and Coerthas Western Highlands...

Wonder why we're going into Xelphatol exactly... Oh... Right... The new housing stuff would appear to be accessed from the existing housing zones, does that leave that Lily Hills line of speculation free for something else now? Xelphatol has Ixali enemies, so one hopes for a return to conflicts with the old beast tribes... Damlet Hefense? Pleeeeeeeaseeeee...

Anyone able to translate some of the UI elements show? Wondrous Tails sounds like my new favorite content by virtue of involving my favorite NPC, and GC Platoons looks... Far more involved than I was expecting... Still kinda looks like GC Ventures, though...

I'm calling it though... The big bad truth is that Hydaelyn is a Primal... We had Bahamut, with an oddly familiar crystal heart... Now we've got Alexander, much larger and able to sustain a small civilization, with a familiar blue crystal heart... The planet is a Primal... That's got to be it... We exist to fight Primals... If we knew what Hydaelyn truly was... Who would we side with... Nope, Elidibus, that's still not going to work... I kinda need a planet to live on...

This look like a desert area, could this be somewhere in Thanalan or possibly where Yda and Papalymo (and the Masks) are hiding?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...5&d=1472271161

Xelphaltol being a dungeon was surprising, I wonder if this is what the Masks were planning? Afterall, Xelphaltol borders Gyr Abania/ Ala Mhigo.

"Soul Surrender" is quite an interesting title since it can be interpreted in that plenty of people have "surrendered" their souls: Dayun (Mide's BF) sucked into Alaxanders core, Ixal's devotion to Garuda,Minfilia giving herself up to Hydaelyn. Wonder if the WoD gave up something similar.

I can't wait till we find out more about The Truth

I think Xephlatol will probably just be something along the lines of trying to find a route to the Ala Mhigo Front that avoids detection by the Garleans or something, hence what better way than right through a beastmen area where the Garleans would never think we would go? I doubt the Great Gubal Library (Hard) will be for anything other than a side story that is not directly connected with the main scenario though.

Really I'm most looking forward to facing down Evil!Derplander and his cronies... although that image seemed to show the elezen female BLM preparing a BLM Limit Break.... (as pointed out to me by a FC friend), which is going to suck....

Either way, can't wait til the end of September!

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Well, I guess we got Snowcloak and Coerthas Western Highlands...

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Bu the dungeon was called Snowcloak, not "western Highlands". This place has the very same name than the big zone or country.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I think Xephlatol will probably just be something along the lines of trying to find a route to the Ala Mhigo Front that avoids detection by the Garleans or something, hence what better way than right through a beastmen area where the Garleans would never think we would go? I doubt the Great Gubal Library (Hard) will be for anything other than a side story that is not directly connected with the main scenario though.

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We had no confirmation that the dungeon has a relation whatsoever with the main scenario or did we?

I just noticed...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...3&d=1472272003

That Ixali has two pistols... Am I interested that they have that kind of technology? Am I perhaps speculating Sky Pirate Ixali? Nope, I'm annoyed I don't get to dual wield pistols... Excuse me while I add to my Phoenix Wright style freak out...

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Originally Posted by myahele

This look like a desert area, could this be somewhere in Thanalan or possibly where Yda and Papalymo (and the Masks) are hiding?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...5&d=1472271161

Xelphaltol being a dungeon was surprising, I wonder if this is what the Masks were planning? Afterall, Xelphaltol borders Gyr Abania/ Ala Mhigo.

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This trial (solo or with people) will be in Black Shroud, I think.
It would be nice if in Xelphatol we could have a hint for the possible return of Garuda ^^ (for a savage mode)

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I just noticed...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/a...3&d=1472272003

That Ixali has two pistols...

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Machinist 4.0 :) or Pirate/Corsair --> Ixali sky pirate

I think Wondrous Tails is the next Mogpost Quest in some way, involving lore + mini-games + rewards.
On the different images we can see Ifrit or Ramuh. Maybe we will learn more about them ?

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

I think Wondrous Tails is the next Mogpost Quest in some way, involving lore + mini-games + rewards.
On the different images we can see Ifrit or Ramuh. Maybe we will learn more about them ?

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I'm hoping it's a justification to do old content... I've long since been suggesting something along the lines of having Coil/2.x Primals drop items that get you into a new instance to make the old content more relevant. Seems the ideal way to add the Primal minions, fight Ifrit (EX), get access to a fight against some Ixali for Lore/etc., maybe a wind-up Ifrit... Obviously that hasn't happened, but it was just one possible way to add new relevance to old content... Having that adorable little kitten send me off to fight Ifrit and Ramuh, for whatever reason, can achieve the same thing. I actually find low manning old content more entertaining than the current content, honestly...

Can see some tomestones and Allagan pieces (yay more Gil, just what I need...), not sure if they're the new tomestones or not, but Thancreds crotch whatever they're censoring might be the more interesting reward...

So apartments are being added to the existing housing areas huh? And here I thought they were adding them to Ishgard...suppose the dream of an Ishgard Housing Area remains just that.

I'm still mulling over a lot of the new information, though I'm still not feeling all that confident in the future-prediction game this patch cycle. Time itself seems to play into the reflected worlds a bit more than it seemed like at first. Perhaps its entwined with the possibility that the Warriors of Darkness are from one of the other reflections (perhaps the one that was but recently destroyed in the Seventh Umbral Calamity). Though it doesn't seem like the worlds can be too similar; Unukalhai's world seemed to be on a different track entirely ... unless he's very old and we no longer have records of when our world diverged from a similar path. Still, I get the sense that some of these hints about time aren't just nods to us currently dealing with Alexander.

The name of the patch is ominous as well. Soul Surrender...

Don't tell me we've already forgotten...

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Originally Posted by Ascian Prime

Come, mortals! Render up your souls, that Lord Zodiark might be reborn!

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Hmmm...

It'd be lame to all-out carbon-copy Promathia, right? So what's on the table...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

This in particular fans my theory that the planet/Hydaelyn is just a really big Primal...

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How literally and specifically do you mean "primal"? Many living things are aetherial and crystalline within. Sprites have crystals at their cores. People and animals can develop internal crystals if their aether gets funky (and then they get a snurble probiscis in the spine). The world could have a crystalline core without being the manifestation of belief or the resurrected shade of a former being. Granted, one of the main reasons I hold out hope for Hydaelyn is that faith in Altana was rewarded; it feels wrong to give up on Her. But one game is not another.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

How literally and specifically do you mean "primal"?

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/Shrugs

I'm mostly just connecting dots I'm likely making up... When Bahamut had a crystal heart, I thought little of it... It was an oddity given what we'd seen of other Primals (granted, Titan had a heart), but Bahamut was an oddity... Not only was he massive, but he was also torn apart and reconstructed... When Alexander came about, nothing really changed until Quickthinx responded to claims that Alexander would drain the land of aether; They'd be safe in Alexander, with him providing them aether... That got me thinking how far you could take a Primal... If they'd truly be safe within Alexander, what's stopping us summoning a planet sized Primal and just living off that? What if that's already happened... This very familiar blue crystal in Alexander is just another string in this web of lunacy... Other than that, there's just conjecture based on the Scions goals and Elidibus' claims that the truth would have us join forces... The Scions have made a career of putting down Primals... The planet is a Primal... Mind blown! Fireworks! Directed by M. Night Shyamalanadingdong!

Those apartments are pretty and all, but wheres my Ishgard building?

Im glad that they've making rooms for the other city states too though! Housing on Balmung is the pits.

Gubal instead of Snowcloak. Well that was a Curveball.

But yay we get another Beastmen Dungeon, (Pharos Sirius HM, Nevereap and now Xelphatol)

Was "Soul Sacrifice" taken or something? Oh, wait...

As for Gumball, my guess is that if any HW dungeons are going to get hard modes, now is their last chance. 4.0 can't add content requiring 3.0, because MMO expansions have to be able to run with just the base game. What this also means is that underutilized zones like Azys Lla may very well stay that way and can't factor into the plot after 3.X.

The Triad story better be impressive.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

As for Gumball, my guess is that if any dungeons are going to get hard modes, now is their last chance. 4.0 can't add content requiring 3.0, because MMO expansions have to be able to run with just the base game.

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FIFY :P

Jokes aside, Didn't WoW lump their xpacs into the base game when the new one comes out? I cna see something similar happening here. Theother possibility beingthatthere will be some aspects that will be gated behind 3.0 (particularity flight)

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Was "Soul Sacrifice" taken or something? Oh, wait...

As for Gumball, my guess is that if any HW dungeons are going to get hard modes, now is their last chance. 4.0 can't add content requiring 3.0, because MMO expansions have to be able to run with just the base game. What this also means is that underutilized zones like Azys Lla may very well stay that way and can't factor into the plot after 3.X.

The Triad story better be impressive.

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I've never seen an MMO that didn't require all previous expansions barring perhaps GW1 (which is rather unique and isn't a typical MMO). Where are you getting the notion that expansions have to be compatible with just the base game?

Another full potential region made into a linear instance dungeon... this games world is just getting smaller and smaller. I really hope Xelphatol is also opened up into an actual zone even if that doesn't happen until 4.0.

Looks like the Demon is finally stepping out of the Book.

The more I think about it, the more I think both dungeons would be important to the MSQ, The Library became the setting for a certain meeting that I;m sure the Scions will know about soon and Xelphatol is on the way to Ala Mhigo.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

I've never seen an MMO that didn't require all previous expansions barring perhaps GW1 (which is rather unique and isn't a typical MMO). Where are you getting the notion that expansions have to be compatible with just the base game?

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EverQuest expansions were individual installs that you could mix-and-match for a very long time, before they gave in and adopted the WoW distribution model. Final Fantasy XI expansions are also (technically) independent, with occasional caveats like Abyssea requiring Rise of the Zilart and Wings of the Goddess, but not the other two in between. Star Wars: The Old Republic lets you skip to the current expansion and has never required the previous expansions. And so on.

The usual marketing assumption is that you'll want all of them, so they make it as easy as possible with discounts and combo packs and such, but seeing as the FFXIV launcher is set up for individual expansion installs and version updates, I'm guessijng they'll be independent for at least a little while longer. At the very least, it wouldn't surprise me.

But did they say that Xelphatol is a MSQ dungeon?

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

But did they say that Xelphatol is a MSQ dungeon?

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Well it certainly isnt accessible by foot like say st mochians or the library or any of the previous dungeons, so I'd also assume its probably a part of msq.If not though, interestingly enough theres another area that borders northern lominsa that we cant access(you can se the volcano area from hermits hovel off in the distance near camp overlook) would be cool to see that region as well.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

But did they say that Xelphatol is a MSQ dungeon?

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No; I get the feeling that Gubal (Hard) is going to be the MSQ dungeon this time around and Xelphatol is going to be the first 3.x "patch" new dungeon that isn't MSQ. (Well, after St. Moccaine's, which was a bit of a letdown because it wasn't MSQ if you ask me.)

As for the ominous patch title... holy crabs but I'm going to take a "wait and see" approach before committing to anything. People thought a 3.1 MSQ quest titled "Against the Dying of the Light" was super scray, but it ended up being... well, a bit scray but not for the reasons we anticipated (Aymeric biting it vs. religious fanatics trying to maintain Ishgard's status quo using any possible means).

Interesting they're putting Sophia before Zurvan. The Triad is usually listed in order of "Fiend, Demon, Goddess." Disappointed no images!

Looks like I'm going to have to put away the cyborg ninja'ing for a day or so to finally finish T5-14... or maybe I won't so I can document the differences... I'm in a bit of a dilemma as a cyborg ninja anyway... and the oppression is real, folks...

Excited to finally get to punch Darklander's smug prick face in, unless this ends up being like your standard shonen manga and we get thrashed by them again!

Not much else to do but wait with bated breath.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

No; I get the feeling that Gubal (Hard) is going to be the MSQ dungeon this time around and Xelphatol is going to be the first 3.x "patch" new dungeon that isn't MSQ.

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I feel it's the opposite. Hard mode dungeons are never linked to future stories in the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I feel it's the opposite. Hard mode dungeons are never linked to future stories in the MSQ.

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Yeah, but there's no reason they can't mix it up. Besides, we know Elidibus, Darklander, Urianger, and Alisae have all been seen in a post-patch stinger there, and with all that eldritch and forbidden lore, it feels like a vastly underutilized asset since all we did was jump in and get the designs for a magitek battering ram.

It just feels like it'll be MSQ relevant, y'know?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Well it certainly isnt accessible by foot like say st mochians or the library or any of the previous dungeons, so I'd also assume its probably a part of msq.If not though, interestingly enough theres another area that borders northern lominsa that we cant access(you can se the volcano area from hermits hovel off in the distance near camp overlook) would be cool to see that region as well.

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I dont understand what you are tring to say...The starting zone of a dungeon and it's relation with the MSQ are different things.....

As far as I remember they had no problem in saing that Sor Khai was going to be a MSQ dungeon at the start, this time they havent say anything.

My assumption is that we arent gonna have a msq dungeon now

The Wandering Minstral also says something that I think foreshadows events from 3.4, maybe even beyond?
https://i.imgur.com/Vt94efP.png

I am thinking it might have to do with the Aetherial Sea. So probably have to do with Hydaelyn/Zodiark and maybe even "The Source"
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/f03...a629018c_3.png

Oh right, we're finally getting back to the Scholasticate quests as well, glad those haven't been forgotten about but... Guess the Doman Adventurers' Guild has been...

OK, so we need to do Binding coil for the different text. Yay...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Yeah, but there's no reason they can't mix it up. Besides, we know Elidibus, Darklander, Urianger, and Alisae have all been seen in a post-patch stinger there, and with all that eldritch and forbidden lore, it feels like a vastly underutilized asset since all we did was jump in and get the designs for a magitek battering ram.

It just feels like it'll be MSQ relevant, y'know?

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Considering that 3.4 is going to tease events leading towards 4.0, Xenaphotl (or however that's spelled) is the most logical choice to be a MSQ dungeon due to it being near Ala Mihgo.

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

OK, so we need to do Binding coil for the different text. Yay...

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Do you really want to pressure yourself to clear the Coil just for a few words changed in the script?

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Originally Posted by MPNZ

OK, so we need to do Binding coil for the different text. Yay...

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Pretty sure you can go in Unsynced and just steamroll it, so it's not like it's a huge hurdle. Just get half a dozen other people who still need it.

Torn between whether or not I want to do it, or just leave it as is so I can document the differences (since 99% +/- 0.9% of story players are going to have done it for that different text).

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Pretty sure you can go in Unsynced and just steamroll it, so it's not like it's a huge hurdle. Just get half a dozen other people who still need it.

Torn between whether or not I want to do it, or just leave it as is so I can document the differences (since 99% +/- 0.9% of story players are going to have done it for that different text).

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Honestly, if you don't have it done it may be better to not finish it. Just because of that.

Both my lv60 characters had FCoB done before HW launched, so if I want to see the non-Coil dialog I have to get a third character through the MSQ (which is something I am planning on doing eventually, but don't have the time to right now)


EDIT: And yes, Coil is super easy to do right now unsynced. I'm sure you can get people to run you through easy if you asked around or threw up a PF.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Honestly, if you don't have it done it may be better to not finish it. Just because of that.

Both my lv60 characters had FCoB done before HW launched, so if I want to see the non-Coil dialog I have to get a third character through the MSQ (which is something I am planning on doing eventually, but don't have the time to right now)

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Well, for now we will have just 1 chanse to see the different dialog.

Remember that on the Unbending Journey we have always the default dialog. Like if we would have never done the required quests.

Ew, why would anyone want to blow through Coil with zero challenge? You solo/duo/trio that crap or... IDK, you're not invited to my birthday party or something!

OK, but seriously, September 27th? Hmm, 4ish weeks... This might be the reasoning I needed to finally finish Final Coil, assuming the Wondrous Tails log isn't going to give me plenty of reason to jump back in there frequently (I spy T4 and T6 on the bottom line). Been a while since we last tried to duo Bahamut... Doubt the line is going to be massively important though, sounds like it'll just be a nod to the fact that Coil happened, not any form of continuation... Grow a pair SE! Lock the new MSQ behind Final Coil and give Alisaie Phoenix-Egi! Like everyones said, you can steam roll it these days, if ticking a box is more important than enjoying content... One off nods are better than nothing I guess, but it still doesn't make for a particularly good narrative IMO... "I have acknowledged that that was a thing that happened. Now we must never speak of it again and it cannot impact the plot in the slightest from here on...", that's kinda what killed Mass Effect for me...

Phoenix, Crystal Tower... Heck, Dr. Whothinxs Allthoughts and the Nullstone... All seem like very interesting points that could be pulled into the story proper... Instead they're relegated off to side stories and aren't even tied together (Nullstone + Crystal Tower = much enjoyment), because God forbid that people have to actually play the game! Doesn't even need to be MSQ stuff... Tales of the Dragonsong War was an optional set of side quests to tie up Heavensward nicely... Just give me that for stuff like Binding Coil and Crystal Tower... We can tell Tiamat that we've put down Nidhoggs shade, but not Bahamuts? Mehhhhhh... I want to slap Cid in the face with Puss in Boots so we can crack open Crystal Tower and go Nullstone Cloud of Dankness' face for an actual satisfying ending to that saga...

Guess I'll just hold out hope for Deep Dungeons 2, which is apparently definitely a thing and Palace of the Dead is ending on Floor 200... Gonna need a new location for that, and Eureka still strikes me as the absolute prime candidate... If they can finish up our little tragedy with Edda in Palace of the Dead, they can damn well do something similar for Crystal Tower and Deep Dungeons 2: The Forbidden Land, Eureka!

September 27th is a pretty good date. It gives the hype surrounding Legion time to die down and it also means that 3.5 will probably be at some point in January. I'm guessing the release date played a small part in FFXV's delay though...but at least that is due out towards December.

It'll be interesting to see how the Alexander situation is wrapped up. Honestly I don't particularly like the story - I feel as though Alexander should have been linked to some sort of cult to play up the classic 'holy' element that it has boasted throughout most of its appearances. If nothing else, though, the fights themselves will be pretty fun I think.

Sophia being the second of the Triad fights surprises me. With her statue being the most prominent I figured she'd the third encounter. Given how impressive Sephirot's fight was, though, I think she'll be pretty awesome. Assuming they go with tasteful music for her and not something like Shiva Phase 2...


Xephatol being a dungeon rather than a zone is unusual. Mhach could have been its own zone after all - especially since we're in dire need of a huge outdoor explorable zone along the lines of Lea Monde or Nabudis from Vagrant Story and FFXII. It could be that we go there again in 4.0 but I think it's much more likely that we don't and that if 4.0 is Ala Mhigo we may end up going somewhere else as well. Thavanair perhaps - which would fit, I guess, if 4.0 is the 'Sea' to 3.0's 'Sky'.

Gubal (Hard) is also surprising but...at the same time it isn't. We'll likely go there to find out what Elidibus and the Warriors of Darkness were doing. Alisae will be our excuse for that given what she saw.

The 'battle' against the Warriors of Darkness will likely be some sort of mini-duty rather than it's own Trial. Which also means it probably won't do them much justice and we'll probably see the WoL thrash them. I doubt that they'll be killed off but I do hope we get a 'Beatrix' moment and they absolutely thrash the WoL for a change. At this point it's sorely needed because the WoL's power is becoming tiresome - especially when Hydaelyn is supposed to be barely holding on. Let her 'Blessing' start to waver at key points to show how high the stakes really are and the WoL related stuff should become more engaging.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The 'battle' against the Warriors of Darkness will likely be some sort of mini-duty rather than it's own Trial. Which also means it probably won't do them much justice and we'll probably see the WoL thrash them. I doubt that they'll be killed off but I do hope we get a 'Beatrix' moment and they absolutely thrash the WoL for a change. At this point it's sorely needed because the WoL's power is becoming tiresome - especially when Hydaelyn is supposed to be barely holding on. Let her 'Blessing' start to waver at key points to show how high the stakes really are and the WoL related stuff should become more engaging.

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Exactly when and where the battle will take place... who knows. It looks like it's in a desert region, but beyond that we can only guess - Thanalan, perhaps, but that's not exactly the closest to Ala Mhigo. If it were part of an instanced duty they wouldn't need the ring of fire, so it's probably an instanced fight as part of a quest.

Given this looks like the prologue to 4.0, I fully expect us to get our butts kicked as per shonen standard. If they're supposed to be our rivals, they need to come onto the stage strong and have us work to overcome them throughout 4.0. If we manage to trounce them there and soon, with no negative repercussions on our side, I'm calling shenanigans.

Really, for how rivalries are supposed to work just look at Devil May Cry 3: Dante loses his first battle against Vergil, duels him to a draw in the second, and defeats him in the third. I'm expecting it to play out similarly here, and the "fight" we had with them in Loth ast Gnath doesn't count by virtue of the fact they weren't trying and we never got to cross blades with Darlander's smug prick face.