Raiding as AST

Hi fellows healers,

Here is a post where i would like you to give me advices or your opinion on my question: Is AST a good healer for doing savage content ?

First of all, i want to excuse me if my english ain't that good, it's not a language i master so please, be patient ^^

Here is my story:
I switched from NIN to AST a few weeks ago , i discover the healer role and love it, i decided to go for the AST because i love the "support way" he has with his buffs and i love all the lore and weapons of this job.

So, let's get back to the main post, im actually on niddhog EX phase 4 (left it at 2% and 3% so he will be down in a few more tries) after that, we're gonna go for some savage content, Midas and the 3.4 new progression.

But here is the thing that makes me hesitating: we have no SCH, im paired with a WHM as co-healer.
Basically for niddhog' we've no problem since both our regen spells can stack, but for a lot of people not having a SCH in a raid/progression is a very bad thing, because, as you main know SCH is extremely powerfull.

We can't do a comparison between N.ASt (stance that i love to play, and will probably play in Savage) and SCH.

But do you guys think or know people that are raiding with a AST/WHM pair ?
My static is really cool and don't mind raiding without a SCH but im scared to not be as efficient as a SCH would be.

Any advice or opinions ?

Thanks fellows ! :cool:

Unfortunately, you won't be able to be as efficient as a scholar cause you don't have the same toolkit.

In Nocturnal Sec, you have one HoT but you need to use Collective Unconscious that you may need for damage mitigation more than the HoT it gives (while scholar can use Sacred Soil and Whispering Dawn).
But it's up to you to know when to use it. The HoT is really powerful and it's always good to use Celestial Opposition to increase the duration.

Also, always use Disable for Tank Buster or strong aoe damages. It's a short CD and can be stack with Virus.

Shields have basically more potency than scholar, due to the fact that he has no pet to help. For this point, it won't be a problem.
Maybe using Bole on the group or the tank could be a way to deal more damages mitigation, but...do we really choose an astrologian on this purpose?(I mean using dps buff is better)
Again,it's up to you.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

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I understand your, yet im more familiar with the N.AST toolkit then the SCH. Knowing the fight and acting in consequnces is a proper healer thing and not a specific one, for examples, im always preparing my cards on what is going up next.

My real questions, i probably should edit the first post is: In your opinion is possible to clear some savage content without a SCH ?

I've seen a lot of posts on the forum and on reddit saying that you can play WHM/SCH or AST/SCH easily so the SCH looks like a top priority for a lot of raiders.

It's possible to clear any raid content with any combination of jobs. Of course some are preferred or some may make things a bit easier, however currently there are no jobs that are not Savage able. SCH has great DPS and great mitigation but AST has it's own perks. Just enjoy the game and enjoy the progression.

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Originally Posted by Aurelle_Delacroix

It's possible to clear any raid content with any combination of jobs. Of course some are preferred or some may make things a bit easier, however currently there are no jobs that are not Savage able. SCH has great DPS and great mitigation but AST has it's own perks. Just enjoy the game and enjoy the progression.

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That's the whole point, i enjoy and love playing AST and my static don't asked me to switch to SCH but i want to do the things properly to have some progress with my friends !
Thanks for your reply anyway ! :)

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Originally Posted by Aurelle_Delacroix

It's possible to clear any raid content with any combination of jobs.

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Eh, not really, if you look at the clear rates for groups in Midas Savage on FFLogs. Last time I checked, there are a grand total of 6 (SIX) groups with a N.AST who have cleared A8s. Only two of those were N.AST mains (the others were SCHs or WHMs doing it on N.AST for funnsies after having it on farm), and only one did it before 3.3 (i.e., when the buffs horrible bandaid to Nocturnal happened). For another job combination that's not viable, look at clear rates for DRK/PLD tank combos - there are literally zero clears of A8s with this combination on FFLogs.

Yes, you can clear the early Savage turns with WHM/AST, but it's still a horrible combination due to many factors, one of which being that Diurnal AST is the objectively superior choice even within the job. We don't even have to start why N.AST can't compare with SCH.

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Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

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Thanks for your reply, i know that just a few people are playing as N.AST and i also know that in potency the N.Ast is inferior to the SCH or the D.Ast, im not much into the fflogs observation, can you give a link that see the downs ?

As i said, we're not on A8S we didn't even started A5S, we went thougth a lot of roster changes and will see if we can get a real static for a few months ^^
Anyway thanks for your reply and to add something, im not against changing to SCH for some fights, but i do prefer the AST gameplay ^^

Crit adlo + deploy is such a mana saving combi that everyone like it

But noct ast is not that bad
It only require a good lnowledge of the fight and knowing all skills
Because it require all the toolkit to be on par or near the sch + fairy

Remember that a noct ast easily solo heal the A5S where sch and whm will struggle more
But it's a minor thing where Noct ast slay the house down

...

In term of potency outside crit the noct ast Beat the sch

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

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Hey fellow AST friend, as i said on the french part of the forum with you, i do agree that the AST ain't anymore the bad healer he used to be. Nowadays he is a really good healer and have obviously some advantages with his toolkit.
Don't misundertand me, i just wanted more opinions than the 2 responses i had on the french forum, i will contact you IG asap for some advices ^_^

I'm paired with an AST. In A5/7 and 8 I'm whitemage. In A6 I play SCH (I decided this swap pre nerf and later I didn't wanted to change a running system).

Currently we are working to get everyone alive into the 2nd robot phase in A8S. Some trouble with emnity, jump target not enough far away and mega beam :)

I'm looking forward to it, that we will finish it in this combination.

BTW: In A7S he is in dinural. HoTs are more useful in this turn than shields.

But I would hardly recommend to have a summoner, when no scholar is in the party (Virus+/Eye).

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

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Thanks ! That's exactly our composition actually, WHM/AST/SMN/BLM/BRD/DRG/PLD/WAR !
To come back to something you said, i do prefer the N.ACT but obviously i will adapt my stance to the fight, i just need some experience and turns to find the best solution !
For example im playing in Diurnal stance in Niddhog', i prefered the regen for all the damages niddhog puts on the whole party !

I honestly do not know how ASTs deal with main healing without cure III in A6S and A8S. I know it's possible, but it is a lot harder.

AST is fine for A5S and A7S and I play them there, but Cure III is just too good and I have to use white mage on 6 and 8 to eliminate the risk of people randomly dying.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Thanks ! That's exactly our composition actually, WHM/AST/SMN/BLM/BRD/DRG/PLD/WAR !
To come back to something you said, i do prefer the N.ACT but obviously i will adapt my stance to the fight, i just need some experience and turns to find the best solution !
For example im playing in Diurnal stance in Niddhog', i prefered the regen for all the damages niddhog puts on the whole party !

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If you already have a white mage, you should be noct in nidhogg. You can do double regen, but the shields help tremendously on tanks in add phase and shielding the group for akh morn.

There is no difficult fight in the game where double regens is viable. It can be done, but I wouldn't.

Did the 3.3 buff to noc shields not help enough?

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Originally Posted by Bdyer

Did the 3.3 buff to noc shields not help enough?

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The thing that bandaid did was just made astro better in shields. The sch still is just vastly more flexible than the astro.

That being said,astro isn't bad it's just nocturnal astro/whm is the subpar combo in comparison to whm/sch and di astro/sch. This is mainly because the sch has a lot of versatility compared to the other two .

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Thanks for your reply, i know that just a few people are playing as N.AST and i also know that in potency the N.Ast is inferior to the SCH or the D.Ast, im not much into the fflogs observation, can you give a link that see the downs ?

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https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/10#b...ec=Astrologian

These are all ASTs who have cleared A8s in a WHM/AST combo. It's actually up to 8 people now, and I'm too lazy to go through all the logs again to see who mains N.AST and who doesn't, but it's still a very strong indicator of how broken N.AST currently is, especially since D.AST is doing fine in terms of clears (when partnered with a SCH).

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

The thing that bandaid did was just made astro better in shields.

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Even this is debatable because a large reason why SCH is so good at shielding is Deployment Tactics. A N.AST has nothing that can equal even a non-crit, properly deployed Adlo¹, and with most fights being structured the way they are, this makes SCH shielding still vastly superior to N.AST.

¹ "Properly deployed" refers to said Adlo being cast on a WAR in Defiance with Convalescence up. Mantra, Fey Illumination, and/or Dissipation are optional but highly increase the absurdity of the resulting shield.

I've done a lot of Nidhogg Ex clears as Noct AST. There was always people in my linkshells that were White Mage only, and I despise the double WHM comp. There isn't any advantage in having to heal more damage. All it takes is a few res sickness and now you have less options to recover because of no mitigation. AB/Adlo laughs in the face of Stoneskin. Maybe you have no Summoner or one that doesn't even Virus. In a less error run it won't matter too much, but not everyone is perfect either.

Having shields up is so good for the towers phase, and before Akh Morn. AB is so good getting on the tether tanks while on the move too, or anyone with sickness to survive heavy damage. Plus you have Disable and CU mitigation options for each one.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I honestly do not know how ASTs deal with main healing without cure III in A6S and A8S. I know it's possible, but it is a lot harder.

AST is fine for A5S and A7S and I play them there, but Cure III is just too good and I have to use white mage on 6 and 8 to eliminate the risk of people randomly dying.

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It is not a lot harder on D.AST. Cure III shouldn't be the sole reason to consider otherwise, you just do things differently. AST 20% mitigation with Disable/CU that WHM doesn't have is something to also consider great for Plasmas and J-Kick progression.

CU is good to use when stacking for Jammer or Water. Plus you have Synastry for at-least one rotation to AoE/spot heal targets as-needed and the tank hit.

Thanks for your replies everyone, going to try running A6S and the others if we clear the A6S and will see if switching to SCH for some fights makes it easier.
Anyway, as some people, i will try as AST cause i do love this gameplay and maybe switch to SCH if needed but .... meh feel i won't be abble to play SCH decently.

Diurnal AST+whm is possible on nidhogg but i do agree with Foxy
Having noct ast with shield to soak in some damage is priceless

Becauseit allow squishy dps to survive at least 1 more akh morn by artificially adds some hp while waiting for the cure 3 to happends
After trying both
Shield are easier and allow less stress in battle (but more mana consuming than HoT)

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Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

It's actually up to 8 people now

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Interesting. So if we beat it in our current combination we are in something like a Top 10 :D

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I honestly do not know how ASTs deal with main healing without cure III in A6S and A8S. I know it's possible, but it is a lot harder.

AST is fine for A5S and A7S and I play them there, but Cure III is just too good and I have to use white mage on 6 and 8 to eliminate the risk of people randomly dying
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C3 is a luxury more than anything in a6. Swindler is the only fight where anything more than medica 2 is needed. Brawler orb phase is another but no one will be stacked enough to make C3 usable. Even on swindler, most 50th percentile + groups skip the last bioarithmeticks if not the entire set altogether. As for the bio before the gunners appear, your SCH is kind of heartless if he doesn't at least chuck you an indom to help. D:

A8 is a different story as early in progression I was crying to heal with a WHM, especially in intermission 1. But after my cohealer sorted out disable and CU timings, suddenly we started only taking 12k dmg from jkicks. Jwaves were still sketchy to heal through, but that was mainly because we didn't optimize mantra, fey illumination usage etc.

As someone said before, any combination is good enough to clear content, though I play scholar since it's very useful with his buffs/debuffs to mitigate, cleared a8s with both whm/sch and ast/sch, don't know how whm/ast would handle it though, but with a good group, anything is possible so don't let that discourage you and play whatever you want.

Mmm i mean a heal burst with a potency of 300 or 250 or more seconds like fifthteen secs

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Originally Posted by Xtilo_hp

Mmm i mean a heal burst with a potency of 300 or 250 or more seconds like fifthteen secs

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It's called synastrie you're welcome XD

CO is already good
The fxt that it extend you're mana regen and HoT/buff is already powerful

Finally done. Hardest point in A8S was to work around the missing deployment tactics and fey covenant during needles.

But now we can look forward to Noct AST changes and finally they test the new raid with WHM + AST (so it will be good doable with WMH+AST and XXX+SCH will be OP).

I have not ever seen a nocturnal POV around so I figured I would upload to encourage others to try the role!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUMlEGydCLs

Please ignore my fat fingered max potion at the start...
Az was hit for 17,119 and died because server ticks yay! Forgive me :( was first time healing j-waves on nocturnal.. and I'm fairly certain we could have survived one more wave too with disable, mantra, potion, and synastry asp helios.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/df1gbtL47jHMpDhW
I know Az and I both could tighten up our dps too especially during gavel and final phase. While noct may not be able to get the numbers as a scholar is capable of due to mitigation and regen that doesn't require leaving cleric stance, nocturnal can provide high levels of support for the party and still manage to put out a fair amount of damage, while allowing their co healer to do achieve competitive damage as well.
Honestly, nocturnal has been in a fine spot ever since they buffed the nocturnal field potency.
After having healed this on both diurnal and noct, I can say I had a hell of a lot more fun on the latter. A big shout out to our team for even being open to the composition!



Come 3.4 there will be no debate surrounding nocturnal's viability in any content. I hope you don't let the stigma behind the class keep you from playing the role you want!
Hope to see more Noct popping up on various servers... But just remember you were Noct before it was cool.

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Originally Posted by Anchored0wl

I can say I had a hell of a lot more fun on the latter.

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I can confirm this. The feeling was special to work though this fight with the "worst" possible healer combination. But we didn't reached the point where I would say "Ok. We will not get it down. I switch to SCH" and healing was not the issue, that caused our progress taking this long (15 weeks were way to much).

My Noct AST potato was also happy that I believed in him till the end :D