DRK as Warrior of Light - What is your reasoning

Hi all. Not sure if this is the correct forum. Anyways, here we go.

So I've been thinking about the DRK being the WoL and it seems a bit contradictory. I main a DRK and it's been one of my fave FF classes since FFIV (FFII when I played it in the 90s). I still struggle a bit with reconciling the fact that we draw power from the abyss while we are the WoL. So I was curious as to how others saw that fact and what their conclusions are.

The way I think of it, it's the "darkness inside everyone". Despite being the chosen of Hydaelyn, we still have emotions and feelings that we hold back and feed the darkness.

I also think that the abyss that Sidurgu refers to is not the same as the Void from where the Ascians come from, so that helps. It's more of a metaphorical thing, almost in the Nietzschean sense.

I don't RP or anything, but I like my characters to be consistent with in-game lore, so I'm looking forward to any insight you might provide.

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Originally Posted by jedidotflow

The way I think of it, it's the "darkness inside everyone". Despite being the chosen of Hydaelyn, we still have emotions and feelings that we hold back and feed the darkness.

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I remember a thread that had this topic touched; think this was the general conclusion. I mean, look at the DRK 30-50 quests; Fray *is* the part of us we repress. Not something else, part of us.

Cilia? You there?

It's a little harder to pin down when you're running around as a Warrior of Light, but darkness isn't equated to "evil." It's volatile, dangerous, and extremely attractive as a power source to megalomaniacs, but not "evil" in and of itself.

Being a Dark Knight just means tapping into a power source that most people back away from for whatever personal reasons. It's like owning a gun. You can exceed your human limitations by using it, but there's nothing inherently evil about a contained combustion reaction propelling a piece of metal through a tube.

It's also important to note that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are personifications of Light and Dark respectively, but neither they nor their servants can claim individual responsibility for all the Good or Evil in the world. You're using power that many attribute to Zodiark, but not drawing it directly from him.

Not that I don't want to eventually see Slayers-type Black Magic, where spells actually channel the power and consciousness of specific Demon Lords, with caveats like you can't damage Shabranigdu with his own power (unless he's feeling especially nihilistic). We just don't have it yet.

What Fenral said can also be applied to the other Jobs. Black Mages channel powers of the Void, while Summoners call upon Primal Powers and both them and Scholars is diseased magics. The Azure Dragoon is empowered by the Eye of Nidhogg, or in other terms, the Malice Striker, and a Dragon of pure wrath. All of which can be said to be evil, despite this we are still the Warrior of Light. Defender of the Realm and Spokenkind's best chance for survival against the more metaphysical foes like the Primals and Ascians.

Likewise, Of the Warriors of Darkness, two of which, Blaenherz and the Lalafell, are Classes that are usually seen as "Good", Paladin and White Mage. And the Heaven's Ward likewise seem more like Paladins then the actual Paladins (in the devotion to their religion sense). Despite this they are still evil (so far) and King Thordian and Alexander are light-aspected Primals (I think). Its not the Weapon/Magic/Power, but how you use it.

Sorry, your unfriendly neighborhood Dork Dark Knight went out for a night on the town! Need to distract myself from the factory I work at getting shut down for 2 months somehow...

Long story short: it requires understanding the difference between "your darkness" and "the Dark."

The power you wield as a DRK is simply "your darkness." It's an inherent part of your being, born from your pain and suffering. Most people turn away from their darkness - simply looking at your dark and ugly side is no easy thing to do, let alone accepting it as a part of you. That "darkness" isn't evil or born from malign sources - it's simply you, a part of yourself you normally keep hidden and locked away (even from yourself) because you don't like what it says about you. Using that power simply requires the courage to face yourself and the self-awareness to recognize that "darkness" as a part of you, while simultaneously having the strength of heart not to let it control you. (You later learn that strength comes from love, meaning it's not so much "darkness" as it is wielding your own heart as a weapon more or less literally. Given there is darkness in every heart, however... not acknowledging your darkness while doing so could naturally be a bad thing.)

Conversely, "the Dark" is Zodiark's power, typically used by the Ascians to bring ruin and death. Anathema to all things on Hydaelyn, not just shunned for being something unpleasant to look at.

That's the simplest way I can think of to explain it.

The DRK quest to 50 made me really want to watch Fight Club. IDK why

I guess it's how they use that darkness. I was always one to believe that DRK'S in FF are anti-hero's who use darkness as a tool to defeat evil, if you look at Cecil Harvey (probably the most famous DRK in the FF series) from FF4 he needed the holy sword in order to succeed against evil so he had to become a paladin, so in some ways the FF series acknowledges that darkness can not defeat evil, that only holy light can defeat evil. Not to play devil's advocate

What a coincidence that this thread pops up just after I finished my Drk50 quest. :D

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

The DRK quest to 50 made me really want to watch Fight Club.

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I'm not surprised. ;)

Tyler Durden is to the "everyman" what Fray is to the Warrior of Light: the Ubermensch shorn of the social morals that hold him back from achieving his full potential.

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Originally Posted by jedidotflow

So I've been thinking about the DRK being the WoL and it seems a bit contradictory... I still struggle a bit with reconciling the fact that we draw power from the abyss while we are the WoL. So I was curious as to how others saw that fact and what their conclusions are.

I also think that the abyss that Sidurgu refers to is not the same as the Void from where the Ascians come from, so that helps. It's more of a metaphorical thing, almost in the Nietzschean sense.

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As Cilia explained, the "darkside" is not evil per se, nor is the Void itself. It's the pain, suffering and resentment that the WoL has suppressed within himself, in a heroic act of self-sacrifice. It's also a reference to the WoL's repressed desire to be free from the burden of being the people's champion — an unspoken wish to be rid of obligations to others, and focus instead on his own goals.

These are deep-seated emotions that have been bottled up inside for so long, that once they find an outlet, they explode with ferocious force. That, at least, is how I interpret the "darkside" in the context of FFXIV.

In a way, the "darkside" is similar to the "inner beast" that warriors tap for their powers. It's all about channelling the WoL's less genteel emotions.

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Originally Posted by jedidotflow

I don't RP or anything, but I like my characters to be consistent with in-game lore, so I'm looking forward to any insight you might provide.

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Now that I've finally unlocked Drk50, I can easily see why the Drk30 to 50 storyline has been so popular with many players. I also wouldn't be surprised if it's in fact S-E's response to feedback that the WoL is too much of a goody two-shoes. So, from a lore perspective, the Dark Knight is definitely a godsend to role-players who long to take on the persona of a "flawed" hero.

From a broader perspective, the Dark Knight's quest line is probably the closest one in tone to the overall Heavensward story, where major characters like Ysayle, Estinien and Alphinaud have had to grapple with their inner demons. Being a dark knight, then, also allows the WoL to live out his own demons.

I don't think it's a coincidence, for example, that there's a growing awareness among other characters, of just how much the WoL is taken for granted. It's become an inside joke of sorts that the WoL would stoically shoulder any responsibilty, no matter how menial or onerous. Well, by role-playing as a dark knight, you don't have to be a Gary Stu or Mary Sue any more! You have a valid, in-game reason to go Fight Club on any person who pisses you off!

Eorzeans have more reasons now to fear soap! :D

I think it makes perfect sense actually, and is one of the most relevant quests to the WoL in the game. When you first become a dark knight you are already the WoL and the events of 2.55 have already happened. The DRK questline shows weakness in the WoL emotionally (in a very fight club manner, as others have said). The WoL begins questioning if those around them really appreciate them and if it is all worth it, and in the end they reconcile the darkness and use it to enhance their strength, and use it for good.

Never really thought of that distinction between inner darkness and the Dark as clearly as you did. Thanks! This is of great help.

I see what you mean. Do note that I don't think of each in terms of good and evil, but more like opposing forces.

Fantastic points regarding the other classes!

Magic in general is evil sorcery so WHM and SCH are in the same category as using evil. Oh and SMN too conjuring up minions and AST some Star Zodiac stuff

the only non magic class is DRG(before 3.0). Maybe that's why the DRG is hated by the world because he doesn't use magic to fight the primal's and gets laughed at as the lolDRG when he's the first to die. He doesn't have magic to protect him just his spear and armor a true Eorzean hero.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/bbeebefa6...zgcuo1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Black Mages channel powers of the Void.

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Just a correction. Black magic as far as the player character is concerned does not deal with the void, rather it is using the surrounding aether to power your spells and make them more destructive. Though a lot of NPC black mages seem drawn to summoning voidsent, at the moment it seems to be more that it is a handy source of outside power to use and less something that is intrinsically linked.

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Originally Posted by Shadotterdan

Just a correction. Black magic as far as the player character is concerned does not deal with the void, rather it is using the surrounding aether to power your spells and make them more destructive. Though a lot of NPC black mages seem drawn to summoning voidsent, at the moment it seems to be more that it is a handy source of outside power to use and less something that is intrinsically linked.

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Its hard to say; is Black Magic a subset of Void Magic, or is Void Magic a subset of Black Magic?

The Mhach were Void Mages, and from them we got the Black Magic we use now (and Void Magic). Do we know which actually came first?

Many of the above, have made excellent points already, but I have always felt it's somewhat easier than all that. We all have someone/ something we would do anything for, a reason we would gladly put our hands into flames knowing full well we will burn, but we'll make sure that thing is safe, protected. Our morals and ideals need not be explained or understood by anyone else, we don't do what we do for accolades or fame. By the use of our power we can root out evil, the vile and false, our beginning quest fairly screams this fact. Our final guest (or was level 58?) also alludes to this, we are not evil, we are reactionary, when harm and hurt come to those we protect we engage with extreme prejudice and will use even damned magicks to see it done.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackKnight

The question wasn't why, but how. Dark / Void magic like the kind we use is often assumed to be evil because it's calling on the power of Zodiark or the Void (Hell).

DRK's power doesn't come from either. Rather, it comes from their shadow, embodied by "Fray" in the 30-50 line. Accepting that shadow, both its good and bad points, is the key to mastering the power of "darkness" - hence why I consider the "dark arts" not so much dark as it is wielding your own heart as a weapon.

Power depends on who uses it. The Abyss is what is used for the darker emotons and guiding purpose the DRK uses to fuel their techniques.

From a roleplay perspective, I welcome the contradiction. When you are famous and an adventurer, you can feel quite fettered in what you want and can do. A lack of agency when even the gods pin their ambitions and hopes on you, or rather, your role as "The Warrior of Light".
DRK, then , is not only Kallera's outlet, but something to call her own; to do right not out of lofty destiny or patriotism, but from desire and passion. To fight as herself, for herself.
But that's how I see it as my character. I'm sure there are other ways to view DRK from a roleplay perspective.

For me, the fact I executed the Archbishop after he declared himself God King seemed like all the justification a Warrior of Light needs to be the Dark Knight.

Dark Knight is all about sacrifice to help the others. In the rest of the franchise that is even more tangible, since you literally sacrifice HP to kill your enemies faster.