MY Mentor system issue and fix

Irrelevant now.

And they say veteran players are the mean ones. Gotta love the newer players!

calls people crybabies yet the whole post is whining gotta love it.

you can bypass the 1k limit by editing your post after writting it.
Or wriite it, mark everything ->ctrl+c, shorten it and post, then edit it and paste everything into the edit field. voila up to a quadrillion characters^^ (actually seems to be endless)

For the tutor roulette: no idea never used it before neither as mentor nor as mentee but why give them reward at all? I know enough people who really like to teach new guys as long as the new guys want to be teached. With all this rewards handed out left and right we only get these people we definitly don't want to be mentors as mentors....

As I've said in another thread on a similar topic, I won't help unless we wipe and/or you ask for help. I learn as I go, so even if there were another mentor I'd only ask for help if I felt totally lost on something. In fact, I've been shit on for giving advice. Someone didn't believe me when I explained Titan EX mechanics even after I copied and pasted them from the Wiki.

Also, it's really not that difficult to get mentor status. You only have to do those requirements one time (like the aforementioned Titan EX, I can't do that synced. That's just how I am.) to get mentor status. Don't expect me to know everything because I'm a mentor.

If I were in it for the tomes I'd do mentor roulette every day. I think I've done it maybe a couple of times. I genuinely want to help people who want to be helped. I can't help you if you don't speak up or don't want to listen to what I have to say.

To address your fix, what if someone was REALLY good? Like, the tank did an amazing job? Being a WHM, I give my commendations to those outstanding people or a DPS I thought was doing well. Just because I didn't get a commendation that doesn't mean I "facerolled" it. It means someone deserved it more. What if there are multiple mentors in a duty?

You realise that isn't a fix whatsoever right?

I got Titan Ex for my Mentor roulette a few weeks ago. 6 people were new. I stayed until 3 minutes were left, helped them out, gave them tips, and showed them the mechanics. We cleared it and many thanked me.

How many commendations did I get? 1. Not everyone is going to commend you just because you did a good job. Most people left that duty within 10 seconds of completing it because they were fed up, although they said thank you at the time of me helping.

This will solve absolutely nothing and you haven't thought this through at all.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

I got my Mentor roulette a few weeks ago. 6 people were new. I helped them out, gave them tips, and showed them the mechanics. We cleared it and [...] how many commendations did I get? 1. [...] Most people left that duty within 10 seconds.

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This sum up pretty much every of my mentor roulettes. Also i want to add; i can't tell you how many times ( mentor roulette or not ) i have been told to shut up simply because i was giving advices to 1st timers and said players got offended by it. Or how i don't even get time to explain because someone didn't wait before pulling.

How about fixing that first? You guys can't expect mentors to roll in and feed you informations when all they get is ungrateful people, at best. Many mentors get discouraged to even try to give advices because they know they won't get thanked for it appropriately ( thanking in the chat and commendations ), or they will be told to shut up.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

And they say veteran players are the mean ones. Gotta love the newer players!

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Implying that there are not veteran players who are just as bad are we? Just do a MSQ roulette and you'll see more than enough. lol

1. Change commendations: When you give a commendation you are given currency dependent on your level. 1-49 you are given poe. 50-59 eso & 60 Lore.
2. Invalidate all current mentors. To become a mentor of either War, Medical, Defense, Land or Hand you must fully finish a randomized quiz perfectly. You are capable of obtaining all Mentor status on 1 character.
* To be applicable for a War, Medical or Defense mentor licence you must have a role in that class level 60 , 250 commendations WHILE USING THAT ROLE* And finished the main core story up to 3.0.
**Land mentors and Hand can obtain their licence via the current method placed. No real issues here that I can tell.
3. Prioritize Mentors that que for the mentor que by Type, AND commendations. If people wanna go fast and get good ques they will need to work for more commendations.

Problem is people aren't as inclined to give comms to DPS. So if they made it you had to be given comms you'd have people begging for comms at the end of dungeons, lol.

Not that people don't already do this.

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Originally Posted by Lokier

Problem is people aren't as inclined to give comms to DPS. So if they made it you had to be given comms you'd have people begging for comms at the end of dungeons, lol.

Not that people don't already do this.

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I agree this is no solution but I give comms to the DPS all the time if they do a good job.

Not a perfect solution, But nothing ever is outside of Japan. Because the community loves to break the game and get the easiest rewards possible as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by Kurika

**Land mentors and Hand can obtain their licence via the current method placed. No real issues here that I can tell.

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I gotta admit, despite of having the requirement for "Trade Mentor" i have no idea how the favor system works, and i only recently grasped the idea of aetherial reduction thru a guide i found somewhere I haven't even traded any of the red script thingy whatsoever..

I thought that fix was supposed to fix things, not break them even more.
The common practice in this game is to give most of the commendations to tanks, some to healers and only a few people give commendations to DPSes.

Why would I even bother coming as a DPS if I knew the change I will get a reward is 1:5?

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Originally Posted by Kurika

1. Change commendations: When you give a commendation you are given currency dependent on your level. 1-49 you are given poe. 50-59 eso & 60 Lore.
2. Invalidate all current mentors. To become a mentor of either War, Medical, Defense, Land or Hand you must fully finish a randomized quiz perfectly. You are capable of obtaining all Mentor status on 1 character.
* To be applicable for a War, Medical or Defense mentor licence you must have a role in that class level 60 , 250 commendations WHILE USING THAT ROLE* And finished the main core story up to 3.0.
**Land mentors and Hand can obtain their licence via the current method placed. No real issues here that I can tell.
3. Prioritize Mentors that que for the mentor que by Type, AND commendations. If people wanna go fast and get good ques they will need to work for more commendations.

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lol smh you really need to get outside more.
horrible idea including the op suggestion too

There is no need for a 'solution' in the first place. Of course the mentor system was implemented poorly, but it seems it's normal players that have more of a problem with the system than mentors themselves, usually because they came into contact with one or two bad mentors.

Mentors are people too. Most of us don't know every single mechanic to every single fight and we're certainly not obligated to be your personal guide. As I said, I've helped so many times and explained fights down to the last mechanic and sometimes barely got a thank you. Other times I've been told to 'stop preaching' because I explained a fight we wiped on 5 times.

Players expect so much of mentors and are now trying to set their own rules to make sure we play to their standards, yet those same people insult mentors and give them grief when they don't like being mentored. If it smells bad everywhere, maybe look under your own foot.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

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I was "mentored" to a couple of days ago by a lalafell in PoTD, I asked to save rage till floor 45+ due to harder enemies spawning around then and he basically said "LOL! Nope! It's all the same" to which I said "Well those guys with coffins attached to them and those floating nightmare guys certainly do" and the response was "U know nothing. I've done this for 5 weapons and know it in and out..." blah blah blah. We wiped floor 47 because of the coffin dudes -_-

I dread to think what people like this are like with newbies.

The system itself is not required imo and does nothing to help new people that we weren't doing before it was implemented. It was a thankless job then and it's a thankless job now, expecting it to be different because you have a crown will never be reality.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

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I don't expect it to be different. Some mentors are bad, I get it. This doesn't mean normal players are never rude to mentors either though. I could help as much as I possibly could and someone could still treat me like crap, the same as before anyone had a crown.

My point is that it's not up to those same people whether I get my reward for helping or not. Either give mentors the bonus like they are doing or remove it altogether, none of this 'you must have a commendation or no reward' crap. I'm not going to be judged by someone who doesn't even want my help, and even if they did, might not even commend me.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

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Oh I agree it's both sides and the op's solution isn't a good idea.

I'd just rather see the system be gone entirely because I cannot think of one thing it has changed neither how it would offer anything people don't do already. Personally I would never even put myself up for mentor status as it's just a label people can use to say "well mentor's are [insert insult here]", it's like giving youself a sprout again but with more expectation (good and bad).

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

What is your idea then? Rather than people just insulting or saying it won't work actually add something? because as this system is now its pretty much a glorified icon.

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You made the thread about the mentor system - nobody is obligated to come up with a solution for you because you think the current system is a problem. We're commenting on your suggestion because that's what's in the thread, and it isn't a good idea. Leave it as it is or remove it altogether.

How about a PF incentive? Now this isn't going to be fully though out so bear with me here.

So we all know mentor's should be there to help newbies (so in this games case sprouts), how about an incentive for vets to create PF clear groups specifically for sprout (or bonus) characters. After a certain amount of clears with say 4 sprout/bonus players then the vets gain mentor status with fitting rewards to show their investment.

This way you can have 4 mentors and 4 news in a group and everyone gets something, new players get their clears and vets who want to help out but have no incentive to do so can also get their reward it would also make them better known among their server. It also helps with all the "no bonus" parties we see in PF for old content and it's better than DF because everyone involved has to deal with people on their own server. Selling runs would also be phased out and FC's can easily do something like this together.

Thoughts?

I'm not going to supply unrequested information. I will happily provide any and all details if asked, but I'd hate to get slammed with information on my first run of something, so I treat others how I'd like to be treated.

Silently doing my job is in itself an extremely helpful way to show others how the job can be done. Even if it's just so they don't need to worry about me, and can focus on their own struggles.

Mentors are only as good as the people they're mentoring. Can't fix people who can't grasp mechanics no matter how much you explain the fight. Can't help people as well who go into a fight completely blind. I've done it but it's not pretty.

I've taken a completely fresh group through both mog ex and Levi ex. I only got about half the comms both times. People are stingy with comms. Locking credit behind comms is foolish.

What they should do instead is make the reward even better for completing an ex in mentor roulette. Or don't. The system is fine. People are the ones messing it up.

I was doing the Mentor roulette on my DPS and as always when I am being a Mentor, I:

1. Explain the fights
2. Give tips on skills if needed.
3. Make sure the encounter is fun for the newcomers.
4. All the other stuff that is part of being a mentor.

I do not do them for the commendation, but I noticed that whenever I do the Mentor Roulette as a DPS, I get 0 amount of commendation. I do the same thing as a Tank or a Healer and I am being showered with commendations. Your suggestion would make it very hard for those with less popular roles to get rewarded with their daily tomes.

On a typical Expert or Trial Roulette I usually get 1-2 commendations on my dps, 2-3 if on tank or healer, so I'm not seeing any tremendous difference. That said, basing whether someone has done a good job on commendations received is ridiculous. Plenty of very good runs end with no one bothering to comm anyone—most bad runs even more so. You'd be more likely to get comms in a run that tries everyone's patience from picking a fight with another angry player or having one picked against you, and just being the guy they less disliked. Save a trial through instruction, you may get zero comms out of spite. Save it through carrying them in a way that's friendly, and obvious yet somehow not blatant, and you get comms.

The main reason I don't like being a mentor through mentor roulette is that I can't check at any later time to see if any of my more general advice was integrated or that the player's performance or enjoyment of his or her playstyle improved, and as such feel pressured to stick to just the most concrete or dungeon specific elements, which basic advice some 15 levels ago would have made obvious anyways and tend to sound more nit-picky, trivial, and generally based more around memorization than improvement.

good god, Titan Ex Synced isn't exactly faceroll lol.

While I've occasionally thought in the past that Mentor Roulette should grant rewards based on Commendations, I've since reconsidered, for the simple fact that far, FAR too many people simply commend the tank by reflex. That works great for me, since I usually Tank for Mentor Roulette, but there are mentors - GOOD mentors - who play other roles, as well.

It should be noted, by the way, that the Tomestone rewards from Mentor Roulette are pitiful. It is unlikely that someone is slapping on Mentor status simply for an extra 30 Esos and 10 Lore. No, the reward that has mentors-in-name-only abusing the system is the two-seater Pegasus mount reward. It was very unfortunate that that was added in this way, as it brought flocks of less-than-helpful Mentors into the mix.

That said, simply because a Mentor is quiet does not indicate that they are one of these. A mentor does not have to be proactive to be a good mentor - and, in fact, many new players APPRECIATE that a Mentor doesn't spell everything out for them ahead of time. When a run is going smoothly, there's no need for a Mentor to say a word (though a friendly greeting at the start of the run and a farewell at the end does help to promote a more positive community atmosphere). If players ask for help, a Mentor should provide it. If a player mentions they're new it could be taken as an indirect way of asking for advice, but it's not a bad idea to ask them if they actually want it before giving it.

I run mentor roulette every single day. I almost always leave with at least one comm - sometimes (like this morning) with all of them.

Don't try to conflate a single data point to a global issue.

Also - not all mentors are going to mentor the same way - which means, not exactly the way you expect them to.

P.s. the mentor tome bonus is trivial to the amount of time spent. If I want to farm tomes quickly and efficiently I'll put a Ravana or Bismarck EX farm together, or just face roll Palace of the Dead for a few hours.

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

Fix? They need to receive at least 1 commendation to receive their mentor roulette tome bonus, Or bust with nothing.

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I avoid Mentor roulette anyways, not really hard to get 1 commendation when you tank. Also this is more of a punishment that will hinder low level dungeons. Not everyone gives commendations, no matter how well you do.

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

I ran a dungeon earlier with a mentor WHM and not a single word was said or question asked except "sword oath" to the tank who was CLEARLY having issues and was new. There is NO excuse to go into your mentor que and faceroll not even asking if someone is new.

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The WHM did their part the smart tank would of realized what they meant if they payed attention to the game and read their skills. Here's my experience with a player before 3.0 in a previous post down below

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Ultima: Tank you need to use Overpower on the group of adds so you don't loose aggro or your healer will take it away from you and we all die.

Tank: Piss off

I'm sorry for imposing my play style on you Mr. Tank

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

Mentors need some form of handicap to prevent them from just going derpface and doing dungeons while on the "mentor" mode for their extra eso and lore.

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Like the other roulettes, you only get the (very tiny) bonus from Mentor roulette once a day. This bonus is 30 esoterics, 10 lore and a small amount of gil so low I can't even remember. After the initial once a day continuing to do the roulette only gives you whatever reward the dungeon/trial/guildhest itself gives you (which for level 50 and below things is poetics only).

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

Fix? They need to receive at least 1 commendation to receive their mentor roulette tome bonus, Or bust with nothing.

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Even the most helpful player in the world wouldn't be guaranteed to get a commendation since it relies on other players. Also if this were to be a thing, you can bet people deliberately wouldn't give a commendation just to spite them, knowing that they need one.

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

There is NO excuse to go into your mentor que and faceroll not even asking if someone is new.

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I can't speak for everyone here, but most of the time when I do the roulette, no one is new. It just puts you in whatever party is waiting for your role.

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Originally Posted by SeranaEclipse

And for all you crybabys wanting to just faceroll your duty and get those extra tomes

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Adding to the first part of my reply, but given the very small bonus (30 eso, 10 lore) and the fact you can end up in synced Extreme Primals (usually what I get...) it's really not something you do to farm tomes...