Nidhogg EX should be in DF

So that people on dead servers can actually get in there and get some practice with like minded individuals on other dead servers.

I know it's an old fight, but I'm back after a long break and could use a 230 weapon.

What would it hurt?

Edit: Been trying for the past few days to get a LP up and no luck because people on Goblin just wanna do old primals for ponies.

Ex Primals are always added to the DF one patch after they were released. We should see Nidhogg on the DF in 3.4.
The development team is considering adding the current Ex Primal to the Raid Finder but as far as I know we haven't gotten confirmation of that being implemented next patch.

Yes. Please add to RF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moomba33

The development team is considering adding the current Ex Primal to the Raid Finder but as far as I know we haven't gotten confirmation of that being implemented next patch.

---

I hope so, I hate having to wait for PF just to Practice. They should release it in Duty Finder on day one. I don't get why they lock it to only PF for awhile. By the time they do release it in Duty Finder nothing changes. 99% of the time the party running EX in duty finder will be new because the farmers have already got what they wanted and will avoid Duty Finder. Leaving just the new people who haven't cleared. I know I avoid it after I've cleared in PF on day one and got what I wanted. So why lock it out of duty finder?

Exactly. At least in DF/RF you have people with a common goal. Even if most of the time the groups will just break up after one out two wipes. There will be exceptions, and sometimes you will stumble across a group that wants to stick around and progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BushWookie

Exactly. At least in DF/RF you have people with a common goal. Even if most of the time the groups will just break up after one out two wipes. There will be exceptions, and sometimes you will stumble across a group that wants to stick around and progress.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalafellDown

99% of the time the party running EX in duty finder will be new because the farmers have already got what they wanted and will avoid Duty Finder.

---

Farm/clear groups wouldn't use DF anyway, the chance of running into someone new/bad is a deterrant. This is the reason that the raid finder (and in future the cross server PF) was designed in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Farm/clear groups wouldn't use DF anyway, the chance of running into someone new/bad is a deterrant. This is the reason that the raid finder (and in future the cross server PF) was designed in the first place.

---

What? Perhaps i wasn't clear enough.

I know people wouldn't run DF after they got their clear in PF. So you agree they should add the new EX runs in duty finder on day one for people to practice and attempt to clear. Whats the point of it unlocking in DF afterwards when no one does the EX run anyway. The skill level would be the same as if they released the EX run on day one, nothing but new people. Clear/Farm parties wouldn't run DF on day one or anytime after anyways

So why lock EX runs on day one?

Extreme trials have never been released in DF on day one simply because people learn at different speeds. There isn't a way to find out how far people are in the fight in duty finder. With the current addition of the Raid Finder, there is a possibility to trim your needs to what you're looking for, example, brand new person, to final phase/clear party, and anywhere in between. Like Moomba33 said, it was suggested, and the devs are looking into adding it to Raid finder. I personally think current EX content should be restricted just as it is now, but with the exception of adding it to Raid Finder. This sort of content doesn't need to be in the Duty finder on day one, as its difficulty is pretty relative to some savage turns, and like I said at the beginning, you have no way of knowing where people are in the fight, and if you're looking for a paticular bit to try and work on and practice, you will just end up wasting your's and other peoples time.

It might have something to do with the fact that the Japanese players usually use PF for training and DF for farms, the exact opposite of what we do (or would do if we could).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BushWookie

What would it hurt?

---

Just my thoughts on that:

1) It would hurt the content (as in: future content) if it went directly into DF. When making content for the DF the devs have to balance it in a way that allows the avarege player at that point to clear it within the time limit. If thats not given we would see tones of threads like "nerf XY!". The content might not be to difficult, but they have to balance it around the chance that half of your party will be morons, so its natuarlly easier. (Dont tell me "yeah, but its expert, so everyone should know only to queue when they're ready!". People dont do that. We know that. Heck, every other clear or even farm party you join on my server seems to has one person in it who sneaked in and doesnt know the fight at all.)
-> Ex-Primals direct to DF: Either SE has to deal with massive complains OR they simply make easier version of those fights

2) It would hurt the community. People queuing with languages, they dont understand (or simply not willing to communicate). People barely geared enough for the fight. Different knowledge of the fight etc. etc. All that can easly lead to a massive kick-outrage, people complaining about being wrongfully kicked etc.

3) It will barely help anyone to really practice the fight, let alone clear it. Try and queue up for the old EX-primals and see what happens. I'm getting them from time to time in mentor roulette. We managed to clear Shiva with 10 minutes left and 3 or 4 people with full-exp. Ramuh was a disaster, because guess what: people didnt knew how to deal with mechanis and didnt wanted to learn. Or couldnt understand english. GKMM was actually okay - again with 4 people knowing the fight.

You want to do this with like minded individuals - but please keep in mind that it wouldnt only be those like minded, skilled individuals queuing up for it! It would also be that healer that I had to raise like 8 times during Nidhogg NM because they didnt moved out of the AoEs. It would be the bard not using WM and the DRK without provoke.
And people would actually expect to clear the fight - its in DF, so it should be an easy clear, right?
Plus: IF you get a good party for once, get some decent practice in but fail to beat it because time's up, you get kicked out and thrown in with (potentially) completly new people who just unlocked the fight and know nothing about it.

So, yeah, you're idea would be nice if the world would be full of like minded individuals. But thats not the case... so yeah, I believe this would only hurt. Adding them to RF seems to be the better idea.

(oh and about "why unlock them later and not straight away? It doesnt make a difference?" - it does: better gear, mechanics already figured out and I suppose you would be surprised how many people who have actually cleared such fights hop into DF to try their luck or help out - or have at least some exp from former exp-groups)

I'm sorry I don't agree with any of your points.

I could put up a LP, and shitters could join that just as easily as they could a df.

The worst absolute worst thing that could happen is you wipe a few times, and the group disbands. So I say again, what would it hurt?

In PF/on your server you can kick out the people that suck, get someone new in, try again without "much" lost, because you can keep the good guys.
In DF you lose ALL progress. And THAT is what hurts. Frustration is a lot higher here, what leads to "Oh, I cant beat this in DF, it has to be nerfed!" (also, with server-people you can go in again if your time is up)

Also the chance to get bad people is higher in DF than in PF (or as in: going in with a group of like minded individuals). And as I already said: the devs are balancing content that goes straight into DF differently from content that doesnt. Look at Alexander NM and Savage! Look at Seph NM and EX! We get easier versions of those fights straight to Df so everyone can see and beat them. And then we get more difficult fights that are supposed to be dealt with in a skilled group and dont have that much room for error.
by your logic we could put savage raids into DF too...

The absolute worst that can happen is NOT wipe&disband.
Its kicking people. Its waiting 20 minutes for the duty to pop, only to find yourself with dps that barely has the ilvl, healers not being able to heal, tanks without provoke... Its people not understanding mechanics etc. etc.
Yes, all that CAN happen with a PF aswell, but its less likely. And, I'll repeat again: if its not in DF people are less likely to cry for a nerf because they can PICK with whom they go in. If one person cant make it in DF, the seven others are doomed aswell - great, disband, wait again, disband, wait... thats what you want? To practice the first phase to wipe at adds again? (Just do Nidhogg NM for a while and try to help people with their clear for the story...)

The design of a fight for a more or less static group and something that goes straight to DF is different. As in: Assuming a static group allows it to make fights harder and less forgiving.

(and just because I got Odin in mentor roulette earlier and we didnt managed to clear it because lack of dps&heals, I dare you to queue for the old Ex-primals in DF and see what happens... Try Ramuh, Levi and Titan especially!)

Qued for Titan ex two weeks ago and we cleared after one wipe. Not typical but still, it happened.

I think you need to give the community a bit more credit.

If you're in need of a 235 weapon, may I suggest running Palace of the Dead? That one's already in DF and will get you a 235 weapon. :) I know it's not the result you're looking for, but still an option.

As others have said before, the newest primals don't get added to DF until the patch after they're released. It's how it's always been and I doubt it'll change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BushWookie

I could put up a LP, and shitters could join that just as easily as they could a df.

---

The Differance between the two methods is party control. PF, I can manage the ilvl, manage the players i let in, and manage the ones who get to stay if were wiping. I can easily replace the bad apples and make sure they can't rejoin by blacklisting. There are many reasons NOT to have it in DF.

I feel like duty finder is one of the best learning tools. You get a group of half noobs and half veterans, as long as the veterans aren't assholes everyone can learn and clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveoiscool

I feel like duty finder is one of the best learning tools. You get a group of half noobs and half veterans, as long as the veterans aren't assholes everyone can learn and clear.

---

Lol if you are lucky. More likely to be 7 noobs and you